Homosexuality and marriage

[saintjoe]

Sorry, but you got my position wrong again.
I think that sexual relations between spouses is OK.

It is hard to decipher your position.

You pick your role models, but please don’t pick mine.
For many years I taught English. I’m sure you read Canterbury Tales. Think about how Chaucer criticized the errors of the Church 200 years before Martin Luther. Incidentally, Chaucer “disappeared.”

These kinds of comments are where I get confused, or as SonSearcher so eloquently stated, “My brain hurts”. Why reference Chaucer or Martin Luther? Do you admire Martin Luther and the outcome of his Ninety-Five theses? If so, have you considered nailing your theses on homosexuality and marriage to your bishop’s door?

The question is about homosexuality and marriage, care to get back to that?

The Church’s teachings are clear:

Homosexual practices are sins. CCC 2396
Homosexual persons are call to chastity. CCC 2359
God is the author of marriage. The vocation is between man and woman. CCC 1603

“No ideology can erase from the human spirit the certainty that marriage exists solely between a man and a woman…”

“Furthermore, the marital union of man and woman has been elevated by Christ to the dignity of a sacrament. The Church teaches that Christian marriage is an efficacious sign of the covenant between Christ and the Church (cf. Eph 5:32).”

“Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law.”

“Sacred Scripture condemns homosexual acts “as a serious depravity… (cf. Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10).”

“…persons need to be reminded that the approval or legalization of evil is something far different from the toleration of evil.”

“Society owes its continued survival to the family, founded on marriage. The inevitable consequence of legal recognition of homosexual unions would be the redefinition of marriage…”

“The principles of respect and non-discrimination cannot be invoked to support legal recognition of homosexual unions.”

“The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions.”

CDF, “Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons” (2003)

As a Catholic Priest, will you shepherd with the guidance the Holy Spirit guarantees to the Church, or will you let our society dictate your positions?

 

[buffalo]

We know the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[SonSearcher]

We know the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Amen.

 

[SonSearcher]

It is hard to decipher your position.

These kinds of comments are where I get confused, or as SonSearcher so eloquently stated, “My brain hurts”. Why reference Chaucer or Martin Luther? Do you admire Martin Luther and the outcome of his Ninety-Five theses? If so, have you considered nailing your theses on homosexuality and marriage to your bishop’s door?

The Church’s teachings are clear:

Homosexual practices are sins. CCC 2396
Homosexual persons are call to chastity. CCC 2359
God is the author of marriage. The vocation is between man and woman. CCC 1603

“No ideology can erase from the human spirit the certainty that marriage exists solely between a man and a woman…”

“Furthermore, the marital union of man and woman has been elevated by Christ to the dignity of a sacrament. The Church teaches that Christian marriage is an efficacious sign of the covenant between Christ and the Church (cf. Eph 5:32).”

“Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law.”

“Sacred Scripture condemns homosexual acts “as a serious depravity… (cf. Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10).”

“…persons need to be reminded that the approval or legalization of evil is something far different from the toleration of evil.”

“Society owes its continued survival to the family, founded on marriage. The inevitable consequence of legal recognition of homosexual unions would be the redefinition of marriage…”

“The principles of respect and non-discrimination cannot be invoked to support legal recognition of homosexual unions.”

“The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions.”

CDF, “Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons” (2003)

As a Catholic Priest, will you shepherd with the guidance the Holy Spirit guarantees to the Church, or will you let our society dictate your positions?

You made my brain hurt less.

 

[Apolojez]

If you want to be an animal, go for it. Prove that it’s a fact of nature.

Research shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in about 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms. One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species.

Time to crawl out from under that rock.

 

[markeverett49]

Research shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in about 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms. One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species.
.

Couple things here. Big difference between “homosexual behavior” and “homosexuality.” Lots of men in prisons engage in homosexual acts without being homosexual persons. Homosexual acts are wrong for human beings. (Whether they benefit gut worms is something I venture no opinion on.) Humans are a sexually reproducing species. Homosexuality is rare. It may be endured but that is a far cry from “normalizing” it or calling it the equivalent of conjugal sex.

(When proponents of natural law call something “unnatural,” this does NOT mean ‘doesn’t occur in nature.’ It means goes against the nature of the species, like fertilizing tomatoes with lye, or feeding rocks to your cat, or having sex with a person of the same sex.)

 

[buffalo]

Research shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in about 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms. One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species.

Time to crawl out from under that rock.

You are confusing instincts in nature with natural law. They are two very different things.

Man is a rational creature and self mastery is not succumbing to base instincts.

 

[davidv]

Research shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in about 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms. One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species.

Time to crawl out from under that rock.

Time for you to be logical. First, how does what occurs in nature define what ought to be? All you have described is what is.

Secondly, why does animal behavior equate to human behavior?

You can also knock off the ad hominems.

 

[Apolojez]

Couple things here. Big difference between “homosexual behavior” and “homosexuality.” Lots of men in prisons engage in homosexual acts without being homosexual persons. Homosexual acts are wrong for human beings. (Whether they benefit gut worms is something I venture no opinion on.) Humans are a sexually reproducing species. Homosexuality is rare. It may be endured but that is a far cry from “normalizing” it or calling it the equivalent of conjugal sex.

(When proponents of natural law call something “unnatural,” this does NOT mean ‘doesn’t occur in nature.’ It means goes against the nature of the species, like fertilizing tomatoes with lye, or feeding rocks to your cat, or having sex with a person of the same sex.)

You make good points mark. I do agree that homosexuality isn’t the natural way to procreate which is obvious. However, I also don’t believe that all GaL “choose” who they are attracted to, yet some may engage in homosexual behavior simply because it’s taboo. I do believe that most GaL are born gay because of some genetic difference from heterosexuals. I see it as “natural” for them to be attracted to the same-sex through no fault of their own, and therefore, not a sinful act since it is their nature.

 

[markeverett49]

You make good points mark. I do agree that homosexuality isn’t the natural way to procreate which is obvious. However, I also don’t believe that all GaL “choose” who they are attracted to, yet some may engage in homosexual behavior simply because it’s taboo. I do believe that most GaL are born gay because of some genetic difference from heterosexuals. I see it as “natural” for them to be attracted to the same-sex through no fault of their own, and therefore, not a sinful act since it is their nature.

Actually, the “born that way” argument is falling out of favor—it doesn’t seem to fit the facts. More researchers see a genetic / environmental interaction.
But be that as it may, even if people were ‘born that way,’ it would still be wrong to engage in homosexual acts, however “right” they might feel. I acknowledge this must be a “hard saying” to accept but nonetheless, it is the truth.

 

[Apolojez]

Time for you to be logical. First, how does what occurs in nature define what ought to be? All you have described is what is.

Secondly, why does animal behavior equate to human behavior?

You can also knock off the ad hominems.

I only deal in logic. When anyone demands that I prove a widely known fact that homosexual behavior is common in all animal species then he gets the ad hominems for being difficult.

I brought up the fact about the animal kingdom because they are also created male and female for a specific purpose and yet they engage in homosexual acts all the time, sometimes to ejaculation. It begs the question “Why”?

 

[Apolojez]

Actually, the “born that way” argument is falling out of favor—it doesn’t seem to fit the facts. More researchers see a genetic / environmental interaction.
But be that as it may, even if people were ‘born that way,’ it would still be wrong to engage in homosexual acts, however “right” they might feel. I acknowledge this must be a “hard saying” to accept but nonetheless, it is the truth.

I would disagree that it’s “falling out of favor”. True, a gene hasn’t been identified however. Why can one identical twin be manly and straight and the other effeminent and gay? They are raised exactly the same and share the same exact DNA don’t they? That’s the question I want to know because if a person is actually born gay then they are doomed to hell for being normal? That’s not the God of love I know. “Truth” is only what can be proven a fact. Religious truth is what you believe to be true.

People are born, what society would consider “normal” everday, so why can’t homosexuality be the result of something similar? I just don’t accept that people simply “choose” to be gay because no one chooses it. I didn’t nor did anyone I’ve ever asked that question of, gay or straight, say they did.

 

[davidv]

I only deal in logic. When anyone demands that I prove a widely known fact that homosexual behavior is common in all animal species then he gets the ad hominems for being difficult.

I brought up the fact about the animal kingdom because they are also created male and female for a specific purpose and yet they engage in homosexual acts all the time, sometimes to ejaculation. It begs the question “Why”?

Given that homosexual acts are inherently sterile means to me that they cannot be considered to be in accord with nature anywhere in the animal kingdom. Precisely because human nature is unique in God’s creation, any justification of human behavior based on animal behavior is fallaciously illogical.

 

[John_of_Woking]

You make good points mark. I do agree that homosexuality isn’t the natural way to procreate which is obvious. However, I also don’t believe that all GaL “choose” who they are attracted to, yet some may engage in homosexual behavior simply because it’s taboo. I do believe that most GaL are born gay because of some genetic difference from heterosexuals. I see it as “natural” for them to be attracted to the same-sex through no fault of their own, and therefore, not a sinful act since it is their nature.

Not a sinful act? Read the Catechism. As a catholic you should know better. Or are you being led astray by the wolves/rev dons in wolves clothing?

 

[InSearchofGrace]

…

Do you have the skill to defend the CDF document by stating facts that show me wrong? All I see are unsubstantiated opinions, some based on faulty scholarship, even errors.

Incidentally, I had two Good Friday services today. Did you attend one?
Just to tantalize you, I was ordained by an Archbishop, now deceased, and yes, my current bishop knows my views.

Riight. Robert Nugent was also a priest ordained by the Archbishop of Philadelphia with active ministries with Dignity. He spearheaded New Ways Ministry which has been declared outside, not connected, without authority on true Catholic teaching, for disagreement with the CDF and re-interpretation of Scripture to bolster pro-homosexual views. Views that you take liberty to spout in this Catholic forum under a convenient anonymous user name.

Betrayal is not new to followers of the Church that Jesus Christ established. It started with 12 Apostles one of whom denied Him but managed to repent the error and led the Mission Christ set in motion. The other is Judas.

Many Judases in our midst.
,

 

[saintjoe]

Research shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in about 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms. One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species.

Time to crawl out from under that rock.

When you start comparing humans to gut worms, you have lost the argument.

 

[John_of_Woking]

When you start comparing humans to gut worms, you have lost the argument.

Indeed. Rev Don and is his cohorts are on a slippery slope and who knows where it will end up

 

[John_of_Woking]

“There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church.” -Archbishop Sheen

…because the Catholic church has done a p-poor job of presenting itself.

And you frankly speak drivel and the fact that you are probably shepherding souls to hell is hardly going to look good on your cv come judgment day. We should be charitable but when you have a Priest behaving like Judas you need to tell him to pipe down and warn him of Dante’s vision of hell which is populated by unfaithful priests right at the bottom.

 

[pete_29]

Research shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in about 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms. One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species.

Time to crawl out from under that rock.

Time for you to grow up and stop spouting fringe science just to make yourself feel important.

 

[buffalo]

When you start comparing humans to gut worms, you have lost the argument.