Homosexuality and God's plan for those who are gay

[jjr9]

The purpose of the cross is sanctification.

It doesn’t matter if one’s cross is constantly crying twins who leave you with no sleep at night, or if it’s homosexuality, or if it’s cancer, of if it’s sitting in prison for life after having murdered someone.

ALL those things, if done in love and in a state of grace, are oriented towards growing ever more in love with God. Suffering without love is pointless, love without suffering is an empty emotion.

Now, is he lamenting not being able to marry, or is he arguing that such an inability is really quite mean and nasty and oh! so ridiculous? The world may never know.

Do you believe that truth is important? I do.

Do you believe the Magisterium accepting the mythical “homosexual person” as real is truth? I do not.

Do you believe it is helpful to those struggling with SSA to tell them they are a different type
of person a “homosexual person”? I do not.

God bless

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Eichelbaum, Jjr9 expresses his point well here.

The Church has, unnecessarily, reinforced the world’s doctrine that those who call themselves gays or whom others call gays are a separate caste.

What you have omitted are several points.

For one I want to ask Catholic1seeks what models he has seen around him of Catholics manifesting regeneration, the indwelling Jesus and Holy Spirit power for living and able to warmly explain their experience of those things at length to him.

Next I read something devastating that went like this (I’ll not give you the URL for it):

(In addition I would make a point they don’t make which is that spiritual communion - sitting out - isn’t inferior and isn’t advertised enough)

quote

1. There are many people who don’t receive communion for years because they are in an irregular marriage situation. It shouldn’t be this way, rather, the other way around. They should be abstaining from sex, not the Eucharist. Sex is a temporal thing. Considering the eternal reward for doing so and the eternal consequences for not doing so, forgoing sex for a time in order to live a life that is pleasing to God and to help someone you love to do the same is a very small sacrifice.
2. Thank you …], for stating this. This is the way it is. Annulments are presumed in very many, perhaps even most cases, to be a “sure thing”. Get the civil divorce and we can pretty much guarantee you that declaration of nullity. How is it that this can be presumed so readily?

Because though it is difficult to manufacture a false declaration of nullity concerning defect of form, it really has become a bit of a piece of cake, as the saying goes, in so many diocesan tribunals, to tinker and fiddle with and manufacture a declaration of nullity concerning defect of consent.

How many souls, can you imagine, are being lead along the path to hell, who have been involved in this type of wicked modernism and manipulation? The clergy, the tribunal officials, members of the family involved and their friends (witnesses) etc.,

The situation as it is, right now in the Church, is crippling and deforming very, very many souls. Not the least of whom are the children who learn all of this pandering and destruction from their elders.

Thanks …], and …]. I urge you to keep at this topic, as it is an extreme scandal in the Church today, and appears to be on its way to becoming even yet more severe. The culture of divorce is a big contributor to the culture of death.

quote

The point being that sex addiction cloaked in “good marriage” and “bad marriage” alike sends a deadly mixed message to the single. The JP II Army seems to have sparked people off flaunting this addiction. Everyone (except the dull) wants a piece of the “action”!

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

…

Can people please stop acting as if gay sex is so different from disordered heterosexual sex? Morally it isn’t.

This indeed trumps the idea cited by Eichelbaum in no. 93.

Setting up the system - with collusion by many - to rob you and me of thousands of billions is a particularly disordered application of the principle of private property, by comparison with something spontaneously being swiped (God forbid) (in addition to in this case being morally hugely compounded).

In any case this has to be seen in the context of the Church’s collusion with the creation of castes and the JP II Army-style flaunting of sex addiction combined with plain unfriendliness cloaked by “good marriages”.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

And in the case of the most sincere of you, it gets “better” yet - very convenient for some elements to parade your sex life as if it’s you that’s got the sex addiction.

(Who thought, a couple of posts into the thread, this is a simplistic issue?)

 

[LPS]

Today’s reading from Galatians 5 seemed appropriate for this thread.

I say, then: live by the Spirit
and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh.
For the flesh has desires against the Spirit,
and the Spirit against the flesh;
these are opposed to each other,
so that you may not do what you want.
But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[LPS]

You know, this thread and the discussion about “God’s plan for those who are gay” and arguing whether straight single people wondering if they’ll ever get married is the same thing, kind of misses the point, I think.

We ALL desire to know God’s plan, to know what’s ahead in our lives. We all want it laid out clearly.

But God rarely works that way, if ever. I’m 55 years old and I still wonder what His plan is for my life, whether I missed something or whether certain things lie ahead for me.

And what I’ve learned is that while we all ponder the future and (as best we can) plan for a certain outcome and work toward it, we are not in control.

“Today” I am where where He has placed me. It’s not a place I ever planned for myself, but it’s where I am.

Now, what am I going to do about it? How am I going to serve Him today? Will I look at the blessings I have today, surrender to His plan for me (whatever it is, whether I understand it or not) … or continue to struggle and try to force “my” way?

This is our universal struggle, whatever your cross, whatever your gifts, whatever your shortcomings.

Rejoice always, pray without ceasing. *** In all circumstances give thanks** for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.*

Peace to you all, and may God bless you.

 

[joseie]

Very true ! (Post 126 ).The key to face the trials and tribulations and seemingly unusual or helpless situations is to remind ourselves atlest once in a day,the ultimate purpose of our creation which is : To know and glorify God.Questions such as why the poor homosexuals are denied…etc . will not be a major or worrisome issue then. Whether your actions and indulgences (including those sexually related ) are correct or not - the answer will come automatically provided our ulimate purpose of being here is correctly understood .

 

[PseuTonym]

It’s not really the same. A straight man has the potential and hope to enter into a relationship and be married. A gay man does not have that hope. Even more, the former’s state is considered natural, and the latter’s is disordered. So the straight man has the potential to form something good while the gay person’s wishes are deemed as immoral.

Substituting, we obtain the following:

It’s not really the same. A Catholic priest has the potential and hope to enter into a relationship and be married. A gay man does not have that hope. Even more, the former’s state is considered natural, and the latter’s is disordered. So the Catholic priest has the potential to form something good while the gay person’s wishes are deemed as immoral.

Now, that does not seem to make a lot of sense, does it? However, you used the phrase “a straight man”, and that does include the possibility of a Catholic priest, if you believe that the general category “straight man” allows for the possibility of a Catholic priest. If I say that a multiple of ten is an even number, then what I say is true, and I do not need to later add a caveat to explain that I meant specifically a multiple of ten that is somehow an ordinary number, say not more than a trillion, and not having any prime factor larger than 97.

First let us omit hope. A Catholic priest does not hope to personally get married, unless the Catholic priest is hoping to abandon the priesthood, or hoping to secretly marry contrary to the rules of the priesthood.

Now, we try to consider a contrast between moral judgment of the gay person’s wishes and … what? If it is to be a comparison that we simply and sincerely seek and we instead find a contrast, then it is a moral judgment of the Catholic priest’s wishes.

Well, if we are going to look at wishes, then why restrict ourselves to small wishes? Maybe a Catholic priest wishes to be Pope, or wishes to unite the world into a single government under the leadership of that Catholic priest, and bring an end to war. Surely it is possible that a Catholic priest has such wishes. Many people wish that they could eat unlimited quantities of fatty and sweet foods without gaining weight.

Maybe we should make another substitution. Instead of focusing on what a Catholic priest wishes, we can focus on what the Catholic priest resolves to do.

We are looking at a contrast between a moral judgment of what the Catholic priest resolves to do and a moral judgment of what the gay person resolves to do.

What is the origin of “the potential to form something good”? We are one step away from “the potential to experience a particular kind of pleasure”, such as the pleasure that some people get from abusing their authority. After all, what is the so-called “pleasure principle”?