Homosexuality and Catholic Conversion

[Conor7]

I may regret posting this, as this is a hotly debated topic, but what is the Catholic Church’s stance on a homosexual converting?

I ask because as an Episcopalian, this isn’t so much of a big deal, depending on the parish. Episcopalians, for the most part, expect homosexuals to be celibate or monogamous, or where legal, married. But how does the Catholic Church compare? Could an open homosexual convert, but have to remain celibate? Is the idea of homosexual rehabilitation popular in the Catholic Church as it is in more fundamentalist denominations?

Should I expand my question further? How do all denominations compare?

I ask because we have a fair amount of homosexual couples in my parish. Most of whom are in the choir.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I may regret posting this, as this is a hotly debated topic, but what is the Catholic Church’s stance on a homosexual converting?

I ask because as an Episcopalian, this isn’t so much of a big deal, depending on the parish. Episcopalians, for the most part, expect homosexuals to be celibate or monogamous, or where legal, married. But how does the Catholic Church compare? Could an open homosexual convert, but have to remain celibate? Is the idea of homosexual rehabilitation popular in the Catholic Church as it is in more fundamentalist denominations?

Should I expand my question further? How do all denominations compare?

I ask because we have a fair amount of homosexual couples in my parish. Most of whom are in the choir.

Most Christian denominations that don’t accept homosexuality would probably expect the person to remain celibate. don’t see why Roman Catholicism would be different.

 

[Tyuiop411]

I have never encountered the idea of homosexual rehabilitation in the Catholic Church. But If a homosexual converts we expect them to remain celibate or if they so choose, marry a woman.

 

[Conor7]

I didn’t think to ask this at the time, but what if a married homosexual couple converted? Would they even be allowed? And, would they be expected to get a civil divorce?

 

[Defender1]

I may regret posting this, as this is a hotly debated topic, but what is the Catholic Church’s stance on a homosexual converting?

I ask because as an Episcopalian, this isn’t so much of a big deal, depending on the parish. Episcopalians, for the most part, expect homosexuals to be celibate or monogamous, or where legal, married. But how does the Catholic Church compare? Could an open homosexual convert, but have to remain celibate? Is the idea of homosexual rehabilitation popular in the Catholic Church as it is in more fundamentalist denominations?

Should I expand my question further? How do all denominations compare?

I ask because we have a fair amount of homosexual couples in my parish. Most of whom are in the choir.

The church condemns homosexual actions but accepts homosexuals that are chaste . Meaning you can be homosexual but you can never participate in homosexual acts…

 

[Other_Eric]

People with same-sex attractions are obligated to chastity. Celibacy is the sacrifice by a priest or religious of the good of a family to be in the service of God. This is beautiful and pleasing to Him. Individuals with same-sex attractions can have no valid desire for a family. The only thing they can sacrifice is a thing of abhorrent evil. It has all the moral substance of a child giving up Brussels sprouts for Lent.

People with same-sex attractions are required to avoid the near occasion of sin. That means, in their cases, any contact or association with members of their own gender. It also implies avoiding contact with members of the opposite gender since this may lead to scandal or exacerbate their loathsome condition. Divorce for a “married” couple of this sort is only the beginning. Solitude is the best option until they choose to avail themselves of NARTH and be made into something less dangerous and pathological.

 

[meltzerboy]

People with same-sex attractions are obligated to chastity. Celibacy is the sacrifice by a priest or religious of the good of a family to be in the service of God. This is beautiful and pleasing to Him. Individuals with same-sex attractions can have no valid desire for a family. The only thing they can sacrifice is a thing of abhorrent evil. It has all the moral substance of a child giving up Brussels sprouts for Lent.

People with same-sex attractions are required to avoid the near occasion of sin. That means, in their cases, any contact or association with members of their own gender. It also implies avoiding contact with members of the opposite gender since this may lead to scandal or exacerbate their loathsome condition. Divorce for a “married” couple of this sort is only the beginning. Solitude is the best option until they choose to avail themselves of NARTH and be made into something less dangerous and pathological.

As far as I know, this information is not entirely correct, although it seems you are being mainly sarcastic and mocking in tone and substance. The near-occasion of sin you refer to might be living with a gay roommate if one is gay, but merely associating with other gay people I don’t think would be a problem, and surely associating with members of the opposite sex would not be cause for scandal. The NARTH comment is obviously sarcastic; but just to clarify for the OP, while conversion to heterosexuality is thought by some to be possible, it is certainly not required for any gay person to do so. Chastity, however, is required by the Church for gay people. Finally, I would not call the celibacy of a priest or religious a “sacrifice.” Please understand my comments are mainly for the benefit of the OP, not for the purpose of criticizing your own. If any of my remarks are in error, I ask that others who are more knowledgeable correct them.

 

[Azurestone]

I didn’t think to ask this at the time, but what if a married homosexual couple converted? Would they even be allowed? And, would they be expected to get a civil divorce?

Same-sex individuals can never be married. Despite the word war by progressive thinkers. It is a sanctioned perversion by the state or religious group.

What is marriage? What is it’s purpose? How does it benefit the couple? Society? Humanity? Spirituality of couple?

 

[Bezant]

I may regret posting this, as this is a hotly debated topic, but what is the Catholic Church’s stance on a homosexual converting?

A gay man or lesbian can convert, as long as he / she is prepared to accept the Church’s teachings on homosexuality.

I ask because as an Episcopalian, this isn’t so much of a big deal, depending on the parish. Episcopalians, for the most part, expect homosexuals to be celibate or monogamous, or where legal, married. But how does the Catholic Church compare? Could an open homosexual convert, but have to remain celibate? Is the idea of homosexual rehabilitation popular in the Catholic Church as it is in more fundamentalist denominations?

I don’t think these rehab centres are as common as they’re made out to be, but, that’s my opinion. It’s unnecessary – homosexual attraction is not in itself sinful – not to mention harmful. I don’t know of any priest who promotes it.

However, some individual Catholics I know feel these rehab centres are a good thing.

 

[MtnDwellar]

People with same-sex attractions are obligated to chastity.

As are all members of the Church.

Celibacy is the sacrifice by a priest or religious of the good of a family to be in the service of God. This is beautiful and pleasing to Him. Individuals with same-sex attractions can have no valid desire for a family. The only thing they can sacrifice is a thing of abhorrent evil. It has all the moral substance of a child giving up Brussels sprouts for Lent.

Besides priests or religious, lay people may also take a vow of celibacy. As far as I know, homosexuals can take a vow of celibacy. Homosexuality is not a sin. Unmarried sex is mortally sinful whether with the same sex or opposite sex. Both an unmarried heterosexual person, or homosexual person, are vowing to abstain from an abhorrent evil.

People with same-sex attractions are required to avoid the near occasion of sin. That means, in their cases, any contact or association with members of their own gender. It also implies avoiding contact with members of the opposite gender since this may lead to scandal or exacerbate their loathsome condition. Divorce for a “married” couple of this sort is only the beginning. Solitude is the best option until they choose to avail themselves of NARTH and be made into something less dangerous and pathological.

We are all required to avoid the near occasion of sin. It does not mean that either straight or gay people have to avoid contact with members of the gender to which they are sexually attracted.

Solitude is not the “best” option and is not a teaching of the Church.

My suspicion is you are very misinformed, or worse, trying to paint the Catholic Church in a bad light.

 

[Conor7]

Perhaps this is slightly off topic, but won’t Christianity have to eventually evolve to accommodate homosexuality? Clearly the issue isn’t going away, and that’s more evident now more than ever.

I’m not saying it will happen tomorrow. But 100 years? Two-hundred years?

Fifty years ago scripture was used to demote interracial marriage. Of course, who knows what will happen?

 

[Azurestone]

Perhaps this is slightly off topic, but won’t Christianity have to eventually evolve to accommodate homosexuality? Clearly the issue isn’t going away, and that’s more evident now more than ever.

I’m not saying it will happen tomorrow. But 100 years? Two-hundred years?

Fifty years ago scripture was used to demote interracial marriage. Of course, who knows what will happen?

This assumes two things 1) that the faith was determined by debating theologians and 2) homosexuality is a new phenomenon.

In light of the Church Fathers and the literal meanings of 1Cor 6:9-10 and 1Timothy 1:10, and their interpretation (profession) by the fathers, the true faith is clear. Neither effeminate (μαλακοι), the person receiving the act, nor homosexuals (αρσενοκοιται), the one performing the act, are following the path of holiness.

The faith was revealed to us from God Himself, and we follow that faith through prayer and fasting to regain what has been lost to us after the Fall.

 

[Azurestone]

Why would you think homosexual acts are detrimental to our spiritual health? (beyond the “because God says so” answer)

Also, what is the difference between a homosexual act, a heterosexual act between consenting (unmarried) people, and a loving heterosexual sex between a married couple open to life?

 

[regression]

Also, what is the difference between a homosexual act, a heterosexual act between consenting (unmarried) people, and a loving heterosexual sex between a married couple open to life?

You answered your own question. Sex between homosexuals isn’t open to life. And sex between a man and woman who are not married, well, the difference is they are not married

 

[Tyuiop411]

Why would you think homosexual acts are detrimental to our spiritual health? (beyond the “because God says so” answer)

Because they’re sinful, all sinful acts are detrimental to our spiritual health whether they be the more mundane act of lust or the act of homosexual sex

Also, what is the difference between a homosexual act, a heterosexual act between consenting (unmarried) people, and a loving heterosexual sex between a married couple open to life?

Two are sinful and one isn’t it. I wouldn’t say homosexual sex is a graver sin than premarital heterosexual sex though we do tend to stigmatize it more.

 

[Azurestone]

You both missed my point. We already know it’s sinful. Now understand why. Why is is sinful?

This isn’t an apophatic mystery of faith. There are reasons things cause a detriment to our relationship with God.

 

[Azurestone]

You both missed my point. We already know it’s sinful. Now understand why. Why is is sinful?

This isn’t an apophatic mystery of faith. There are reasons things cause a detriment to our relationship with God.

These sins of lust and pride(selfishness) are passions of our fallen state.

Homosexuality, just like extramarital sex, and even inappropriate marital sex, fulfill what? Our passions. WE want what? Sex with that girl? She makes ME feel (blank). Homosexual sex makes me feel (blank). And like all passions (mortal sins), what we originally yearned for and what seemed so sweet leaves us empty, if not hollow.

Christianity is about the perfection of the believer by union with God in the participation of the divine life. The one thing that truly fills us. When we give into our passions, we desire fulfillment of the flesh, and reject the fulfillment of the Divine.

The fulfillment of the sexual design is the union of a man and woman, under God, for the expression of love. Without love, it is perversion. Without openness to life, it is seeking perversion and passion.

 

[kylemccloughan]

I have never encountered the idea of homosexual rehabilitation in the Catholic Church. But If a homosexual converts we expect them to remain celibate or if they so choose, marry a woman.

i don’t mean to sound brash here, but what sense would that make? I believe St. Paul calls on homosexuals to merely remain celibate.

 

[nodito]

I may regret posting this, as this is a hotly debated topic, but what is the Catholic Church’s stance on a homosexual converting? …

What if a married homosexual couple converted? Would they even be allowed? And, would they be expected to get a civil divorce?

Hi Conor, welcome to CAF.

People convert to Catholicism for any number of reasons, but central to their motivation must be their conviction that the Catholic Church is the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ and led by the Holy Spirit to teach the truth. Presumably, a man in a homosexual relationship would know what the Church teaches about homosexual behavior prior to converting; specifically, that while same sex attraction is not sinful, homosexual acts are gravely disordered (i.e., seriously wrong). This person would have to be willing to reject sin in order to enter the Church. At a minimum, this would mean living apart from his partner and refraining from homosexual activity. It might also entail a civil divorce if he were legally “married”, although the Church doesn’t recognize homosexual marriage so to me the divorce would seem to be more of a formality.

You might be interested in reading this interview between Fr. Serpa and a man who left a homosexual relationship to convert to Catholicism.

Conor7:

Perhaps this is slightly off topic, but won’t Christianity have to eventually evolve to accommodate homosexuality? Clearly the issue isn’t going away, and that’s more evident now more than ever.

We are Christian because we follow Christ. He founded the Catholic Church to help us attain salvation, and it cannot err on matters of faith and morals. So when the Church teaches that homosexual acts are gravely disordered, we know that this cannot change or evolve. It is the unchanging truth. It is possible that the Church will become more adept at responding to the needs of people experiencing same sex attraction or that she will be able to better articulate the reasoning behind the teaching, but the truth itself - that sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful - cannot change.

God bless.

 

[Tyuiop411]

i don’t mean to sound brash here, but what sense would that make? I believe St. Paul calls on homosexuals to merely remain celibate.

I’m really referring to homosexuals that are basically bisexual but lean heavily towards homosexuality. They may decide to try dating women (or men) and see if they can be attracted to them. Homosexual in the sense that you are attracted solely to members of the opposite sex obviously precludes this option.