Homosexuality And Why The Church Is Wrong

[Dakota_Roberts]

Hi, Uzziah,

I do not think this is really the thrust of the topic - a t least not the topic I responded to. Claiming hetersexuals have a ‘convenient outlet’ is truly dismissive and in my opinion, misses the point totally.

God bless

The vast majority of heterosexuals are allowed to express their feelings towards someone, on the other hand homosexuals aren’t allowed to express their feelings/

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Dakota,

Really?! That is truly a home-grown theory, eh?

Besides the issue is not ‘expressing feelings’ it is violations of chastity. People can express liking or disliking for anyone (politicians are fair game! ) and this goes for everyone. Hopping into bed with someone is another story and that is what I am addressing to this thread - and why the Church is Right.

God bless

The vast majority of heterosexuals are allowed to express their feelings towards someone, on the other hand homosexuals aren’t allowed to express their feelings/

 

[Elizabeth502]

The vast majority of heterosexuals are allowed to express their feelings towards someone, on the other hand homosexuals aren’t allowed to express their feelings/

You have no statistics about “the vast majority.” Those are assumptions on your part. The divorce rate is about 50% in this country. The divorced may or may not ever find a replacement, may or may not be able to marry an adequate replacement (for a variety of reasons), may be continually frustrated in their “expression of feelings toward someone.” That’s on top of the never-married, the celibate, the seriously injured, and many more categories of physically and emotionally frustrated heterosexuals.

 

[MrSylvester]

Yes, females trend towards monogamy and males not so much (males are still obviously fully culpable for infidelity and fornication). The reason this is is that testosterone is linked to sex drive and males have lots and lots. Having children (and raising them!) drops testosterone levels quite a bit (IIRC about 1/3) so children do strengthen a marriage (obviously for two people of the same sex it isn’t going to happen). Stress overall makes sex drive in females drop and males rise.

That is honestly one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. The fact is that just as there are men who cheat on their wives or are promiscuous, then there are also women who cheat on their husbands or are promiscuous and who hate children. It has nothing to do with testosterone but everything to do with the will. If it were true that our actions are excusable because of our high testosterone levels or something, we’d be excused for having sex with everything that moves and wouldn’t be able to change our compulsions.

Also Uzziah1, sorry to sound harsh but lol, obvious troll is obvious. God is going to be more merciful towards homosexuals? Give me a break. If an actively homosexual and promiscuous person came up to me and admits that he has sex with everyone he sees and is proud of it, I’d tell him that if you homosexuals can’t control yourself and are actively fighting for society to accept their dirty practices, then they can go screw themselves as I’m not going to have parents raising their children to accept promiscuous behavior and have the family and the meaning of true love destroyed. If these homosexuals can’t make an effort to not harm themselves and to look at people as human beings and not sex objects, then screw them.

People use the same excuse, that they are too weak to resist, to justify premarital sex in the case of heterosexuals and it doesn’t work. Only married couples can have sex because sex is love and the couple is supposed to give themselves to each other for eternity. Premarital sex is false love because there is no promise that you’ll stay with your partner forever. If the sex doesn’t please you you can just leave him or her or take a third option, polyamory. Wait, polyamory isn’t true love either because you can’t give yourself whole to one person while giving yourself whole to the other. Thats why sir you’re post makes absolutely no damn sense.

 

[Wanttobefree]

I wonder if a heterosexual came on here and posted that they are struggling with premarital sex, impure thoughts, impure actions with themselves etc and genuinely looking for some support and guidance would they be met with the “stop with the pity party” jibes that appears to be a theme amongst some of the posts.

Elizabeth, with respect, you will never know the level of sufferings of a Catholic with SSA. They may well be greater than that of a hetero singleton or divorcee or whatever. I’ve already explained why this may be so. I don’t think you’re response really negated what I said.

The bottom line is this is about a lot more than just being single. It unfortunately is about prejudice, judgement, ridicule, abandonment, disowning, suppression, fear, bullying even violence.

Ask an unmarried/celibate/divorced/can’t marry for whatever reason heterosexual person if they think their lives wouldn’t be any different if they were gay. If they feel like their struggle with their being alone (if they view it as a struggle) would be pretty much the same, would it make any difference to them if they suddenly woke up a different orientation. I think we all know what they’d say.

I don’t expect you to change your opinion. You seem to have very deep seated opinions about this and won’t give an inch! I respect that you have such strength in your convictions. However I respectfully want to say that I think you are wrong, and it would serve you better to try and think a bit more laterally on this issue.

God bless

 

[Elizabeth502]

I wonder if a heterosexual came on here and posted that they are struggling with premarital sex, impure thoughts, impure actions with themselves etc and genuinely looking for some support and guidance would they be met with the “stop with the pity party” jibes that appears to be a theme amongst some of the posts.

Elizabeth, with respect, you will never know the level of sufferings of a Catholic with SSA. They may well be greater than that of a hetero singleton or divorcee or whatever.

And they may well be less so. You have no idea about any one else’s suffering from the inside (except what they tell you). This is the undeniable existential reality of every human being, regardless of one’s faith, one’s fidelity to that faith, etc. Suffering is entirely subjective. One person will be devastated to the core by divorce; another person will be able to “manage,” emotionally, the death of one’s own child or several children; another person will find alcoholism or a serious medical condition as a terminal emotional & spiritual disease, another will find similar circumstances ones that he/she can handle & triumph over, depending on native personality, the quality of community support, spiritual and emotional resources, etc. It’s a meaningless exercise to pretend to project that “my” suffering is “worse” or “more unbearable” than yours, that the “cross” of a homosexual is either easier or more difficult.

We know one thing: In faith, as Catholics, we know that God never allows us a cross that, if we turn to Him, we cannot carry. We know a second thing: that the Church has innumerable resources and graces at our disposable, especially in the person of Jesus Himself, through the sacraments.

To claim that one’s own suffering, or person X’s suffering, is “greater” or “more unbearable” than someone else’s, is frankly arrogant.

The argument I was making was not that I personally know the level of any other person’s suffering, but that objectively speaking, heterosexual Catholics who cannot canonically marry, suffer the same deprivation of sexual activity as anyone in any other prohibitive situation. And again, if the argument is that sexual deprivation is “more difficult” for the homosexual than it could possibly be for any heterosexual, think about what exactly that implies. It is not an attractive implication.

The bottom line is this is about a lot more than just being single. It unfortunately is about prejudice, judgement, ridicule, abandonment, disowning, suppression, fear, bullying even violence.

That was not the point I was contending. Prejudice, ridicule, stereotyping, etc., are different situations/conditions, and I was not arguing those. I was arguing the simple contention that it is more painful for a homosexual not to “have sex” (it’s not really “sex” but an erotic expression) than it is for a heterosexual not to “have sex.”

If you have other arguments, those were not ones I was addressing.

 

[Lokabrenna]

in other words, male homosexuality may be innately promiscuous.

So, seems like female homosexuals are in the clear! Hooray!

Actually, even if that was the assertion you made, I’m a lesbian AND a virgin, and have absolutely no desire to go have sex with every woman in sight anymore than the average heterosexual wants to have sex with every member of the opposite sex in sight. Seriously, the All Gays Are Promiscuous trope is just getting tiresome.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I was arguing the simple contention that it is more painful for a homosexual not to “have sex” (it’s not really “sex” but an erotic expression) than it is for a heterosexual not to “have sex.”

Expanding and correcting self, I was also contradicting the statements of others that supposedly only people with SSA are ever required, or always required, to “not show their true feelings.” I have enumerated above precisely who among the heterosexual community is also denied the expression of their true (romantic) feelings.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Wanttobefree,

There are really several areas that should be addressed …

I wonder if a heterosexual came on here and posted that they are struggling with premarital sex, impure thoughts, impure actions with themselves etc and genuinely looking for some support and guidance would they be met with the “stop with the pity party” jibes that appears to be a theme amongst some of the posts.

You can stop wondering… Actually, there have been many threads dealing with heterosexual chastity issues for both men and women. These people have posted how they are in a struggle, their failures and their efforts at recovery. Seeking reassurance and encouragement that one is doing the right thing is a very understandable human behavior. And, so is whining when we feel we are not getting enough or the right amount or in the manner we have determined we should get it.

For the most part, I am a pragmatist - not everything is a nail that needs to be hammered in - so finding the right tool and approach is important. Complaining about the tool is neither going to change the reality you are facing or enable you to find a Christ-centered solution.

Elizabeth, with respect, you will never know the level of sufferings of a Catholic with SSA. They may well be greater than that of a hetero singleton or divorcee or whatever.

None of us can really know the sufferings that anyone else is experiencing. While we may have several clues this is no substitute for the intimate knowledge that the sufferer experiences.

From my understandings of the posts - no one has tried to negate anyone’s pain. I do not think that anyone doubts that those with SSA are having real pain. But, honestly, the real issue is still your problem and how you are going to develop a solutioin - not how someone else has failed to meet your expectation for a response.

The bottom line is this is about a lot more than just being single. It unfortunately is about prejudice, judgement, ridicule, abandonment, disowning, suppression, fear, bullying even violence.

This is where I think you have made a major mistake, Wanttobefree. This list of tangental issues does not address the actual problem of SSA. We can claim that SSA is not really a problem at all - but, then why would anyone be responding to this thread? The problem is real and has its own internal dynamics that are a genuine cross to bear.

As you know, there are many psychological defense mechanisms that people use to address what they consider to be the problem that they want to face. The reason for the defense mechanisms is that addressing the real problem is just too painful.

Ask an unmarried/celibate/divorced/can’t marry for whatever reason heterosexual person if they think their lives wouldn’t be any different if they were gay.

Now you are guessing… so, let me guess, too. “Ask an individual with terminal lung cancer that has spread to the bone if he would rather have some other condition and guess what they would say.” or “As an individual who has suddenly experienced a sudden exacerbation of AIDS/HIV symptoms that have required hospitalization if they would rather have some other condition and guess what they would say.”

It is a very human response to think that we have the worst possible condition/situation/environment - etc - than anyone else. There are at least two types of responses that I am aware of: 1.) continue to gaze inward and become more fully surrounded by self-absorption or 2.) gaze outward and see what others are experiencing in this world that is quite painful but simply not sexual in nature. Somewhere along the line, I think we need to move toward a solution or resolution of the problem. Moving on from inward gazing to outward gazing offers more hope for a resolution in my opinion.

I don’t expect you to change your opinion. You seem to have very deep seated opinions about this and won’t give an inch

You know, Wanttobefree, I really do not expect you to change your opinion, either. From your earlier responses, there really does seem to be a deep seated opinion about self-described victimhood via SSA - and you have yet to show that you are willing to give a half-inch to move towards resolving your own problem.

I submit that lashing out at Elizabeth is simply counter-productive, after all, she was only trying to help you. As I see it, maybe if you identified what you have done to follow the Church’s teachings against homosexual behavior - that would give more opportunities for others to possibly offer some specific ideas.

This is just a suggestion. If you don’t write how you are trying to help yourself, just how do you expect total strangers to offer aid and comfort - and hopefully a viable direction to take. By way of analogy, there are some negative health conditions like measles that can be cured. There are other conditions like diabetes and hypertension that can not be cured - and the best that medical science can offer are maintenance medications. I do not think that SSA is a condition that has a pharmacologic soluiton - but, learning to live with chronic conditions is how we can enjoy the life that we have.

God bless

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Elizabeth502,

Great post!

God bless

And they may well be less so. You have no idea about any one else’s suffering from the inside (except what they tell you). This is the undeniable existential reality of every human being, regardless of one’s faith, one’s fidelity to that faith, etc. Suffering is entirely subjective. One person will be devastated to the core by divorce; another person will be able to “manage,” emotionally, the death of one’s own child or several children; another person will find alcoholism or a serious medical condition as a terminal emotional & spiritual disease, another will find similar circumstances ones that he/she can handle & triumph over, depending on native personality, the quality of community support, spiritual and emotional resources, etc. It’s a meaningless exercise to pretend to project that “my” suffering is “worse” or “more unbearable” than yours, that the “cross” of a homosexual is either easier or more difficult.

We know one thing: In faith, as Catholics, we know that God never allows us a cross that, if we turn to Him, we cannot carry. We know a second thing: that the Church has innumerable resources and graces at our disposable, especially in the person of Jesus Himself, through the sacraments.

To claim that one’s own suffering, or person X’s suffering, is “greater” or “more unbearable” than someone else’s, is frankly arrogant.

The argument I was making was not that I personally know the level of any other person’s suffering, but that objectively speaking, heterosexual Catholics who cannot canonically marry, suffer the same deprivation of sexual activity as anyone in any other prohibitive situation. And again, if the argument is that sexual deprivation is “more difficult” for the homosexual than it could possibly be for any heterosexual, think about what exactly that implies. It is not an attractive implication.

That was not the point I was contending. Prejudice, ridicule, stereotyping, etc., are different situations/conditions, and I was not arguing those. I was arguing the simple contention that it is more painful for a homosexual not to “have sex” (it’s not really “sex” but an erotic expression) than it is for a heterosexual not to “have sex.”

If you have other arguments, those were not ones I was addressing.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Lokabrenna,

I think we have progressed sufficiently to at least see that such general stereotypes are beyond tiresome - they are simply not valid.

God bless

So, seems like female homosexuals are in the clear! Hooray!

Actually, even if that was the assertion you made, I’m a lesbian AND a virgin, and have absolutely no desire to go have sex with every woman in sight anymore than the average heterosexual wants to have sex with every member of the opposite sex in sight. Seriously, the All Gays Are Promiscuous trope is just getting tiresome.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Uzziah, I wanted to address some of the points you brought up. The following theory actually has a lot of reinforcement in the clinical studies of male homosexuals

First, I beluieve that homosexual feelings are pre-wired. I think that vis-a-vis male gays Joseph Nicolosi may be correct: The were “super male kids” who at around age 4 indelibly imprinted with their mothers’ sexual predelictions – men – because their fathers were either emotionally unavailable or simply rarely home. Gays commonly deny this because it implies trhat their homosexual feelings are a dysfunction.

They are a dysfunction.

It’s clear that the syndrome is a dysfunctional one, and I do agree that – referring to a later post of yours – homosexual attraction is not just a parallel of heterosexual attraction, and that also corresponds to the clinical experience of those who work with this population. I do not necessarily agree with this statement, though, which you are projecting from what you’ve read:

Second, I believe that male homosexuality is innately promiscuous.

even though I agree with the somatic disorder aspect, because all disorders unbalance us; that is one of the features of a disorder, often including relentless attraction to that disorder, and to organizing his or her life and behavior around that.

What clinicians are acquainted with is the particularly “binding” nature of the attraction, especially once activated. Again, that is not different from other disorders which bind and eventually enslave us unless we make structured, disciplined, aware efforts to undo those enslavements with the help of psychology and God’s grace. (We may not be able to “undo” an attraction – of any category – but we can keep wayward attractions “in their place” by refusing to activate them or allowing them to control us.)

But that does not necessarily equal promiscuity. It can (just as an addiction to heterosexual porn can manifest in extramarital affairs, a rejection of marital sex, a rejection of any normalized sexual life). But I don’t think there is research that homosexual promiscuity, even just among males, is inevitable or predicted.

Further, “pre-wired” connotes to me something determined, even “genetic,” and to date there is insufficent and contradictory data about that. Age 4 is not necessarily “pre-wired.” Rather, what researchers have discovered is how crucial the first three years of a boy’s life are, in terms of patterning and in terms of full paternal acceptance. That speaks to environment much more than hard-wiring. I say that because there are plenty of males with innately non-standard, idiosyncratic manifestations of maleness who did not drift into homosexuality, whose fathers were emotionally available and nonjudgmentally accepting, and whose mothers were not domineering or “replacement Dads.” They matured into men with normal heterosexual inclinations (and no bixsexuality), even while retaining a “softer” version of maleness.

I believe that male homosexuals tend to be less morally liable for promiscuous sexual behavior in the eyes of God than male straights.

Maybe. Maybe not. Depends (as in all moral theology) the degree of knowledge and the engagement of the will, which are the other two necessary requirements of moral culpability in the Roman Church. But since we know from the Church’s guidance by the Holy Spirit, and from Jesus’ fidelity to Jewish Law, that Jesus reinforced the sexual aspects of Jewish Law (and even deepened those), there is no question that homosexual activity is a grave offense against God. To assume that God will “deal gently” with homosexual behavior – especially in those who have the knowledge from Catholicism, etc-- is a dangerous assumption. (We don’t need to worry about what God will or will not do to or with others; we need only worry about our own sins & behaviors & addictions; nevertheless, we do not pre-judge that there will be no repercussions for anyone who persists in any kind of sin or disorder; it is our duty to speak the truth even if others reject that. )

The following has already been addressed elsewhere on CAF. Please do not resurrect the myth that Jesus was anachronistically beckoning to contemporary sexual theory. This is not at all the meaning of Mt 19:12.

I believe that Christ Himself very gently criticizes homosexual behavior in one of the gospels, when He refers to those who are “born eunuchs,” Matthew 19:12. Note that if those terms do indeed refer to homosexuality – and I believe that they do – there is implied in them a presumption that they will not engage in sexual behavior (in accord with Leviticus).

I appreciate the latter acknowledgement, but Jesus is not referring to “born homosexuals,” as they had no concept of that in the ancient Mediterraneean. But again, that is derailing the thread into a subject that has already been discussed elsewhere.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Again correcting and clarifying self:

Let’s be clear, though, that the fact that homosexual activity/coupling is not necessarily predictive of promiscuity does not mean that the reverse is true, which is the myth that is constantly paraded by the Gay Lobby in America: That homosexual couples are overwhelmingly monogamous (at least as much, supposedly, as married heterosexuals). The research does not support that, either. There are plenty of “open relationships” among homosexual couples. Plenty.

I would find it doubtful that older homosexual males (say, cohabiting with another male) are more promiscuous, as a population than young, single, non-cohabiting heterosexual males, who are notoriously promiscuous as a population. Most young heterosexual women have experienced (and suffered through) that! And that behavior by young heterosexual men is still very culturally accepted, of course.

 

[Wanttobefree]

1. I was not “lashing out” at Elizabeth. I was pointing out areas where I think her argument is wrong. I think my tone was respectful. If you feel it was “lashing out” then I wonder what you make of her “pity party” jibes etc.
2. I am developing a solution. I am chaste, I receive the sacraments regularly, I have a spiritual director and I am praying more than I’ve ever prayed before. I am also on this site seeking help and guidance, which thankfully I am getting a lot of through private messaging.
3. The list of “tangental issues” is important. Because, while Elizabeth is only using sexual deprivation as the comparison between those with SSA and those who can’t marry or have sex for other reasons, I am saying that there are more reasons than just that to cause a person with SSA to suffer. Sure, those other heteros may have more sufferings in their lives, but that does not deny the fact that these issues exist for people with SSA and is entirely out of their control.
4. I am not using a psychological defense mechanism. I am addressing my problem as pragmatically, spiritually and honestly as I can. I am not looking for pity from you or from anyone else.
5. “Ask a person with terminal lung cancer that spread to the bone if they would rather have some other condition and guess what they would say”. I would guess that if the other condition seemed less painful or less of a struggle to them they would say yes please. I was comparing two very distinct groups of people, heteros who can’t marry someone and people with SSA who can’t marry someone. Make a choice which group would you like to be in, or does it make a difference. Comparing illnesses is not the same, they have different prognosis, treatments, pain levels etc etc.
6. Again, I am not playing a victim card. I am doing a lot myself to resolve these issues. If you asked earlier I would’ve told you. If I offered without asking perhaps I would be playing the hero card. I am willing to give a mile towards resolving my problem. Some people have messaged me with suggestions and tips which have been helpful and supportive. Others have just argued that there are a lot of suffers in the world and why am I any different. “Deal with it”.
7. Part of the reason I continue to post on here is to give perspective from someone in my situation to help other Catholics understand what it is we go through. You can like it or you can deny it. Comparing it to Diabetes or hypertension or another chronic illness shows just how alien this is to you. I have accepted that it is something you just won’t understand so I bid you farewell.
8. Thank you to everyone who has messaged me on here with advice and tips and particularly with messages of prayer and support. I appreciate all of them. God bless.

 

[Curious_Seed]

The only reason why I’m writing this is because I’m sick and tired of being called ‘evil’ just because of my sexual orientation.

I strongly believe I’m a loving person. I love my life, my family and friends. ALL human beings are creatures of love, no matter what they are attracted to.

At the end of the day that’s all it is, a sexual orientation. Just because I’m gay doesnt mean I’m ‘evil’. I’m tired of the Catholic Church in particular persuading people that it’s wrong. It is not, nor has it ever been.

In reference to another thread about gay couples being allowed to adopt, to quote one of this websites answers “Adoption is for the benefit of the child involved”. Are you saying a child is better to be in a foster home rather than be adopted by a same-sex couple? I am telling you that any child would be lucky to have two dads or two mothers.

Homosexuality is not contagious, its not caused by mothers ‘loving’ their child that bit too much. I was born this way.

I always wonder why the Church continues this mentality, when thousands of people (teenagers in particular) are committing suicide because they can’t live with being gay because YOU are telling them they are evil?

I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.
-Johnny

Condemning Catholics should not be a surprise to you.

Still, homosexuality is not to be condoned either.

Whether by genes or by influence or both, homosexuality is a sin, for all Christians who read the Epistles with reverence.

So, as with any sin, what is the what-to-do with your homosexuality?

Christ does not consider you evil and loves you, as all sinners [no more and no less].

Does not the Book of Jeremiah tells us the Lord has plans for each life?

Well, if Jesus is Lord, Jesus is Lord of any sin, including homosexuality.

Would it not be a consideration to approach God and derive the wherewithal for this cross you bear?

You have your own ideas, but what are God’s personal counsel to you, as an individual?

The Holy Spirit is our Paraclete not only for understanding Scripture, but with the nuts-an-bolts of this daily living - or is that not your experience?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Wanttobefree,

Let me address three of the items you brought up and hopefully you can provide responses that will help my understanding.

1. I am developing a solution. I am chaste, I receive the sacraments regularly, I have a spiritual director and I am praying more than I’ve ever prayed before. I am also on this site seeking help and guidance, which thankfully I am getting a lot of through private messaging.

I really am quite happy for you that you are chaste, receive the sacraments regularly, have a spiritual director and are praying more now than before! This really does sound like an excellent plan/solution. Is there anything that members on the list can help you with?

1. … Some people have messaged me with suggestions and tips which have been helpful and supportive. Others have just argued that there are a lot of suffers in the world and why am I any different. “Deal with it”.

One of the concerns I have had for many years is the, “You don’t understand / respect me or my condition” approach tht the Gay advocates have promoted. While each of us is an individual - there really are patterns of behavior that can be recognized. Identifying as so unique that only those with a similar condition can understand or respect someone with the condition is really a type of boasting. There really are others who have great sufferings including religious and ethnic persecutions, murders, kidnappings, torture. When we isolate one type of problem and suffering it has caused from all others, I think it is important to understand why this is being done. Are we working for a cure - like for breast cancer, or are we demanding things from others that are not ours to demand - like recognition for SS ‘marriage’? This is really a difficult issue. No one doubted that that breast cancer is a disorder and that with money and research, a cure will probably be found. Note: prior to 1973 homosexuality was considered a disorder by the Am Psychiatric Association. I am not aware of anyone working for a cure to this disorder - because APA has declared it isn’t a disorder. But, just look around at the devestation and lack of order, caused by this non-disorder. It appears to me that there are major problems as a result of this APA decision - and now there are legal aspects that have developed (e.g., same-sex marriage)

1. Part of the reason I continue to post on here is to give perspective from someone in my situation to help other Catholics understand what it is we go through. You can like it or you can deny it. Comparing it to Diabetes or hypertension or another chronic illness shows just how alien this is to you. I have accepted that it is something you just won’t understand so I bid you farewell.

Sharing one’s perspective with others is a good idea. Not everyone has the same perspective and this is where dialogue develops. It isn’t that SSA isn’t a problem or isn’t causing you pain. The thread you have joined is an effort to identify that the Catholic Chruch is wrong on its position of homosexuality - and I do not think you have really addressed this topic. My understanding of the steps you have taken as identified in Item #2 above is that you are keeping within the bounds set by the Church for a chaste life. So, the idea, I think, is that the Church is correct. Your posts have primarily identified the pains that you are suffereing from SSA.

I have worked with many people with serious chronic conditions - and they really do have pain. But, while you reject the idea that SSA is a chornic condition, you are seeking help. I have seen diabetics who have rejected their diagnosis, rejected the idea that unless they work with their doctor (diet, exercise, medication) they will suffer serious disability and death. I have seen diabetics who truly yearned for sugar and carbohydrates constantly - and living in a world that actively promotes foods high in both! I even saw one diabetic who opened up a pint bottle of Kayro syrup and began to drink it!! Patients have rights to do things that can harm them - and unless it is outright suicide, nurses can not do much but notify the doctor. People respond differently to different conditions - but there really are patterns - both in denying there is a problem and in accepting there is a problem.

Feel free to respond.

God bless

 

[Wanttobefree]

**I really am quite happy for you that you are chaste, receive the sacraments regularly, have a spiritual director and are praying more now than before! This really does sound like an excellent plan/solution. Is there anything that members on the list can help you with?

Thank you. You can pray for me. Some members on this list who are either struggling with SSA themselves or who knows people who are and have helped them or who just see a person in pain and want to offer their support have messaged me with things that they have found useful in their lives to overcome unwanted desires. That was welcome. I think for you to help you’d have to just see my postings for what they are though and recognize that I am just a hurting person looking for hope and healing and not looking to legitimize any behaviour or undermine anybody else’s suffering but, again with respect, I’m not sure if the pragmatist or straight shooter by which you’ve described yourself really can allow you do that. That’s just your personality, the world is full of different personalities, that’s OK. I don’t need everyone to be supportive. Sometimes it’s better not to say anything at all

**
There really are others who have great sufferings including religious and ethnic persecutions, murders, kidnappings, torture. When we isolate one type of problem and suffering it has caused from all others, I think it is important to understand why this is being done. **

Again, I know, I know, I know. I know that there are great sufferings in the world. I’m not denying them for a second. To me mine certainly feels like one of them. I just cannot imagine a worse situation for me to be in in my current circumstances. People cope differently, I agree. I find it hard to cope with loneliness and despair. And that is what I feel like my future will be, especially when all of this gets out into the open. I would prefer to have a medical illness. Sometimes I would prefer if Jesus would just take me in my sleep. That is the extent of this suffering TO ME. Maybe it’s not the same for everyone but from a lot of people in my situation who have messaged me on here, it seems to be the same for them.
**

Are we working for a cure - like for breast cancer, or are we demanding things from others that are not ours to demand - like recognition for SS ‘marriage’? This is really a difficult issue. No one doubted that that breast cancer is a disorder and that with money and research, a cure will probably be found. Note: prior to 1973 homosexuality was considered a disorder by the Am Psychiatric Association. I am not aware of anyone working for a cure to this disorder - because APA has declared it isn’t a disorder. But, just look around at the devestation and lack of order, caused by this non-disorder. It appears to me that there are major problems as a result of this APA decision - and now there are legal aspects that have developed (e.g., same-sex marriage) **

Tim, this is irrelevant to me. I don’t care what the APA has to say about this. It doesn’t change my situation. Whether genetic or environmental, whether disordered or not whether same-sex marriage is allowed or not doesn’t help me. I am against same-sex marriage. I follow the Church’s teaching and believe it is right. For whatever reason I am like this and I have to do my best with it and am trying to do so. I am not debating same-sex marriage. I don’t know if this is a disorder or not but even if it is, practically what does that mean for me? A cure? Change? I wish. I’ve read and prayed and sought therapy about this to the point where the only peace I would get would be when I am so tired from thinking about it that I can’t think about it anymore. The peace is short-lived until my energy levels return and the cycle starts again. I do not deny that people out there have claimed to have changed. More power to them. Maybe one day it will happen for me, but as of right now I can’t see that happening.

The thread you have joined is an effort to identify that the Catholic Chruch is wrong on its position of homosexuality - and I do not think you have really addressed this topic. My understanding of the steps you have taken as identified in Item #2 above is that you are keeping within the bounds set by the Church for a chaste life. So, the idea, I think, is that the Church is correct. Your posts have primarily identified the pains that you are suffereing from SSA.

Then I’m sorry if I’m on the wrong thread. Is there one on here for people like me and I’ll go post there. I only wanted to offer a difference of opinion to some of the comments that were made on this thread which I felt were not helpful. As you say - that’s dialogue.

**But, while you reject the idea that SSA is a chornic condition, you are seeking help. I have seen diabetics who have rejected their diagnosis, rejected the idea that unless they work with their doctor (diet, exercise, medication) they will suffer serious disability and death. I have seen diabetics who truly yearned for sugar and carbohydrates constantly - and living in a world that actively promotes foods high in both! **

If by chronic you mean long lasting/reoccuring than I do agree that it is a chronic condition. I just don’t see it as a medical condition that with treatment you can halter, regress or cure. And I say that as an MD. The fundamental difference is that this is a spiritual struggle which makes it unique. I have feelings that are in direct opposition to the teachings of the God and the Church that I wholeheartedly believe in. I cannot reconcile these with my faith or my family and friends, I never once asked for them and I can’t get rid of them. It is nothing like Diabetes which I treat every day of my life.

I’m not sure if I did the quote thing correctly. Hopefully it’ll work/**

 

[RACJ]

Johnny, I am sorry for your struggles, but wrong is wrong. No matter how many “experts” tell us that homosexuality is normal, it will never be so. Now, sadly, young boys who have no male role model to instill a sense of security and approval in them are preyed upon by the culture. There are millions of these boys in America today. There is always some creep out there at the ready to take advantage of that situation sexually. Thus ensues a lifetime of confusion.
With girls, we are told that guys like to see a little girl on girl action. Well GOOD men looking for wives do NOT want to have to worry that their mate may turn toward women after children are born. One young woman was depressed for months b/c the man she was dating caught her in a lip lock with another girl after work, and he dumped her. She had believed the big lie.
Let me be clear: EVERYONE has struggle with SOME sin. AND, no person is completely normal. I can’t encapsulate everything here, but I do wish you a fruitful road to happiness following God’s path. Rob

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Wanttobefree,

It worked

Now, you may want to start your own thread that really captures the throughts you want to express. Piggy-backing on this one has genuine limitations. I edited the post because it exceeded the 6,000 character limit.

God bless

I really am quite happy for you that you are chaste, receive the sacraments regularly, have a spiritual director and are praying more now than before! This really does sound like an excellent plan/solution. Is there anything that members on the list can help you with?

Thank you. You can pray for me. Some members on this list who are either struggling with SSA themselves or who knows people who are and have helped them or who just see a person in pain and want to offer their support have messaged me with things that they have found useful in their lives to overcome unwanted desires. That was welcome. I think for you to help you’d have to just see my postings for what they are though and recognize that I am just a hurting person looking for hope and healing and not looking to legitimize any behaviour or undermine anybody else’s suffering but, again with respect, I’m not sure if the pragmatist or straight shooter by which you’ve described yourself really can allow you do that. That’s just your personality, the world is full of different personalities, that’s OK. I don’t need everyone to be supportive. Sometimes it’s better not to say anything at all

 

[Wanttobefree]

I’m not sure what you mean by “it worked” but I’m glad I don’t need to strain my brain in reply to your post I need a rest from all of this thinking.

I’m sure you’re a good decent man. I commend you for being strong in your faith. Well done.

I will go on as best I can. I don’t know what the future holds but I know I need to trust in God who loves me.

I received one of the most heartfelt and sympathetic messages tonight from a complete stranger that really touched my heart. It never ceases to amaze me how loving the Catholic community is. God bless you all, you have hearts bigger than you will ever know.

Peace.