Homosexuality and Catholic Decline. An article

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CatholicELATeacher said:
I take my truth from a higher source.

And we’re not talking about outliers here like the occasional sexual experimenter. We’re talking about those who habitually engage in homosexual activity. They are addicted to a wicked activity, a vice opposed to the virtue of love as embodied in God’s creation of man and woman in the communion of persons.
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What you say seems not to recognize that you’re talking about real human beings, some of them people who were disowned by their families and sometimes kicked out of their homes and found themselves living on the street when they were young; some of them deeply wounded by the churches they grew up in; some of them people who attempted suicide because they were brought up to believe certain things about homosexuals and hated themselves for being the way they are. I know some gay men who attempted to kill themselves when they were young. There’s no sympathy in what you write, only a caricature about people who engage in “wicked activity”.
 
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Ah, the victim card.
How is it that so many others, with far more difficult life circumstances, manage to refrain from living immoral lifestyles?
 
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CatholicELATeacher said:
Ah, the victim card.
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I think that the people I know and care about who hated themselves so much for being gay that they tried to kill themselves were victims. I know that things like this apparently seem kind of trivial to you, but these are people I know in real life, not people I’ve imagined as part of some academic argument.
 
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Who are you really trying to convince that a homosexual lifestyle is virtuous–others? Or yourself?
 
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CatholicELATeacher said:
Who are you really trying to convince that a homosexual lifestyle is virtuous? Others? Or yourself?
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I’m not trying to convince myself of anything. I made a decision to come out more than 30 years ago and any internal struggle or doubts I experienced over that happened long ago. But I’m still always a little disturbed by how mean-spirited some of the arguments are that I see here in CAF or in the articles that are posted. Take the one mentioned above where the author of the article suggested that some boys become gay because they liked getting raped. That seems like a pretty mean-spirited thing to say. No right thinking person could truly believe that anyone likes to get raped.
 
I see you are a new member. Just so you know, SSA meanings same-sex attraction. A lot of us here avoid using homosexual as a noun out of the conviction that having homosexual desires or any other disordered inclination does not define who we are.

Do your friends make having SSA a huge part of their identity or treat it as something that does not need to be mentioned in most cases? Like celebrating LGBT pride and stuff. Other Catholics tend to be skeptical of Catholics who are very wedded to the LGBT identity and, understandably so. It can get to the point that one’s religion takes a backseat to one’s sexuality.

If that is not the case and they are low-key about it, it could also be the distrust endemic to our increasingly tribalistic society. The LGBT community has a disproportionate amount of power for the demographic they represent and is hell-bent on destroying people who will not celebrate their lifestyle choices with them. It has gotten to the point that people who have SSA who do not count themselves as part of that community and want nothing to do with it may get lumped in with them when people find out they have SSA. It is defense mechanism driven by fear. The fear that Catholics with SSA may give up and embrace their disordered sexuality as something to celebrate and use their newly-accepted victim currency to destroy the people who have been previously close to them.

It is similar to how male employers are now afraid of mentoring their female employees for fear of false accusations in this current era of sexual assault hysteria. The distrust sown between the sexes has, as a result, made it harder for women to advance in their jobs.

Now, none of this justifies outright hatred. However, I am just giving an explanation as to why other Catholics may be uneasy around Catholics with SSA since that can be interpreted as hatred. Not saying that there are not people who hate others just because of something they cannot help. I cannot understand their reasoning and, therefore, cannot offer any explanation.
 
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redbetta said:
The LGBT community has a disproportionate amount of power for the demographic they represent and is hell-bent on destroying people who will not celebrate their lifestyle choices with them.
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Approximately how many of these people are there who have been “destroyed” by the LGBT community?
 
If just one person, or his business, is attacked, that’s one too many. To know that you’ll be subject to emotional and financial upheaval and/or ruination because you want nothing to do with supporting a lifestyle that is contrary to your beliefs is a real threat for any business today.

It’s rather . . .facetious? . . .to ask how many have been destroyed. Not one should even be worried, let alone attacked, or destroyed. Any person should be free to think whatever he thinks—no matter how heinous—as long as he doesn’t confront others with his thoughts.

When a baker—or any other businessperson—is doing business as usual, but declines to depict with plastic or frosting something in which he doesn’t believe, and, in fact, believes is sinful, and, according to his beliefs, believes that by doing what has been requested, he will be contributing to sinful behavior, he should be able to decline without fear of any kind of retribution.

Instead, as you well know, more than one such businessperson has found himself embroiled in multiple media and court flayings with unexpected legal fees and fines, in addition to lost time from his/her business. It is my understanding that some businesses have folded, depriving the baker and his employees of an income, and that horrendous fines have wiped out hope of ever recovering financially.

Among themselves, the SSA community should be free to live as they wish, but, likewise, they should let others live as they wish. There’s no need to be “in your face” with anyone.
 
Thorolfr said:
But I’m still always a little disturbed by how mean-spirited some of the arguments are that I see here in CAF or in the articles that are posted.
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It’s that way partly because many of us who might express a more rational view have ceased to bother posting or flagging on the subject. The endless threads about “TEH GAYZ!” (as one poster put it a while back) are always dumpster fires and flag fests waiting to happen, if not actually happening. Actual discussion is not going to happen for the most part. So you’re mostly going to get an extreme anti-gay “LGBTQs are wrecking the Church” kind of view.
 
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This is some pretty paranoid stuff. Gays and women, a big evil cabal, eh?
 
I think it is plain that homosexuals have been born into a painful existence as a Catholic, but also as a human being living in the world.
As a Catholic, the thing that would jump out at me would be that, “their inclination is inherently disordered.”
This is from the catechism. It remains a very troubling concept since the catechism itself says that science continues to not understand the inclination and its origins. It seems drawn from tradition, which we assume is a positive, but I have always had a problem with certain tradition that is somewhat dependant on science and knowledge unavailable in previous millenia.
If you ever read Genesis, one of the first peculiarities is the first and then second creation story.
The second of course is more detailed and people often find the first redundant tending to focus on the second. This sounds like a child’s analysis, but in truth, it seems all of Christianity is ordered to Genesis 3 where the store begins.( Perhaps disordered. )
The point is Genesis 1:1 and what immediately follows has a profound point. “It was good!” And It was good. And it was good. And it was very good.
God only created good. That is fundemental in our faith and that first chapter.
Man is created good. ( Despite our erronious ideas OTHERWIZE.)
And so the idea of anything like inclination being disordered, draws perilously close to a position that certain people were not created good.
This debate of " born gay" vs " behavioural/ environmentally spawned" continues to rage, but the catechism itself acknowledges it is unresolved substantially. And the lack of conclusion makes any use of the term intrinsically imprecise at best.
 
Each and every person, regardless of sexual orientation or preference, is a beloved daughter or son of the Most High God.

Please treat each other with that image, it is always the best approach for any contentious discussion.

Homosexual activity is inherently wrong. Let us help those struggling with these temptations with charity and love.

Prejudice, hatred, and persecution of someone because they are different is always wrong.

Everyone needs a Simon of Cyrene to help them carry their individual cross. Help those in need, as Christ taught us.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will he called children of God,
Deacon Christopher
 
Marriage existed in a natural way before Christ.

It was elevated to a sacrament by the Lord Jesus.

Deacon Christopher
 
I feel that we would do better to promote what we stand for; rather than what we are against. A loving marriage between one man and one woman until death do us part. Sadly by the time a child reaches fifteen in the UK, about half of them are not living with both their biological parents.

The breakdown of marriages fragments communities.
 
i have a weird feeling that the author of this article is going to be found in a hotel in 5 years time with a male stripper. getting a “doth protest too much” vibe.
 
From the OP’s article:
“there is now something close to universal approval of homosexual sodomy. Only homophobes, it is held, could possibly disapprove of that kind of love.”

Not sure how universal it is. But even “prevalent” is sad beyond words, since such “love” is a counterfeit of God’s plan for the communion of persons in the true, nuptial, incarnational relationship of man and woman.
 
on_the_hill said:
3) A teenager is homosexually seduced or raped by an older teen or an adult, e.g., a Catholic priest, finds the experience pleasant, and after further experiences becomes addicted.
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I used to be homophobic and no longer am. I accept the Church teaching on homosexuality. Although I have no hate in my heart for the people. And when I read stuff like this it tempts me to take a very lax attitude towards the seriousness of the sin. Especially towards the Catholics/Christians who say things like this. Not saying I am right for doing so but it’s a reflex.
 
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ConsistantlyBaffled said:
i have a weird feeling that the author of this article is going to be found in a hotel in 5 years time with a male stripper. getting a “doth protest too much” vibe.
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And oddly enough, the author is a former Democratic congressman from Rhode Island (a blue state). So, I guess not all Democrats from blue states are pro-LGBTQ.
 
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