Homosexuality And Why The Church Is Wrong

[tqualey]

Hi, Mitex,

Actually, you have a problem with your recollection of what you were taught inyour RCIA days. Of course one is free to say, worship and believe whatever they like - and Mark is doing just that as he obviously spurns the teachings of the Catholic Church. His ‘freedom’ to do this - in fact St. Paul goes to great length to show how such ‘freedom’ is really deception and slavery. (Check out chapters 6 & 8 in Romans).

The issue is - as Mark has carefully and repeatedly told us - making an invalid confession, receiving Communion with unforgiven sin (related to the invalid confession), refusing to accept the Church’s teaching on homosexual behavior and claiming he is a practicing Catholic who can do whatever he wants to do. This is simply nonsense. But, it just doesn’t stop at nonsense - this is also giving public scandal… and there are some on CAF who really are floundering with this issue and since Mark has chosen to go public with his beliefs and behavior, I thought it appropriate to provide a correction.

We really need to make a distinction here. Mark can register as a ‘Republican’ and then vote for candidates fromthe ‘Democratic’ party. He is still listed as a ‘Republican’ on the party’s records. Really, he is free to act as he will - and it would be only between him and God if he had left it that way and not publicized his objectively sinful actions to all who read them.

Really, there is a difference between Catholic and Protestant beliefs, principles, philosophy and behaviors. If you can not see this difference, then you really need to look a little deeper.

God bless

Rather harsh about it. If I recall from my RCIA days the Church supports the right to freedom of speech, worship, and belief. If Mark chooses to spurn Catholic teaching so be it. That’s his choice and that’s what I was getting at.

I was never calling into question the Church’s teachings. He still has a fundamental free will and right to disagree. And even then he is still a human being with dignity, worth, and God’s love just as much as you, or I (And I’m an RCIA dropout protestant!). As for him and his sexual ethics well that’s between him and God.

We’re all sinners regardless of what we do. You’re a sinner. I’m a sinner. I think we get carried away on this issue of homosexuality because there’s way other sins out there than that. His issues are with him and God.

Your legalism has to go.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Dakota,

I think you answered your own question. Sodomy is sodomy. Mark made it perfectly clear that he was being deceitful to the priest in confession by withholding material information - thus rendering the confession invalid and gravely sinful in and of itself. One of the conditions for receiving absolution is a firm purpose of amendment - I concluded that this was obviously lacking from his boast that he was a active homosexual, how he went to confession and communion and how he has disregarded the teachings of the Catholic Church.

What did you conclude from Mark’s first post?

God bless

Are heterosexuals who confess sodomy as fornication lying?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, St. Paul Groupie,

Welcome to CAF

I am not sure exactly what criteria you are using to make the statement you made.

Here is one of mine - from Matthew 18:15-18

15 “If your brother sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. 16 i If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church.* If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. 18* k Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. **

And, here is the link to that chapter so that you can read it fully in context: usccb.org/bible/matthew/18

Note, Christ is giving all the Apostles the authority to bind and lose (and under the direction of Peter who alone was given the Keys [Matt 16]) the Church. The Catholic Church has condemned homosexual BEHAVIOR and that is the issue. You can go back to my earlier post to Mark specific to the Catechism of the Catholic Church on this topic.

So, tell me, what criteria are you using?

God bless

Unfortunately, it is that attitude right there that drives people from the Church. We want people to stay and grow, not leave. It is very unfortunate that you chose to reject a fellow Catholic instead of being kind to him. Shame on you.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Elizabeth502,



God bless

The Church does not support the “right” of Catholics to practice whatever form of Catholicism they choose to invent, and to disregard the necessary preparation for approaching the sacraments. One can “spurn Catholic teaching” by leaving the Church, temporariy or permanently, but that, according to what the poster said, does not seem to be what he is doing: rather he’s claiming his own definition of Catholicism.

**^ ** = A “religion” of private feelings, which has nothing in common with the religion of the Roman Church. Feelings as “the end of the story” is not the definition of a practicing Catholic.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Are heterosexuals who confess sodomy as fornication lying?

In self examination of conscience before confession, a heterosexual Catholic would address all sexual sins and sins against chastity committed given his/her marital or single status.

The poster’s confessing promiscuity in place of confessing committed homosexual acts, the slight difference of which he understands if you take the rest of his post, is just a part of his overall approach to the sacrament of reconciliation and the Eucharist. Can you justify or defend any of what he has disclosed in his post?
,

 

[aragonjohn1]

The only reason why I’m writing this is because I’m sick and tired of being called ‘evil’ just because of my sexual orientation.

I strongly believe I’m a loving person. I love my life, my family and friends. ALL human beings are creatures of love, no matter what they are attracted to.

At the end of the day that’s all it is, a sexual orientation. Just because I’m gay doesnt mean I’m ‘evil’. I’m tired of the Catholic Church in particular persuading people that it’s wrong. It is not, nor has it ever been.

In reference to another thread about gay couples being allowed to adopt, to quote one of this websites answers “Adoption is for the benefit of the child involved”. Are you saying a child is better to be in a foster home rather than be adopted by a same-sex couple? I am telling you that any child would be lucky to have two dads or two mothers.

Homosexuality is not contagious, its not caused by mothers ‘loving’ their child that bit too much. I was born this way.

I always wonder why the Church continues this mentality, when thousands of people (teenagers in particular) are committing suicide because they can’t live with being gay because YOU are telling them they are evil?

I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.
-Johnny

You are not an evil person you are a beautiful child of God just like everyone else Those with a gay tendency are called to chastity and/or suffering because of their “unnatural” attraction. And just like everyone else they have a vocation just like everyone else it may be hard but with Jesus the christ your burdon is light not heavy. It may be harder than most lay or married vocations but you can do it. Not by yourself but with God, and the help of others in particular Mary the mother of Jesus. You see back in roman times this behavior even though it was despised by many Jews, pagans, and Romans was not uncommon and sadly many boys and men died before old age before forty and fifty. And Mary as a good Jewish mother and Joseph his foster father loved him and did not abuse or mistreat him like many pagan and roman parents. If Jesus could do it back in them times that were somehow more parade than now.*

You can do it too.

Shalom
God bless you on your journey.

From st josephs catechism second edition
The Catholic Church takes a very high view of marriage and human sexuality. As the account of Genesis shows, marriage and sexuality were created by God and given to mankind as gifts for our benefit. Scripture records God’s statement that “it is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him” (Gen. 2:18). As a result, “a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh” (Gen. 2:24). Some may forego the good of marriage to serve a higher calling (cf. Matt. 19:10-12), but it is a good nevertheless.

Marriage is a conduit through which God’s grace flows to the couple and their children.1 The Catholic Church understands marriage between a baptized man and woman to be a sacrament, a visible sign of the grace that God gives them to help them live their lives here and now so as to be able to join him in eternity.2 For Catholics, marriage is social as well as religious, but its religious.aspects are very important. The Bible repeatedly compares the relationship between man and wife to that between God and Israel (cf. Hos. 9:1) or between Christ and his Church (cf. Eph. 5:21-32). For Catholics, marriage is a holy vocation

 

[tqualey]

Maybe it would be interesting to see what issues the US Government’s Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) looks at for men having sex with men (MSM) Here is a link: us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=3pt1idoco50k9

**"June 7, 2012 from 12:00 pm to 1:30 pm ET

This live webinar is for clinicians who provide care for men who have sex with men (MSM). The webinar will review critical diagnostic and management challenges for specific STDs and an overview of the epidemiology of STDs among MSM. Recommendations to help MSM maintain sexual health, components of the 2010 STD Treatment Guidelines, and resources relevant to clinicians working with MSM will also be discussed. The webinar will conclude with responses to questions submitted by the audience. The event will be archived for future viewing. Various forms of continuing education will be available for live and archived webinar viewers.

Do you have questions for the presenters about sexual health in MSM? Submit them before April 23rd via Twitter to @NNPTC and use hashtag #CDCMSMwebinar at www.twitter.com/NNPTC** or email your questions to nnptc@uw.edu. We’ll pass them along to the speakers to discuss during the event!"

From my past experience, the CDC is non-judgmental on health matters, candid about where people stand in relationship to disease, morbidity and mortality and then says what is usually available as treatment options.

Anyone can join the CDC’s website and get clinical updates on a multitude of topics - and, it is free! (Your tax dollars at work!). I would anticipate that this will have a significant clinical component but, if you don’t have a clinical background, I think you can take notes and investigate those items that were not clear. While physical health really is secondary to spiritual health - it is not prudent to be ignorant of either.

God bless

 

[Quarles47]

Someone should start a threat Homosexuality And Why Johnny760 Is Wrong

 

[Johnny760]

Firstly, I would like to apologize for my lack of posting lately as I’m currently studying for exams. I have, however, been observing this forum and feel we’ve drifted away from the original topic. To reiterate the title, I believe the Churches viewpoint is wrong. Maybe it is bias of me, being a gay man and all, but I feel the Church should stop making such a big deal over the matter. Love is love.

I feel it is important to look back in history when dealing with matters like this. Just one example; if one thinks about how many people were burned for reading the Bible in English in London. Not just reading the bible, but for being in the POSSESSION of a vernacular bible, one may be subject to this horrific punishment. But, there is an Bible in English in almost every house, hotel room, anywhere really. It is obvious to see how the Church was wrong on that matter, and from my point of view right now, it is easy to see how the Church is wrong on the subject of Homosexuality.

Statistics from 1994 (I know they’re very dated, but they were all I could locate at this present time) showed that 40.3% of LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & transgender) men & women had attempted suicide. I personally cannot live in a world where this goes relatively unnoticed. I feel this stigmatisation, the victimisation, that leads to the playground bullying is enforced by the Catholic Church. And my reason, The Pope Ratzinger said that homosexuality was “an intrinsic moral evil”.

I can’t express how great it would feel if I could come back to this thread in a few weeks, months or even years time and declare that the Church has changed its mindset on homosexuality and no longer viewed it as an abomination.

Refer to me, or anyone else who posts here that doesn’t agree with the Churches view as a ‘troll’ like we were in previous posts, but I feel this problem cannot be ignored for any longer, and it, clearly, is one I feel strongly about.

A juxtaposing theme throughout the numerous replies has been “Same sex attraction is ok, but it is a sin to ever act upon those impulses”. Gay sex and heterosexual sex is the same. “No it is not, two men cannot reproduce, therefore it is wrong”, well what about men and women who are born infertile? The Church seems to be obsessed with sex, not just gay sex. The Church say we, society, are obsessed with it, with our jokes and whatnot, but I have to disagree with that. Sex is a primary impulse, to hetero and homosexuals. To put it simply, it’s a bit like food in that respect only even more exciting. The only people who are obsessed with food are anorexics and the morbidly obese, and that in erotic terms is the Catholic Church in a nutshell.

Finally, this post is not a 'church bashing; or anything along those lines. I am merely pointing out an area where I feel the Church NEEDS to act upon. I would like to say that I have no quarrel and no argument and I wish to express no contempt for individual devout and pious members of that church. It would be impertinent and wrong of me to express any antagonism towards any individual who wishes to find salvation in whatever form they wish to express it. I would like to express it through the Catholic Church and proudly be openly gay, but right now, that clearly isn’t the case.

Thank you.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Firstly, I would like to apologize for my lack of posting lately as I’m currently studying for exams. I have, however, been observing this forum and feel we’ve drifted away from the original topic. To reiterate the title, I believe the Churches viewpoint is wrong. Maybe it is bias of me, being a gay man and all, but I feel the Church should stop making such a big deal over the matter. Love is love.

I feel it is important to look back in history when dealing with matters like this. Just one example; if one thinks about how many people were burned for reading the Bible in English in London. Not just reading the bible, but for being in the POSSESSION of a vernacular bible, one may be subject to this horrific punishment. But, there is an Bible in English in almost every house, hotel room, anywhere really. It is obvious to see how the Church was wrong on that matter, and from my point of view right now, it is easy to see how the Church is wrong on the subject of Homosexuality.

Statistics from 1994 (I know they’re very dated, but they were all I could locate at this present time) showed that 40.3% of LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & transgender) men & women had attempted suicide. I personally cannot live in a world where this goes relatively unnoticed. I feel this stigmatisation, the victimisation, that leads to the playground bullying is enforced by the Catholic Church. And my reason, The Pope Ratzinger said that homosexuality was “an intrinsic moral evil”.

I can’t express how great it would feel if I could come back to this thread in a few weeks, months or even years time and declare that the Church has changed its mindset on homosexuality and no longer viewed it as an abomination.

Refer to me, or anyone else who posts here that doesn’t agree with the Churches view as a ‘troll’ like we were in previous posts, but I feel this problem cannot be ignored for any longer, and it, clearly, is one I feel strongly about.

A juxtaposing theme throughout the numerous replies has been “Same sex attraction is ok, but it is a sin to ever act upon those impulses”. Gay sex and heterosexual sex is the same. “No it is not, two men cannot reproduce, therefore it is wrong”, well what about men and women who are born infertile? The Church seems to be obsessed with sex, not just gay sex. The Church say we, society, are obsessed with it, with our jokes and whatnot, but I have to disagree with that. Sex is a primary impulse, to hetero and homosexuals. To put it simply, it’s a bit like food in that respect only even more exciting. The only people who are obsessed with food are anorexics and the morbidly obese, and that in erotic terms is the Catholic Church in a nutshell.

Finally, this post is not a 'church bashing; or anything along those lines. I am merely pointing out an area where I feel the Church NEEDS to act upon. I would like to say that I have no quarrel and no argument and I wish to express no contempt for individual devout and pious members of that church. It would be impertinent and wrong of me to express any antagonism towards any individual who wishes to find salvation in whatever form they wish to express it. I would like to express it through the Catholic Church and proudly be openly gay, but right now, that clearly isn’t the case.

Thank you.

Source(s) for people being burned for Vernacular Bibles in London?

The Church forbids bullying of anyone, no exception, bullying of LGBT persons included. Pope Benedict XVI didn’t say that, homosexual acts are an intrinsic moral evil (because all inherently sterile acts are intrinsically evil). Homosexuality is not an abomination, homosexual acts are morally disordered just like fornication, masturbation, divorce etc.

Indeed, they are the same in that in both cases all intrinsically sterile acts is sinful.

 

[ssa_fellow]

To reiterate the title, I believe the Churches viewpoint is wrong. Maybe it is bias of me, being a gay man and all, but I feel the Church should stop making such a big deal over the matter. Love is love.

Statistics from 1994 (I know they’re very dated, but they were all I could locate at this present time) showed that 40.3% of LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & transgender) men & women had attempted suicide. I personally cannot live in a world where this goes relatively unnoticed. I feel this stigmatisation, the victimisation, that leads to the playground bullying is enforced by the Catholic Church. And my reason, The Pope Ratzinger said that homosexuality was “an intrinsic moral evil”.

I can’t express how great it would feel if I could come back to this thread in a few weeks, months or even years time and declare that the Church has changed its mindset on homosexuality and no longer viewed it as an abomination.

Refer to me, or anyone else who posts here that doesn’t agree with the Churches view as a ‘troll’ like we were in previous posts, but I feel this problem cannot be ignored for any longer, and it, clearly, is one I feel strongly about.

A juxtaposing theme throughout the numerous replies has been “Same sex attraction is ok, but it is a sin to ever act upon those impulses”. Gay sex and heterosexual sex is the same. “No it is not, two men cannot reproduce, therefore it is wrong”, well what about men and women who are born infertile? The Church seems to be obsessed with sex, not just gay sex. The Church say we, society, are obsessed with it, with our jokes and whatnot, but I have to disagree with that. Sex is a primary impulse, to hetero and homosexuals. To put it simply, it’s a bit like food in that respect only even more exciting. The only people who are obsessed with food are anorexics and the morbidly obese, and that in erotic terms is the Catholic Church in a nutshell.

Finally, this post is not a 'church bashing; or anything along those lines. I am merely pointing out an area where I feel the Church NEEDS to act upon. I would like to say that I have no quarrel and no argument and I wish to express no contempt for individual devout and pious members of that church. It would be impertinent and wrong of me to express any antagonism towards any individual who wishes to find salvation in whatever form they wish to express it. I would like to express it through the Catholic Church and proudly be openly gay, but right now, that clearly isn’t the case.

Thank you.

Well, in my view, the best way to prevent suicide is spreading the Gospel. If more of those LGBT who attempted suicide fully knew God then they wouldn’t have attempted it. If you don’t believe in God you have no reason to believe in the dignity of human life… including your own. And, what are your reasons to live if you don’t know God?

He is referred to as Pope Benedict XVI. That is his papal name. Monks do the same thing, they take new names for monastic life. The name Joseph Ratzinger refers to his life before he became Pope. For your information.

The Church doesn’t have anything against infertile couples, because through God all things are possible. Sarah was 90 years old when she gave birth to Isaac. The Church therefore doesn’t believe infertility is a reason not to be married, because the sexual act is still open to reproduction.

If food is an impulse, the Church also calls people not to be gluttons. Jesus Christ told us to restrain our impulses: “If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.” - Luke 9:23 Denying yourself certainly rules out sexual impulses… and I could find a lot more Scripture to back that up.

What I want to focus on is this: From all of the posts that I’ve read of yours you haven’t even mentioned Jesus Christ. I just find it intrinsically arrogant that any mere mortal would consider themselves wiser than the Church which Jesus Christ founded. You want the Church to listen to you, society, and the changing times. Well, Jesus Christ is the center of the Church. And he does not change.

Everyone outside of marriage has been called to celibacy since the days of the Jews. So, this teaching hasn’t changed in 3,300 years. Why should it change today? God has not changed.

Anyways, I have same sex attractions. I was born this way. And I’m committed to living a virtuous life, in that virginity is a virtue. Also, I have faith that the Church will not fall to evil. So, it’s teachings on matters of faith and morals will always be correct. And they will never contradict each other. What your advocating simply can’t be done because the Church would effectively be contradicting itself over the last 2,000 years.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Johnny760,

If you want to maintain your postition about the Catholic Church being wrong on its position against homosexual behavior, you will need to state some reasons for this rather than just your emoitons. Providing solid refernces responding to God’s Word - that back up your position would also be considered helpful for a faith based dialogue.

Maybe it is bias of me, being a gay man and all, but I feel the Church should stop making such a big deal over the matter. Love is love.

There have been previous references from Scripture - both OT and NT that specifically condemn homosexual behavior. Claiming "Love is love’ as though anything that masquerades or misidentifies itself as ‘love’ passes the test is misguided. Even the Greeks were able to distinguish between three different types of ‘love’ - here is a link that will give you some appropriate distinctions: godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message310315/pg1 The Catholic Church makes a ‘big deal’ out of following Christ and His commands. Avoiding serious sin is another ‘big deal’ because souls that died in that state go to Hell. You can decide just what should else be a ‘big deal’ once these two items are addressed.

I feel it is important to look back in history when dealing with matters like this. Just one example; if one thinks about how many people were burned for reading the Bible in English in London.

Johnny760, this has nothing to do with the Thread - and since you expressed a real interest in people not ‘…drifting away from the original topic…’ may I suggest you start a new Thread on this topic of people being burned for having a vernacular bible.
//////////////

It is obvious to see how the Church was wrong on that matter, and from my point of view right now, it is easy to see how the Church is wrong on the subject of Homosexuality.

This is really a ***non sequitur ***where the conclusion does not follow from its premises. Seriously, if it were really ‘…easy to see how the Chruch is wrong…’ then you would be able to produce a logical argument to that effect. Homosexual behavior is condemned by the Church because it is gravely disordered and contrary to nature. For the same reason that people do not use lye to brush their teeth, people of the same sex do not have sex with one another. It is unnatural and dangerous. Individuals suffer when they violate nature and societies essentially stop functioning when healthy families stop functioning.

And my reason, The Pope Ratzinger said that homosexuality was “an intrinsic moral evil”.

It is very important to distinguish between loving the sinner as Christ demonstrated and hating the sin - as He also demonstrated. Your view of the Pope fails to make this critical distinction. There is no encouragement, endorsement or promotion of bullying anyone. But calling sin, sin is a reality check.

I can’t express how great it would feel if I could come back to this thread in a few weeks, months or even years time and declare that the Church has changed its mindset on homosexuality and no longer viewed it as an abomination.

Besides your desire for such a change - what do you think the Catholic Church could honestly base such a dramatic decision on?

…a ‘troll’ like we were in previous posts, but I feel this problem cannot be ignored for any longer, and it, clearly, is one I feel strongly about.

Not agreeing with your description of the problem is not the same thing as ignoring the problem. Again, God’s inspired Word specifically condemns homosexual behavior.

A juxtaposing theme throughout the numerous replies has been “Same sex attraction is ok, but it is a sin to ever act upon those impulses”. Gay sex and heterosexual sex is the same. “No it is not, two men cannot reproduce, therefore it is wrong”, well what about men and women who are born infertile? The Church seems to be obsessed with sex, not just gay sex. The Church say we, society, are obsessed with it, with our jokes and whatnot, but I have to disagree with that. Sex is a primary impulse, to hetero and homosexuals. To put it simply, it’s a bit like food in that respect only even more exciting. The only people who are obsessed with food are anorexics and the morbidly obese, and that in erotic terms is the Catholic Church in a nutshell.

This is just a rant, Johnny760. May I suggest to approach this topic with more light than heat.

I would like to express it through the Catholic Church and proudly be openly gay, but right now, that clearly isn’t the case.

If you look at any sin that exists - there are certain common factors. One of these is that the individual considering the temptation sees it as a good - not the sin (evil) that it really is. To want to be ‘…openly gay…’ (actively engaged in homosexual behavior - not just SSA) is simply want to persist in sin. People who want to steal - and openly proclaim their dishonesty are also not showing remorse for the evil they have done - and are now bragging about.

God bless

 

[Gertabelle]

To reiterate the title, I believe the Churches viewpoint is wrong. Maybe it is bias of me, being a gay man and all, but I feel the Church should stop making such a big deal over the matter.

Statistics from 1994 (I know they’re very dated, but they were all I could locate at this present time) showed that 40.3% of LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & transgender) men & women had attempted suicide. I personally cannot live in a world where this goes relatively unnoticed. I feel this stigmatisation, the victimisation, that leads to the playground bullying is enforced by the Catholic Church. And my reason, The Pope Ratzinger said that homosexuality was “an intrinsic moral evil”.

Finally, this post is not a 'church bashing; or anything along those lines. I am merely pointing out an area where I feel the Church NEEDS to act upon.

Thank you.

Dude, where do I even start???

OK, when I was in the GLBTT life, I was a member of several organizations the had me living in a world surrounded by men and women who identified as every label under the sun: gay, lesbian, bi, transgender, transexual, questioning, pre-transition, in-transition… We used to joke that although I didn’t personally know every lesbian in the metro area, my friends and I combined probably did.

So, 40% attempted suicide? Really? Wanna share that scientific study, or was that just some random number quoted in some article or interview somewhere? I’m telling you that out of the 100 some lesbians and gay men I knew and interacted with on a regular basis, there is no way 40 of us (40%) had attempted suicide. Just how did this study define “attempt” and what relationship did participants in the study say the attempt have to their identifying as GLBTT? You’ll need to actually post a source for that one.

Next. The Church focuses on sexual matters these days because modern society is trying to destroy all moral compasses in this area – not only in popular media, but in our private lives by trying to marginalize anyone who refuses to publicly accept society’s sexual “theology.” In other words, the Church is responding to the needs of current society, just as She does in each generation.

If 100 years from now, society started to teach and demand adherance to the belief that lying about everything was the only way to be enlightened, the Church would be (in your own words) obsessed with the sin of lying.

And finally, for now, you say you’re not “church bashing” as you challenge the Church’s beliefs, structure, intentions, integrity, and intelligence. Well, if that ain’t church bashing, I don’t know what is, darlin’

Look, I lived as a lesbian for some 10 years, and I tried all the mental gymnastics to make the Church wrong and me right. In the end, the god I was worshipping was my own intellect – because my thoughts were, of course, so much more well-reasoned and insightful than anything that came before me What a pile of rot!

Give it up. The Church isn’t going to change on this matter. As clever as you are, there’s just no way for you to win this one on your standards.

Oh, and if you don’t want to be seen as a troll, you’ll have to actualy reply to specific comments people here post – not just show up every couple weeks, throw insults at the Church, and then sit back and watch what happens – that would be the definition of a troll.
I’ll keep you in my prayers, as I do all those with SSA.

Gertie

 

[jc4751]

Love is love.

Some people “love” five year olds. Nothing wrong with that, right? (not implying that homosexuals are pedophiles, just putting holes in a vacuous statement)

Just one example; if one thinks about how many people were burned for reading the Bible in English in London…

Anyone with a clue about medieval history would understand that Bible ownership in medieval England would be a rarity and luxury afforded to only the richest people in society – probably the King and anyone else who could afford to have a private chapel and a castle to go with it. Or, if you want, the same people with enough power to tell the local bishop to stuff it. Again, another garbage statement.

Statistics from 1994 (I know they’re very dated, but they were all I could locate at this present time) showed that 40.3% of LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & transgender) men & women had attempted suicide. I personally cannot live in a world where this goes relatively unnoticed. I feel this stigmatisation, the victimisation, that leads to the playground bullying is enforced by the Catholic Church. And my reason, The Pope Ratzinger said that homosexuality was “an intrinsic moral evil”.

Debunked: livescience.com/8734-gay-teen-suicide-epidemic.html

Interestingly, even people with bipolar disorder only have a suicide rate of 20%.

I can’t express how great it would feel if I could come back to this thread in a few weeks, months or even years time and declare that the Church has changed its mindset on homosexuality and no longer viewed it as an abomination.

People who make money from abortion would probably make the same statement. Maybe people who are into adultery would, too – known a few of those and they’re full of excuses and justifications…

Refer to me, or anyone else who posts here that doesn’t agree with the Churches view as a ‘troll’ like we were in previous posts, but I feel this problem cannot be ignored for any longer, and it, clearly, is one I feel strongly about.

I don’t think you’re a troll. Seems to be a label better suited to verbal vandals with no real agenda. You obviously disagree with the Church, whatever the validity of your arguments. The issue’s not exactly new, although societal approval of homosexuality (either secular or religious) is a fleeting thing, if history is any indicator, regardless of religion.

A juxtaposing theme throughout the numerous replies has been “Same sex attraction is ok, but it is a sin to ever act upon those impulses”. Gay sex and heterosexual sex is the same. “No it is not, two men cannot reproduce, therefore it is wrong”, well what about men and women who are born infertile? The Church seems to be obsessed with sex, not just gay sex. The Church say we, society, are obsessed with it, with our jokes and whatnot, but I have to disagree with that. Sex is a primary impulse, to hetero and homosexuals. To put it simply, it’s a bit like food in that respect only even more exciting. The only people who are obsessed with food are anorexics and the morbidly obese, and that in erotic terms is the Catholic Church in a nutshell.

I’m infertile, quite a frustrating and touchy issue with me. The issue here is that sexual relations is permitted within a legitimate marriage, i.e. one that is consummated with the expectation of producing children. When my wife and I were married, we had no idea that we could not have children, and were married with the intent of having a family.

Finally, this post is not a 'church bashing; or anything along those lines. I am merely pointing out an area where I feel the Church NEEDS to act upon. I would like to say that I have no quarrel and no argument and I wish to express no contempt for individual devout and pious members of that church. It would be impertinent and wrong of me to express any antagonism towards any individual who wishes to find salvation in whatever form they wish to express it. I would like to express it through the Catholic Church and proudly be openly gay, but right now, that clearly isn’t the case.

Thank you.

You can be openly gay and be a member of the Church in good standing. You just can’t fornicate. Same as a heterosexual who doesn’t want to get married. Or a heterosexual who wants to be remarried after obtaining a secular divorce. The Church teaches respect for marriage, the creation of a strong family, and doing so within the boundaries of what is considered Biblically correct. Being a sexually active homosexual is a little like wanting to be a practicing Nazi and be a member of the American Jewish Congress. It doesn’t fit, no matter how much you try.

I’m really curious about something here, though, something I’d ask most people who are practicing activity contrary to Church teaching, tho – you want to be part of the Church presumably because it is the correct path to personal salvation. Your time on earth from birth to death is 70 or 80 years, on average. You want to be in the Church because you want an eternity with God. Is it really that much of a sacrifice to give up sex for your life in earth in return for eternal salvation? If you don’t really believe in eternal salvation (if you want to practice homosexuality), why would you ever want to be part of the Church in the first place? Just wondering.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

I would like to know if the supposed 40% suicide rate has more to do with the depression inherent within those with homosexual attractions and the guilt associated by acting on it rather than any supposed “ostracization” by people in general.

I know there have been studies done on people who have homosexual tendencies & its correlation with depression and bi-polar disorders, but I can’t recall them now. Maybe someone else here can?

 

[Gertabelle]

I would like to know if the supposed 40% suicide rate has more to do with the depression inherent within those with homosexual attractions and the guilt associated by acting on it rather than any supposed “ostracization” by people in general.

I know there have been studies done on people who have homosexual tendencies & its correlation with depression and bi-polar disorders, but I can’t recall them now. Maybe someone else here can?

Did you know that 92.8% of statistics are made up on the spot?

Think about it…

Keep thinking…

Are ya there yet?

The 40% number has been dubunked. In other words, the statistic is made up – albeit through some pretty creative (and shoddy) math.

There’s not much more to consider, except how to reach out to all those who actually are considering suicide

Gertie

 

[jc4751]

Did you know that 92.8% of statistics are made up on the spot?

Think about it…

Keep thinking…

Are ya there yet?

My favorite is when they run a news story noting a 75% increase in something, but not telling you what the previous figure was.

 

[ssa_fellow]

After listening to this video from Michael Voris, what homosexual wouldn’t want to follow the Church’s teachings in their life?

youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=K0sILSapUUc&NR=1

 

[jeffspot]

I remember reading both of these articles some time back and have found that they argue each side with more grace than what I can myself muster. If you are seeking to understand each position’s core arguments, this should prove insightful.

gaychristian.net/greatdebate.php

 

[Mangy_Donkey]

Statistics from 1994 (I know they’re very dated, but they were all I could locate at this present time) showed that 40.3% of LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & transgender) men & women had attempted suicide. I personally cannot live in a world where this goes relatively unnoticed. I feel this stigmatisation, the victimisation, that leads to the playground bullying is enforced by the Catholic Church. And my reason, The Pope Ratzinger said that homosexuality was “an intrinsic moral evil”.

Most if not all of the homosexuals I know have emotional problems, either very high or very very low, depending on the day.

If the victimization stigmatization were true I don’t think there would be and Jews or Blacks left, No gays have ever been persecuted to the extent that either of these groups have.