Homosexuality and marriage

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RevDon said:
I have written earlier that Catholics often think that what they experience has always been, and you just proved me right.
You know quite well that it was not so long age people taught that there were tremendous differences between the races.
Medicine is showing that there are differences today, for example in succeptibility to particular diseases.
What we have come around to as a civilization is that the differences don’t matter for functions that were at one time prohibited.
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You ate either a troll or a wolf who is scattering the flock
 
SonSearcher said:
Now correct me if I am wrong… but did you just subtly equate your dissenting position on homosexual marriage and how you choose to argue your point to Our Lord’s betrayal?

I surely hope not.

I have to point out that your tone in this thread continues to suggest an air of pride. You say you “respect” the Church’s position on this subject but I am sorry obedience is everything… of course unless the hierarchy as a whole is doing “sinful” things…which in this case you causing scandal by announcing your dissenting opinion is more sinful.
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What I was suggesting is that Grace and Marc were using character assasination rather than intelligent argument.

If discourse is scandal, then the Church is in a sad place. The previous Pope stated that there are topics which cannot be discussed. That flies in the face of God-given intellect. Some posters on this forum seem to believe that Truth = whatever comes out of the mouth of the hierarchy. That’s not the tradition of the Church. You can go back as far as Acts of the Apostes to see that important decisions were made through discussion, argument. Vatican I proclaimed Papal infallibility under extremely constrained circumstances which has been used exactly once, yet Catholics want to give over their intellects in everything and rest idle in the assurrance that all they must do is obey.

Sorry, but You are a part of this institution, and you bear responsibility for it too.
You have an obligation to know the scriptures and the traditions on the basis of which we make decisions, You have an obligation to use all of the means at your disposal to grow in your understanding of the scriptures and traditions, and you have an obligation to set out the arguments in a thoughtful - not just a knee-jerk- way, not only for the sake of those who call themselves members of this church, but also for the sake of those who are not. Jesus gave all of us the commission to make disciples of everybody and teach them to follow his commandments (especially the one about loving one another- which he placed near the top of the list.)

A Pope who squelches discussion is committing a grave sin, for it has been through such discussions that the Holy Spirit has led the Church. Now, I’ll drop my cause if the new Pope reveals that he has a red phone (or maybe in his case, a white one) with a direct line to heaven. Jesus’ promise of indefectibility wasn’t made to Peter, but to the Church as a whole, and there have been many times when the leadership has gone astray, but the body has brought them back to God’s way. Even if you want to say the keys were handed to Peter, He wasn’t told to use them apart from the body of the Church, and it is only in recent times that two things seem to have come together: the wide=spread higher education of Catholics with easy access to information and the laziness that prompts those same Catholics to fail to use what God has provided. No wonder this church is losing members! No wonder non-Catholics look at the Catholic Church as irrelevant!

So, if you want to call it pride that motivates me, go ahead, but I feel an obligation to keep the discussion going, even if in the end I am proved wrong. Thusfar I have found myself challenged to think, and search through my knowledge of scripture and tradition to find arguments. I believe that’s a good thing. I have been forced to present my views in a way that responds to the views held by others who do not agree with me. That is an exercise in what I think the Church should always be doing, rather than setting up walls of proclamation that make no sense to people and enforcing silence.
 
pete_29 said:
Balderdash!!! God created us male and female for a reason. You can spin it anyway you want, but God made it natural that a man be with a woman and a woman be with a man. Anything more than that is humankind trying to prove that they are superior to God.
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Of course there are some things for which those differences are important. Procreation is one, and breast feeding of infants is another.

I would also judge that there are actually physiological differences in the brains of men and women that bring about differing ways of behaving and thinking.

But we are not prisoners of physiology in all things, which is one way humans are distinct from animals. That, too, is how God made us.
 
RevDon said:
why don’t you post it for everybody to read
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Oh my gosh.

You say “can discourse cause scandal?” Heck yeah it can. Especially when you claim to be a Catholic priest who spouts “disobedience” and “social justice.”

Do you not have a Catechism? The post was meant solely for you, not for others. You read it, take it to heart.

You cannot deny that you are being provocative… whether that is on purpose or accident remains to be seen. I can’t say that I have enjoyed this conversation completely but your dissenting nature has contributed to my zeal for Holy Mother Church and her leaders…who were given the role to “lead” not bow to public opinion thank the good Lord Jesus.

Maybe I will see you around the forum. Adiós.

I pray that God has mercy on your soul.
 
RevDon said:
Of course there are some things for which those differences are important. Procreation is one, and breast feeding of infants is another.

I would also judge that there are actually physiological differences in the brains of men and women that bring about differing ways of behaving and thinking.

But we are not prisoners of physiology in all things, which is one way humans are distinct from animals. That, too, is how God made us.
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Show me one same sex marriage in history that God Has sanctioned. Just one.
 
RevDon said:
Do you have anything other than name-calling to add to this discussion?
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Is it name calling if it’s the truth? You seem to want us to give up our beliefs so that you can feel better about yourself.
 
SonSearcher said:
Oh my gosh.

You say “can discourse cause scandal?” Heck yeah it can. Especially when you claim to be a Catholic priest who spouts “disobedience” and “social justice.”

Do you not have a Catechism? The post was meant solely for you, not for others. You read it, take it to heart.

You cannot deny that you are being provocative… whether that is on purpose or accident remains to be seen. I can’t say that I have enjoyed this conversation completely but your dissenting nature has contributed to my zeal for Holy Mother Church and her leaders…who were given the role to “lead” not bow to public opinion thank the good Lord Jesus.

Maybe I will see you around the forum. Adiós.

I pray that God has mercy on your soul.
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Sorry, but these forum conversations are for all the followers. If I make any response I want everybody to see what I’m responding to.
Presently I am traveling, and I don’t pack my catechism.
 
pete_29 said:
Is it name calling if it’s the truth? You seem to want us to give up our beliefs so that you can feel better about yourself.
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**Yes it is name calling **and it has no place in an academic forum. It has no place in the mouth (or at the fingertips) of a follower of Jesus. It’s that kind of response that gives scandal to non-Catholics who have just cause thereby to ask what kind of people Catholics are. I don’t care about how you feel about me, and you should be able to guess from my posts that I’m not having any self-image problems.

As I see it, there are two kinds of strings on this web site. Many are appeals from troubled souls who are so hurting because of the way they have been brought up in the Church that they worry that everything they do will plop them in hell. They are looking for clarification, advice, solace.

The other kind are from people who care deeply about their church and question so that the Church may be a better witness to the world. These people accept that they are both missionaries and apologists in their daily lives and they seek to have their answers refined so that they may be better representatives of the Church they love. They welcome challenge because it makes them quicker and gives them the opportunity to strengthen their own faith through rational understanding.

I know which of these I am.
What kind are you?
 
SonSearcher said:
Oh my gosh.

You say “can discourse cause scandal?” Heck yeah it can. Especially when you claim to be a Catholic priest who spouts “disobedience” and “social justice.”

Do you not have a Catechism? The post was meant solely for you, not for others. You read it, take it to heart.

You cannot deny that you are being provocative… whether that is on purpose or accident remains to be seen. I can’t say that I have enjoyed this conversation completely but your dissenting nature has contributed to my zeal for Holy Mother Church and her leaders…who were given the role to “lead” not bow to public opinion thank the good Lord Jesus.

Maybe I will see you around the forum. Adiós.

I pray that God has mercy on your soul.
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👍
 
pete_29 said:
Show me one same sex marriage in history that God Has sanctioned. Just one.
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I can’t show you any marriage that God has sanctioned, except perhaps that of St. Joseph and Mary. The sanctioning of civil marriage is an action of the state, and the sanctioning of religious marriage is an act of the Church. And both of these agencies have the authority to do what they do.
 
pete_29 said:
👍
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"You cannot deny that you are being provocative… whether that is on purpose or accident remains to be seen. I can’t say that I have enjoyed this conversation completely but your dissenting nature has contributed to my zeal for Holy Mother Church and her leaders…who were given the role to “lead” not bow to public opinion thank the good Lord Jesus.

Pete, a response that is merely an emoticon leaves a great deal of room for interpretation.
Were you affirming that my postings have had an effect on you similar to that highlighted above?

If that is the case, then perhaps you have come to a place where you can make a good argument that might help convince someone either inside the Church or someone outside the Church for one or both of the propositions below:
  1. Civil government should not sanction civil marriage for same-sex couples.
  2. The Church should not permit religious marriage for same-sex couples.
 
RevDon said:
I can’t show you any marriage that God has sanctioned, except perhaps that of St. Joseph and Mary. The sanctioning of civil marriage is an action of the state, and the sanctioning of religious marriage is an act of the Church. And both of these agencies have the authority to do what they do.
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I will pray for you. Goodbye.
 
RevDon said:
There’s only one line. Loving acts between married spouses are not inherently sinful. They may become sinful when one of them is forced or coerced into it.
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Really. With total disregard for the health effects?
 
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