Homosexuality And Why The Church Is Wrong

[Gertabelle]

I have been thinking about homosexuality and the Church a lot lately and I think that it is wrong to compare SSA with these other afflictions. Being homosexual and Catholic is, I believe, one of the hardest and most depressing “crosses” in the world. The feeling of knowing that you can never feel proper love or never have a family and will live in a constant state of loneliness and despair for the rest of your life is quite overwhelming. I know there are many single people in the world but this is not the same. They always can live in hope. **For us there is very little, or no hope. **Trying to reconcile your faith with your sexual inclinations (that you really really feel you were sometimes born with) is so extremely difficult.

Thanks for listening.

As a woman who lived as an “out and proud” lesbian for ten years, I would like to offer you some hope, as slight as it may be.

God gradually an imperceptibly led me away from the GLBTT world, and gradually and imperceptibly changed my heart and my inclinations. Today, just over 20 years from when I first began identifying myself as a lesbian and began walking away from the Church – I can tell you with complete honesty that I have NO feelings of SSA, thanks be to God and His grace.

I don’t have a magic solution, I just know that healing and change ARE possible. You were not born this way, in spite of what society would tell you.

In spite of not knowing you, I so dearly love you and feel your pain. I will be holding you so close to my heart, in my daily prayers and sacrifices. You are doing what I never had the courage to do in my days of SSA – to choose God’s plan. May He bless you for your faithfulness and courage. And I will pray He sends you friends who will love and understand you. One of my closest friends now, and my son’s godmother, knew me when I first “came out” in college, and though we had no contact for ten years, God reunited us upon my return to the Church. It’s such a great gift to have friend who knows my past and who was praying for me all those years.

St. Aelred, please pray for all of my brothers and sisters in Christ who are striving to live the teachings of Holy Mother Church, to serve God in faithful obedience. Through your holy intercession, may God grant them holy friendships to sustain them on their journey through this life. St. Basil and St. Gregory, pray for us!

Gertie
(ps. feel free to send me a private message if you’d like to “talk” more!)

 

[Elizabeth502]

I just know that healing and change ARE possible. You were not born this way, in spite of what society would tell you.

And of course, saying that does not mean that any of us trivializes the struggle and personal “death” involved in healing and change. Politics may be the art of the possible, but God’s grace is the truth and the reality of the possible – the possible that became incarnate in His Son. To say that, again, is not to imply that anyone’s personal struggle with any internal demons – which each of us has, differently – does not involve personal crucifixion. Transformation eventually leads to transfiguration, but getting there (the transforming part) requires “descending into hell” and confronting those demons.

So what I’m trying to say is that perhaps having SSA is a singular opportunity for transformation that those without it may not feel required to engage in. Most people manage their lives, and even their spirituality, within a comfort zone because they can. But something which disquiets us and threatens to control our lives unless we address it – offers us a path to true personal liberation.

Just some thoughts…

 

[BobCatholic]

The only reason why I’m writing this is because I’m sick and tired of being called ‘evil’ just because of my sexual orientation.

Talk about completely misinterpreting what the Catholic Church says.

 

[Wanttobefree]

As a woman who lived as an “out and proud” lesbian for ten years, I would like to offer you some hope, as slight as it may be.

God gradually an imperceptibly led me away from the GLBTT world, and gradually and imperceptibly changed my heart and my inclinations. Today, just over 20 years from when I first began identifying myself as a lesbian and began walking away from the Church – I can tell you with complete honesty that I have NO feelings of SSA, thanks be to God and His grace.

I don’t have a magic solution, I just know that healing and change ARE possible. You were not born this way, in spite of what society would tell you.

In spite of not knowing you, I so dearly love you and feel your pain. I will be holding you so close to my heart, in my daily prayers and sacrifices. You are doing what I never had the courage to do in my days of SSA – to choose God’s plan. May He bless you for your faithfulness and courage. And I will pray He sends you friends who will love and understand you. One of my closest friends now, and my son’s godmother, knew me when I first “came out” in college, and though we had no contact for ten years, God reunited us upon my return to the Church. It’s such a great gift to have friend who knows my past and who was praying for me all those years.

St. Aelred, please pray for all of my brothers and sisters in Christ who are striving to live the teachings of Holy Mother Church, to serve God in faithful obedience. Through your holy intercession, may God grant them holy friendships to sustain them on their journey through this life. St. Basil and St. Gregory, pray for us!

Gertie
(ps. feel free to send me a private message if you’d like to “talk” more!)

Thank you. I appreciate your prayers so so much. I am trying my best for change but I would even settle for peace at this stage, however that may come.

 

[mark58]

Hi, Mark58,

Actually, in my opinion, you are actively delusional.

You may be actively homosexual - but you simply can not be a practicing Catholic.

Of course, you can play at being a Catholic - make up your own rules, decide you are right and the Church is wrong, live as you please and then try to convince others that this is the way to go.

So, I guess it is really past time to unmask and end the deception for yourself. But, you can really stop trying to deceive others right now.

God bless

Thank you so much for your OPINION on how I’m living my life and practising my religion. All OPINIONS are always welcome. God bless.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Mark58,

You are more than welcomed.

As you probably know, I can back up everythiing I told you. Here is a link you may want to review specific to the actual teachings of the Catholic Church: scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Your attention is specifically directed to this section: scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm#2357

God bless

Thank you so much for your OPINION on how I’m living my life and practising my religion. All OPINIONS are always welcome. God bless.

 

[mark58]

Again, thank you, but I don’t need to review. I’m very happy and content in my life, knowing that Jesus loves me. But again, I thank you. God bless.

 

[Lochias]

Again, thank you, but I don’t need to review. I’m very happy and content in my life, knowing that Jesus loves me. But again, I thank you. God bless.

Jesus certainly loves you, no one is disputing that. However, willfully choosing to omit important aspects of your sins to Him and His priest, and thus render the priest unable to truly aid you, seems to me to be a very definite sign that you don’t love Jesus nearly as much as He loves you.

I would think this makes Jesus rather heartbroken.

 

[mitex]

Troll, troll, troll. Who called the troll?

Michelle just because someone has a different opinion of you doesn’t mean they’re a troll. Take the speak out of your own eye before you go around judging Mark for being a troll. He merely has a difference of opinion from most people. I don’t think that is illegal. Just as you are free to have your belief in traditional Catholic teachings on sexuality, Mark has the right to believe what he wants.

Now as for Mark some friendly word of advice. CAF is rather conservative on a whole on issues of sexuality. I mean you’ve got some heavy duty people here who support things like ex-gays and Courage (not that they’re wrong).

People come on here everyday ill informed about the Church’s teachings on sexuality and it gets them into trouble. They argue and argue and then the folks like Michelle push back even harder. Feelings are hurt and unneeded judgement is pronounced.

I don’t take quite the view many like Michelle but this is a Catholic forum adhering to traditional teachings. Needless debate (which has already been settled in past posts) over the same things only leads to more fractures.

Instead of arguing over homosexuality why not find a forum thread on something that agrees with you.

I admit even people like Michelle who I disagreed with in the past (and still today) have shown remarkable faith and courage in maintaining their beliefs and faith, as I’m sure you have too Mark.

Fighting never solves anything. The only time when I get involved in homosexuality is to dispel stereotypes such as now. Carry on folks!

 

[Gertabelle]

The only time when I get involved in homosexuality is to dispel stereotypes such as now.

And what stereotype were you dispelling here? Sorry, but 200 students tromping in and out of my classroom today has left my brain a bit like jello

Gert

 

[mitex]

And what stereotype were you dispelling here? Sorry, but 200 students tromping in and out of my classroom today has left my brain a bit like jello

Gert

This is a recent development on my part. I used to argue endlessly about homosexuality and then I decided I’d only post when people said things like “troll troll troll!” in response to someone who disagreed with you.

Just because Mark isn’t following your teachings on homosexuality doesn’t make him a troll.

Unless of course Michelle was joking and then in that case I apologize.

 

[Gertabelle]

This is a recent development on my part. I used to argue endlessly about homosexuality and then I decided I’d only post when people said things like “troll troll troll!” in response to someone who disagreed with you.

Just because Mark isn’t following your teachings on homosexuality doesn’t make him a troll.

Unless of course Michelle was joking and then in that case I apologize.

Ohhh. Got it now. Duh. Maybe I should just go to sleep?

:yawn:

Thanks!

Gertie

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Mitex,

You bring up two excellent points:

1.) Name calling is not appropriate - I had taken it for a good natured joke, but not every one did. While I do not think any harm was intended, it did cross the line in my opinion.

2.) I took the liberty of highlighting the last sentence of your first paragraph, because I think it beautifully captures the fundamental difference between the Catholic Faith and Protestant beliefs. IF Mark were a Protestant, you’d be correct - he is free to believe anyting and everything he wants, interpret Scripture as he sees fit and change churches when the preacher does not agree with Mark’s current thinking - just like any Protestant is free to do! Catholics can not claim any of those items - and still be Catholic.

No one - even Mark - can have it both ways. He either believes what the Catholic Church teaches or by not believe he is not a practiing Catholic. I understand such an approach is NOT even close to what most (if not almost all) Protestant groups teach - and this is probably a rather alien concept. But, just take a look at how Christ responded to those who chose to do things their own way.

In John 6:22-70 after the multiplication of the loaves and fishes, we find the Jews had followed Christ in an effort to get another free meal. Christ rebuffs them for being motivated by greed and missing the point of His preaching. After Christ tells those listening to Him that they must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood to have life - they reject this teaching, claim it is ‘…a hard saying and who can listen to it’ and then walk away not to follow Christ again. You do not see Christ running after these non-believers telling them it was a misunderstanding. He lets them walk - and they freely walk away from Christ. Apparently, many left Christ that day - and this is the first time we hear of people leaving Christ strictly becaue of a doctrinal issue. Christ turns to His Apostles to ask if they too were going to walk out on Him. Peter asks Christ, “Where shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.”

Homosexual behavior is clearly condemned by both the OT and NT. The Church founded by Christ on Peter has clearly condemned this disordered behavior. Claiming that I as an individual am free to act as I please because “Jesus loves me,” is profoundly delusional. I say this because Christ clearly tells us that if we love Him we will keep His Commandments (John 14:15). This is quite different from, for example, ‘If you say you love me you can do anything you fancy and that’s ok’ - And, if you have any doubts about this - just read the 25th Chapter of Matthew. Here are three parables of people who thought they were ‘ok’ but weren’t - and paid the price of eternal damnation for their self-deception, laziness, indifference and other assorted failings.

Mark’s post is simply boasting that he can do anything he wants because he likes the way it feels and that is the only criteria to satisfy. This is not what Christ taught - and that is a fact and not an OPINION. Let me invite you to look at the links I provided previosly - especially the second one which goes into detail about the 6th Commandment.

God bless

Michelle just because someone has a different opinion of you doesn’t mean they’re a troll. Take the speak out of your own eye before you go around judging Mark for being a troll. He merely has a difference of opinion from most people. I don’t think that is illegal. Just as you are free to have your belief in traditional Catholic teachings on sexuality, Mark has the right to believe what he wants.
Now as for Mark some friendly word of advice. CAF is rather conservative on a whole on issues of sexuality. I mean you’ve got some heavy duty people here who support things like ex-gays and Courage (not that they’re wrong).

People come on here everyday ill informed about the Church’s teachings on sexuality and it gets them into trouble. They argue and argue and then the folks like Michelle push back even harder. Feelings are hurt and unneeded judgement is pronounced.

I don’t take quite the view many like Michelle but this is a Catholic forum adhering to traditional teachings. Needless debate (which has already been settled in past posts) over the same things only leads to more fractures.

Instead of arguing over homosexuality why not find a forum thread on something that agrees with you.

I admit even people like Michelle who I disagreed with in the past (and still today) have shown remarkable faith and courage in maintaining their beliefs and faith, as I’m sure you have too Mark.

Fighting never solves anything. The only time when I get involved in homosexuality is to dispel stereotypes such as now. Carry on folks!

 

[mitex]

Hi, Mitex,

You bring up two excellent points:

1.) Name calling is not appropriate - I had taken it for a good natured joke, but not every one did. While I do not think any harm was intended, it did cross the line in my opinion.

2.) I took the liberty of highlighting the last sentence of your first paragraph, because I think it beautifully captures the fundamental difference between the Catholic Faith and Protestant beliefs. IF Mark were a Protestant, you’d be correct - he is free to believe anyting and everything he wants, interpret Scripture as he sees fit and change churches when the preacher does not agree with Mark’s current thinking - just like any Protestant is free to do! Catholics can not claim any of those items - and still be Catholic.

No one - even Mark - can have it both ways. He either believes what the Catholic Church teaches or by not believe he is not a practiing Catholic. I understand such an approach is NOT even close to what most (if not almost all) Protestant groups teach - and this is probably a rather alien concept. But, just take a look at how Christ responded to those who chose to do things their own way.

In John 6:22-70 after the multiplication of the loaves and fishes, we find the Jews had followed Christ in an effort to get another free meal. Christ rebuffs them for being motivated by greed and missing the point of His preaching. After Christ tells those listening to Him that they must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood to have life - they reject this teaching, claim it is ‘…a hard saying and who can listen to it’ and then walk away not to follow Christ again. You do not see Christ running after these non-believers telling them it was a misunderstanding. He lets them walk - and they freely walk away from Christ. Apparently, many left Christ that day - and this is the first time we hear of people leaving Christ strictly becaue of a doctrinal issue. Christ turns to His Apostles to ask if they too were going to walk out on Him. Peter asks Christ, “Where shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.”

Homosexual behavior is clearly condemned by both the OT and NT. The Church founded by Christ on Peter has clearly condemned this disordered behavior. Claiming that I as an individual am free to act as I please because “Jesus loves me,” is profoundly delusional. I say this because Christ clearly tells us that if we love Him we will keep His Commandments (John 14:15). This is quite different from, for example, ‘If you say you love me you can do anything you fancy and that’s ok’ - And, if you have any doubts about this - just read the 25th Chapter of Matthew. Here are three parables of people who thought they were ‘ok’ but weren’t - and paid the price of eternal damnation for their self-deception, laziness, indifference and other assorted failings.

Mark’s post is simply boasting that he can do anything he wants because he likes the way it feels and that is the only criteria to satisfy. This is not what Christ taught - and that is a fact and not an OPINION. Let me invite you to look at the links I provided previosly - especially the second one which goes into detail about the 6th Commandment.

God bless

Rather harsh about it. If I recall from my RCIA days the Church supports the right to freedom of speech, worship, and belief. If Mark chooses to spurn Catholic teaching so be it. That’s his choice and that’s what I was getting at.

I was never calling into question the Church’s teachings. He still has a fundamental free will and right to disagree. And even then he is still a human being with dignity, worth, and God’s love just as much as you, or I (And I’m an RCIA dropout protestant!). As for him and his sexual ethics well that’s between him and God.

We’re all sinners regardless of what we do. You’re a sinner. I’m a sinner. I think we get carried away on this issue of homosexuality because there’s way other sins out there than that. His issues are with him and God.

Your legalism has to go.

 

[Elizabeth502]

If I recall from my RCIA days the Church supports the right to freedom of speech, worship, and belief. If Mark chooses to spurn Catholic teaching so be it. That’s his choice and that’s what I was getting at.

The Church does not support the “right” of Catholics to practice whatever form of Catholicism they choose to invent, and to disregard the necessary preparation for approaching the sacraments. One can “spurn Catholic teaching” by leaving the Church, temporariy or permanently, but that, according to what the poster said, does not seem to be what he is doing: rather he’s claiming his own definition of Catholicism.

I am an openly gay man and a Catholic. I attend daily mass and receive communion every day. I am certainly not celibate. When I go to confession, I confess promiscuity, but I do not specify that I am gay. Because being gay in and of itself is not a sin, it’s how I was born. If the sex is a sin, then I confess it as promiscuity. Period. People ask me why I don’t practice another religion. I was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school as a child. It’s the only religion I’m comfortable with. I always feel wonderful when I leave mass; I never feel unwelcome. I certainly never feel that I’m damning my immortal soul because I receive the Eucharist. On the contrary, I feel uplifted and happy. Please don’t inundate me with messages trying to “save me”. I know God loves me and does not condemn me. I will continue to live my life the way I do, continue to attend daily mass and continue to receive communion. It makes me feel good. End of story.

**^ ** = A “religion” of private feelings, which has nothing in common with the religion of the Roman Church. Feelings as “the end of the story” is not the definition of a practicing Catholic.

 

[St_Paul_Groupie]

Hey that’s the way it is for Catholics…perhaps you’d be more comfortable as an Episcopalian?

Unfortunately, it is that attitude right there that drives people from the Church. We want people to stay and grow, not leave. It is very unfortunate that you chose to reject a fellow Catholic instead of being kind to him. Shame on you.

 

[oldbrit2009]

Well, I was reading another post in another thread where a man said he saw an openly lesbian woman, who lives with her partner, receive communion in their church. He was incensed, and was going to speak to the pastor about barring her from communion. All these other posters backed him up saying that yes, he had to do that, he had an obligation to save her from having her soul damned to hell. Huh? Really? Jesus would send a woman to hell because she’s a lesbian and received communion? I don’t think so. And I don’t think any of these posters had “good Christian values” in mind. They’re like a bunch of narrow minded small town gossips who just love to make trouble. So to answer your question, I deliberately joined this site simply to proclaim that I’m actively homosexual and actively Catholic. And I, personally, have no problem reconciling the two. I don’t think Jesus thinks I should be damned to hell for receiving his body every day. And if those earlier hypocrites are gnashing their teeth right now, reading this, so much the better. They can’t report ME to MY pastor now can they? God bless.

Mark,
I have to ask you this question, do you actually know what the Catholic Church teaches on the subject of homosexual behaviour?

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Michelle just because someone has a different opinion of you doesn’t mean they’re a troll. Take the speak out of your own eye before you go around judging Mark for being a troll. He merely has a difference of opinion from most people. I don’t think that is illegal. Just as you are free to have your belief in traditional Catholic teachings on sexuality, Mark has the right to believe what he wants.

…

If you check on the definition of the descriptor to which you object, you will see that it certainly applies. mark58 posted a very provocative post. He did not just convey a different opinion. In your brief exploration of Catholicism in RCIA, you clearly did not even scratch the surface of what it means to be a Catholic with the defense you are affording him. Otherwise, you would understand how deeply unsettling it is for a Catholic to read how Mark approaches self examination of conscience and the sacraments of reconciliation and the Eucharist. How does an actively gay Catholic go to Mass and receive communion daily? [That’s a rhetorical question.] And discloses in this forum that he confesses sins of homosexual acts as promiscuous acts, but not to the priest to whom he confesses. Errors and de facto rejection of the faith on so many serious levels. Regardless of his putting Catholic in his faith profile, he really belongs to no other but the church of mark58.

Further, you seem to attach different if not inappropriate meanings to words. For example, you admonished tqualey about legalism. You miss the substance of tqualey’s posts which touch on the spirit as well as the letter of Church teaching and bible verses that he cites.

 

[oldbrit2009]

Unfortunately, it is that attitude right there that drives people from the Church. We want people to stay and grow, not leave. It is very unfortunate that you chose to reject a fellow Catholic instead of being kind to him. Shame on you.

St Paul Groupie,
It is all very well saying we want people to stay and grow, but not at any price. If someone claims to be Catholic but follows a life style diametrically opposed to Catholic teaching, are you seriously suggesting that that person should still be “encouraged” to stay in the Church?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

If you check on the definition of the descriptor to which you object, you will see that it certainly applies. mark58 posted a very provocative post. He did not just convey a different opinion. In your brief exploration of Catholicism in RCIA, you clearly did not even scratch the surface of what it means to be a Catholic with the defense you are affording him. Otherwise, you would understand how deeply unsettling it is for a Catholic to read how Mark approaches self examination of conscience and the sacraments of reconciliation and the Eucharist. How does an actively gay Catholic go to Mass and receive communion daily? [That’s a rhetorical question.] And discloses in this forum that he confesses sins of homosexual acts as promiscuous acts, but not to the priest to whom he confesses. Errors and de facto rejection of the faith on so many serious levels. Regardless of his putting Catholic in his faith profile, he really belongs to no other but the church of mark58.

Further, you seem to attach different if not inappropriate meanings to words. For example, you admonished tqualey about legalism. You miss the substance of tqualey’s posts which touch on the spirit as well as the letter of Church teaching and bible verses that he cites.

Are heterosexuals who confess sodomy as fornication lying?