Homosexuality and Hope

[CopticChristian]

Too many Catholics are not informed as to what can be said about Homosexuality. The American Psychiatric Association has adopted a Fundamentalist point of view that no one has to accept. There is light at the end of the tunnel. I posted this…

No Silence for This Lamb…outlining facts not fallacy

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=766634

The number of “ No” votes-votes to keep “homosexuality” in the DSM as a mental disorder: 3,810 when compared to the Number of “Yes” votes-votes to remove “homosexuality” from the DSM as a mental disorder: 5,854, should be viewed as those that believed homosexuality is a mental disorder did not vanish and go away and probably did not change their opinion and they have a right to a dissenting opinion, and point of view protected by law. There are 3,810 dissenting voices to the gay agenda within the ranks of the APA and their opinion and view can and should be honored.

Fr. Groeschel is a Psychologist and renders this opinion…

insightscoop.typepad.com/2004/2009/08/fr-benedict-groeschel-blasts-american-psychological-association.html

Fr. Benedict Groeschel blasts American Psychological Association
From the September 6-12, 2009, issue of National Catholic Register:
As a member of the American Psychological Association for 36 years, I am filled with indignation at the recent statement of the APA that deems it “inappropriate” for therapists to treat homosexual clients.

Such therapy is called reparative therapy and has as its goal the establishment of a heterosexual orientation in place of a homosexual one.

This statement of the APA has been issued despite the fact that there are a number of outstanding members of that organization, including two past presidents, who have strongly supported reparative treatment.

We are not required to adhere to the thinking of the American Psychiatric Association, The American Psychological Association or the American Medical Association…here we have an alternative view…

catholicpsychotherapy.org/

Our Mission

The mission of the Catholic Psychotherapy Association, Inc. shall be to support mental health practitioners by promoting the development of psychological theory and mental health practice which encompasses a full understanding of the human person and society in communion with the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

**
Our Vision**

Provide regular opportunities for professional development and continuing education through conferences, teleconferencing, and workshops.

Provide networking capability to its members in order to learn, encourage, support, and pray with each other. Encourage and support the presentation of scholarly work and writing that is relevant to the mission of CPA through a quarterly newsletter and eventual journal.

Work in conjunction with other organizations such as the Society for Catholic Social Scientists and the Catholic Medical Association.

Develop and maintain an interactive website that facilitates communication and sharing of information among its members.

In a recent article published in the APA journal…the hope for Homosexuality is expressed…

catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0054.html

The American Psychological Association article, written by Warren Throckmorton, a professor and counselor at Grove City College, a Christian school in Pennsylvania, analyzed 11 studies conducted during a 20-year period.

Contrary to many in his field, Throckmorton contended that orientation-change therapy is not harmful, and he recommended psychologists work with patients who seek change in orientation or refer them to “ex-gay” counseling programs.

The article has caused a stir in the professional association whose leaders recently sought to have “ex-gay” therapy labeled unethical. As far back as 1973, another professional organization, the American Psychiatric Association, removed homosexuality from its list of mental disorders, and many mental health professionals seek only to have homosexual patients accept their orientation.

“Homosexuality and Hope,” the statement by the Catholic Medical Association, claimed that same-sex attraction is an emotional disorder that stems from faulty familial relationships and peer problems

and rather than turn to the American Medical Association there is the Hope in the Catholic Medical Association view as expressed here…

cathmed.org/issues_resources/publications/position_papers/homosexuality_and_hope/

Homosexuality and Hope
December 15, 2010
CMA’s pamphlet Homosexuality & Hope: Questions and Answers About Same-Sex Attraction provides clear, sensitive, and updated advice to persons and families who are dealing with same-sex attraction. Homosexuality & Hope was first printed in 1999 in booklet form as a service to the medical profession, the Church, and society. Later, in 2003, a shorter pamphlet, focused on responding to the most frequently asked questions about same-sex attraction, was published. Later editions of the Homosexuality & Hope pamphlet, in 2008 and 2010, brought a new design and layout, updated citations reflecting new research on same-sex attraction, and a new question on recent attempts to apply the title “marriage” to same-sex relationships.

Any postings suggesting that the American Psychiatric Association and their Fundamentalist view is gospel, using words like Fringe, mainstream, etc should think again…

I predict that California SB-1172 will fail the test of the courts and Reparative Therapy will not be stopped and this should be happening in April…reasons include actions by those that support HIV/Aids, protected rights, and ethic suppression. Stay tuned as efforts by the LGBT forces to silence fail…

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

So you are suggesting that we reject the well-reasoned APA view because those who espouse an anti-gay agenda believe that ex-gay therapy works? Is that about the sum of it? Come on.

 

[Lochias]

So you are suggesting that we reject the well-reasoned APA view because those who espouse an anti-gay agenda believe that ex-gay therapy works? Is that about the sum of it? Come on.

I, for one, don’t consider the APA view well-reasoned at all.

Neither do at least 3,000 or so of its members.

I wouldn’t call the APA view “well-reasoned” if over 3,000 people didn’t buy it.

 

[CopticChristian]

So you are suggesting that we reject the well-reasoned APA view because those who espouse an anti-gay agenda believe that ex-gay therapy works? Is that about the sum of it? Come on.

Veritas,

I suggest you accept that there is a viewpoint that will prevail based on law and that the Fundamentalist point of view of the APA, reasoned or not, is only a point of view, not the only point of view and that any therapy that is requested should be offered based on ethics. Come on, let me show you where I sat…the name of the place…I like it like that…Come on…

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I, for one, don’t consider the APA view well-reasoned at all.

Neither do at least 3,000 or so of its members.

I wouldn’t call the APA view “well-reasoned” if over 3,000 people didn’t buy it.

Yeah… that vote was conducted in 1973. That’s 40 years ago. You wouldn’t rely on traditional medical procedures from the 1970’s, would you?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Veritas,

I suggest you accept that there is a viewpoint that will prevail based on law and that the Fundamentalist point of view of the APA, reasoned or not, is only a point of view, not the only point of view and that any therapy that is requested should be offered based on ethics. Come on, let me show you where I sat…the name of the place…I like it like that…Come on…

Indeed, the view of the APA is only a scientific opinion, nothing more than that. However, the only thing going against it right now is the fringe opinion of the anti-gay heteromafia with a heterosexualist agenda.

I’ll be happy to start listening as soon as I see reports from those without such an agenda.

 

[CopticChristian]

Yeah… that vote was conducted in 1973. That’s 40 years ago. You wouldn’t rely on traditional medical procedures from the 1970’s, would you?

Veritas,

Your notion of time in the field of Medicine lacks understanding. Cancer of the Head of the Pancreas is treated with the Whipple Procedure…a procedure that has not changed much in years…

This procedure was originally described by Alessandro Codivilla, an Italian surgeon, in 1898. The first resection for a periampullary cancer was performed by the German surgeon Walther Kausch in 1909 and described by Kausch in 1912.

It is often called the Whipple procedure, after the American surgeon Allen Whipple who devised an improved version of the surgery in 1935 and subsequently came up with multiple refinements to his technique.

Concerning well reasoned views…Imagine a vote to say…Pancreatic Cancer is no longer Cancer…How do you think that would go over in the Medical field?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Veritas,

Your notion of time in the field of Medicine lacks understanding. Cancer of the Head of the Pancreas is treated with the Whipple Procedure…a procedure that has not changed much in years…

As a “newer” science,. psychology has evolved quite rapidly in recent years, however:

Concerning well reasoned views…Imagine a vote to say…Pancreatic Cancer is no longer Cancer…How do you think that would go over in the Medical field?

If the AMA determined that it wasn’t by a vote? Then yes, I would adopt that view.

 

[CopticChristian]

Indeed, the view of the APA is only a scientific opinion, nothing more than that. However, the only thing going against it right now is the fringe opinion of the anti-gay heteromafia with a heterosexualist agenda.

I’ll be happy to start listening as soon as I see reports from those without such an agenda.

Veritas,

You may want to study the history of Psychoanalysis…it is the norm for this history to break away and not be part of the mainstream…it is abnormal to accept a Fundamentalist point of view…

blatner.com/adam/psyntbk/historypsychotherapy/hxpsytherapy1.html

Freud…then

Alfred Adler was one of the first to strike out on his own. Although he never hesitated to grant Freud primacy in the validity of what essential ideas he agreed with. Still, he felt that there were a number of concepts which he could contribute.He was most active between 1909 and 1937, when he died on a speaking tour in Scotland.

then

Jung also was an independent thinker who split with Freud in 1913, two years after Adler left the organization. Like Adler, Jung also gave his own approach a distinctive term–Analytical Psychology. Jung’s point of difference related to his recognizing that there are a number of other basic dynamisms beyond Freud’s focus on sexuality and Adler’s on the theme of power.

and

Karen Horney was one of the first to break away from the dominant psychoanalytic organization, around 1941, and she and some others established an alternative organization, The Association for the Advancement of Psychoanalysis. the next year, she teamed up with Harry Stack Sullivan and Clara Thompson and formed the William Alanson White Institute in Washington, DC. In 1944, these non-orthodox psychoanalysts such as Judd Marmor and William Silverberg of the Flower-Fifth Avenue Medical School in New York City affiliated with this non-orthodox group. They considered the training of non-medical psychoanalysts, gave more emphasis to the influence of culture in psychology, and so forth. They offered a way to be non-orthodox and still call yourself a psychoanalyst.

The view of the APA is not in any way scientific. Show me the science.

The History of Psychotherapy is one of evolution and breaking away and forming new ideas not Fundamentalism as seen by the Gay agenda in the APA…

NARTH is nothing more than Adler, Jung, and Karen Horney with new ideas with what will be unsuccessful attempts to suprress those ideas…

 

[CopticChristian]

As a “newer” science,. psychology has evolved quite rapidly in recent years, however:

If the AMA determined that it wasn’t by a vote? Then yes, I would adopt that view.

Veritas,

I am all ears…outline the evolution of this newer science and tell me the salient features of thought…

As a “newer” science,. psychology has evolved quite rapidly in recent years, however:

If the AMA deteremined by other than vote…but that is how the APA changed the DSM for homosexuality and how they are changing the DSM for the Transgender…find the science for the Transgender change…do you evidence of brain biopsies, as that is the standard for a Pathologic diagnosis of the brains of transgendered…

 

[Lochias]

Yeah… that vote was conducted in 1973. That’s 40 years ago. You wouldn’t rely on traditional medical procedures from the 1970’s, would you?

Medical procedure and psychological procedure are two entirely different beasts. The fact that psychology still takes ANYTHING that Freud had to say as serious makes me raise an eyebrow.

 

[Sister_Terese]

Too many Catholics are not informed as to what can be said about Homosexuality. The American Psychiatric Association has adopted a Fundamentalist point of view that no one has to accept. There is light at the end of the tunnel. I posted this…

No Silence for This Lamb…outlining facts not fallacy

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=766634

Fr. Groeschel is a Psychologist and renders this opinion…

insightscoop.typepad.com/2004/2009/08/fr-benedict-groeschel-blasts-american-psychological-association.html

We are not required to adhere to the thinking of the American Psychiatric Association, The American Psychological Association or the American Medical Association…here we have an alternative view…

catholicpsychotherapy.org/

In a recent article published in the APA journal…the hope for Homosexuality is expressed…

catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0054.html

and rather than turn to the American Medical Association there is the Hope in the Catholic Medical Association view as expressed here…

cathmed.org/issues_resources/publications/position_papers/homosexuality_and_hope/

Any postings suggesting that the American Psychiatric Association and their Fundamentalist view is gospel, using words like Fringe, mainstream, etc should think again…

I predict that California SB-1172 will fail the test of the courts and Reparative Therapy will not be stopped and this should be happening in April…reasons include actions by those that support HIV/Aids, protected rights, and ethic suppression. Stay tuned as efforts by the LGBT forces to silence fail…

I sought a psychologist after my mother, aunt, and grandparents all died in the span of 5 years. I took care of all of them until their deaths and I needed to learn coping skills and relief from my terrible depression after their deaths. I found a wonderful Catholic psychologist who helped me through some very dark days (along with my spiritual director)–but that is because he was a faithful Catholic man first and a psychologist second. Psychology has its place, but unfortunately today, psychology for many has become their “new religion”.

 

[CopticChristian]

I sought a psychologist after my mother, aunt, and grandparents all died in the span of 5 years. I took care of all of them until their deaths and I needed to learn coping skills and relief from my terrible depression after their deaths. I found a wonderful Catholic psychologist who helped me through some very dark days (along with my spiritual director)–but that is because he was a faithful Catholic man first and a psychologist second. Psychology has its place, but unfortunately today, psychology for many has become their “new religion”.

SisterTerese,

This is true and the tragedy is rather than diversity we get Fundamentalism as exhibited by the American Psychiatric Association/LGBT agenda that those that accept these propositions fail to see. Fortunately they have not garnered the market on truth and we will see division and separation…

Catholic Medical Association…in deference to the AMA
Catholic Psychiatric Association…in deference to the APA
American Academy of Pediatrics…in deference to the American Academy Pediatrics
NARTH…that will continue to research Homosexuality…

and those organizations that have swallowed the red pill of the APA/LGBT agenda will continue to cause splintering because you cannot force an organization to accept preformed thinking that they do not agree with…

 

[DexUK]

Coptic, why are you so obsessed with this subject?

The Holy Catholic Church does not have a position on how homosexuality comes about. It concentrates only on an individual’s deliberate actions. It cares about Sin and that people avoid behaving in a sinful way.

Why does it matter what you or the APA or NARTH thinks about the psychological genesis of homosexuality?

The Church doesn’t have any dogmatic position on it. It only asks that a person who is not married remains chaste. It matters not whether that person is heterosexual or homosexual.

Please, for the sake of charity, could you please stop banging on about it? The artificial arguments you create about the subject and the strictures you lay down will do good to any Catholic man or woman who is experiencing same gender attractions and who are reading these threads. They will only go away in despair, and despair, as I’m sure you know, is itself a sinful position to be in. No self-identified Christian should EVER cause someone else to put themselves in that position of believing them to be outcasts from their faith just because of the desires they have.

Remember the Confiteor:

I confess, to almighty God … that I have greatly sinned, in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do, through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault…

Nowhere in the Confiteor is any mention of sinning by one’s unbidden desires - only by one’s deliberate actions.

So please, have some charity for your brothers and sisters in faith.

 

[CopticChristian]

Coptic, why are you so obsessed with this subject?

The Holy Catholic Church does not have a position on how homosexuality comes about. It concentrates only on an individual’s deliberate actions. It cares about Sin and that people avoid behaving in a sinful way.

Why does it matter what you or the APA or NARTH thinks about the psychological genesis of homosexuality?

The Church doesn’t have any dogmatic position on it. It only asks that a person who is not married remains chaste. It matters not whether that person is heterosexual or homosexual.

Please, for the sake of charity, could you please stop banging on about it? The artificial arguments you create about the subject and the strictures you lay down will do good to any Catholic man or woman who is experiencing same gender attractions and who are reading these threads. They will only go away in despair, and despair, as I’m sure you know, is itself a sinful position to be in. No self-identified Christian should EVER cause someone else to put themselves in that position of believing them to be outcasts from their faith just because of the desires they have.

Remember the Confiteor:

I confess, to almighty God … that I have greatly sinned, in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do, through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault…

Nowhere in the Confiteor is any mention of sinning by one’s unbidden desires - only by one’s deliberate actions.

So please, have some charity for your brothers and sisters in faith.

Dex,

I am obsessed with the truth that many deny…too often seen on these threads…

Do you believe that Homosexuality is like the color of your eyes and unchangeable?

Do you believe that the only Counselling for Homosexuals should be acceptance?

Do you believe that NARTH is quack therapy?

Do you believe that same sex relationships harm no one?

How do you feel about these issues?

 

[DexUK]

Dex,

I am obsessed with the truth that many deny…too often seen on these threads…

Do you believe that Homosexuality is like the color of your eyes and unchangeable?

Do you believe that the only Counselling for Homosexuals should be acceptance?

Do you believe that NARTH is quack therapy?

Do you believe that same sex relationships harm no one?

How do you feel about these issues?

I presume that you are heterosexual. That means you find members of the opposite gender sexually attractive.

Let me therefore ask you this incredibly simple question: Would you be able to find members of the same gender as yourself sexually attractive?

 

[CopticChristian]

I presume that you are heterosexual. That means you find members of the opposite gender sexually attractive.

Let me therefore ask you this incredibly simple question: Would you be able to find members of the same gender as yourself sexually attractive?

Dex,

I feel like Ronald Reagan…There you go again…answer the following questions for me that you have not addressed…

I am obsessed with the truth that many deny…too often seen on these threads…

Do you believe that Homosexuality is like the color of your eyes and unchangeable?

Do you believe that the only Counselling for Homosexuals should be acceptance?

Do you believe that NARTH is quack therapy?

Do you believe that same sex relationships harm no one?

How do you feel about these issues?

 

[sirach2v4]

argument is one thing, genuine scientific research is another. I think the latter is being done below the political radar of the advocacy groups.

The incidence of teenage suicide related to homosexual identity and to the phenomenon of bullying betrays how serious the matter is.

I think science is on the threshold of a vast area of scientific research into the human genome and epigenome. Homosexuality research is probably small but not non-existent in this area of the study of diseases with a genetic basis.

I can’t imagine that homosexuality does not have a genetic involvement. Individuals around the world in all cultures going back throughout recorded history display homosexual orientation. I consider this strong anecdotal evidence of a physical basis for the disorder.

The medical establishment has outdated views, I’m sure, as suggested earlier. Prostate cancer has been treated surgically, but is now being treated with drugs, as therapies emerge. I wouldn’t call the establishment position Fundamentalism. They simply retreat when they don’t have a definitive treatment modality.

If a cure for homosexuality was found, it would be more popular than treatments for erectile dysfunction. The current page of history of this subject would be quickly turned.
The sooner the better.

 

[Bella92]

Please, for the sake of charity, could you please stop banging on about it? The artificial arguments you create about the subject and the strictures you lay down will do good to any Catholic man or woman who is experiencing same gender attractions and who are reading these threads. They will only go away in despair, and despair, as I’m sure you know, is itself a sinful position to be in. No self-identified Christian should EVER cause someone else to put themselves in that position of believing them to be outcasts from their faith just because of the desires they have.

Don’t worry mate. People like me don’t let people like him make us despair. We’ve heard it all before. There’s no place for me in the catholic church, since I’m an active bisexual woman, but there’s plenty of room for me in other churches that accept us as we are, just like Jesus does. After all, I didn’t choose to become a bisexual woman. It’s God’s will for me, and who’s going to tell God he’s wrong. I’m not because I’m a very happy young woman being as I am.

 

[CopticChristian]

argument is one thing, genuine scientific research is another. I think the latter is being done below the political radar of the advocacy groups.

The incidence of teenage suicide related to homosexual identity and to the phenomenon of bullying betrays how serious the matter is.

I think science is on the threshold of a vast area of scientific research into the human genome and epigenome. Homosexuality research is probably small but not non-existent in this area of the study of diseases with a genetic basis.

I can’t imagine that homosexuality does not have a genetic involvement. Individuals around the world in all cultures going back throughout recorded history display homosexual orientation. I consider this strong anecdotal evidence of a physical basis for the disorder.

If a cure for homosexuality was found, it would be more popular than treatments for erectile dysfunction. The current page of history of this subject would be quickly turned.
The sooner the better.

Sirach,

The medical establishment has outdated views, I’m sure, as suggested earlier. Prostate cancer has been treated surgically, but is now being treated with drugs, as therapies emerge. I wouldn’t call the establishment position Fundamentalism. They simply retreat when they don’t have a definitive treatment modality.

You don’t understand what you are speaking of. Prostate Cancer is treated surgically when necessary and with hormones when necessary.

You don’t understand an eclectic vs Fundamentalist point of view. The Fundamentalist point of view is an attempt to force one opinion. This is no retreat. The SB-1172 bill in California is an attempt to use this Fundamentalist view to silence those that object.

Homosexuals wanting change should be able to access the ability to change and this is the dilema. The Fundamentalist point of view has manipulated the DSM and is trying to silence.