Homosexuality in family

[EasterJoy]

I would second this. It’s your duty as a Catholic to make clear that you believe this to be immoral. You don’t have to fall out with family. Just explain that you cannot, in good conscience, celebrate an act that you consider to be immoral. You don’t help the souls of those involved by staying quiet.

It is not just a matter of “making it clear.” It is not about “making a statement.” It is about refraining from participating in a gravely immoral act, even when you are convinced that those engaging in the act are honestly convinced they are following moral law.

That’s the thing: You are not staying away because you are judging their culpability for what they are doing or the state of their souls. You are staying away because your conscience, informed as it is by the teachings of the Catholic Church to which you are bound by your baptism, will not allow you to participate in the event,

It is OK to make it clear to those going that you are only asking that they respect that your moral understanding has to be allowed to rule over your actions, and that when the tables are turned you promise you will not judge them for doing what their conscience demands. If that includes shunning you, then so be it. Be as good as your word on that point.

 

[newf]

People are making comments here about us all being sinners which is true!

However there is a difference between acknowledging that we are all sinners, and attending an event that is outwardly celebrating something taught by the Catholic church to be mortally sinful.

I am a sinner 100% no doubt about that! If I invite you to my home for dinner you can accept my invitation! Even though for all you know I have committed adultery, or had an abortion or done many other things but you can accept my invitation and I would hope that you would. Unfortunately if I invite you to my party celebrating that I am committing adultery then you cannot accept THAT invitation. Or if I had a party celebrating that I had an abortion you could not attend that party either. Do you see the difference? You cannot accept an invitation that celebrates a mortal sin. You can celebrate with others and should love others, however you cannot celebrate their sins.

Therefore we should love our brothers and sisters with same-sex attraction; we should go to coffee with them and have fun! We should celebrate their birthdays and share in friendship with them and tell them we love them! They are children of God and are created in His image and likeness. However, like all people we cannot celebrate any kind of sin so this “wedding” should not be attended or celebrated under any circumstance.

People can, and will disagree with me though, probably quite strongly. Thank you though for an interesting topic. God bless your day.

This post describes how I’ve always felt about gay marriage.

BUT

What about bringing the light of Christ into this dark place? Obviously, gay marriage is wrong. But the hope would be that the brides or grooms would repent. I had a priest tell me that this is a time to show love and that I should attend my cousin’s lesbian wedding. What do you think of that?

 

[1neophyte]

You cannot accept an invitation that celebrates a mortal sin. You can celebrate with others and should love others, however you cannot celebrate their sins.

Should one also reject an invitation to a baby shower for a child conceived out of wedlock?

 

[pensmama87]

Should one also reject an invitation to a baby shower for a child conceived out of wedlock?

The baby is not a sin. You are celebrating the baby.

To clarify: A “wedding” between two people of the same sex is sinful. It is trying to state a non-truth as truth at the actual event. With a baby shower, there may have been a sin that led to that child, but the child itself is not a sin. The sin is past. The celebration is the life, and the person God allowed to be created despite less than ideal circumstances. A person attending a baby shower is there for the child, not putting a stamp of approval on whatever may go on outside of that event.

Catholics should not ever put a stigma on children conceived out of wedlock. The children are innocent and are as much if not more in need of Christian love.

 

[1neophyte]

The baby is not a sin. You are celebrating the baby.

A baby that wouldn’t exist if not for a mortal sin.

 

[pensmama87]

A baby that wouldn’t exist if not for a mortal sin.

See my addition.

 

[1neophyte]

The baby is not a sin. You are celebrating the baby.

To clarify: A “wedding” between two people of the same sex is sinful. It is trying to state a non-truth as truth at the actual event. With a baby shower, there may have been a sin that led to that child, but the child itself is not a sin. The sin is past. The celebration is the life, and the person God allowed to be created despite less than ideal circumstances. A person attending a baby shower is there for the child, not putting a stamp of approval on whatever may go on outside of that event.

Catholics should not ever put a stigma on children conceived out of wedlock. The children are innocent and are as much if not more in need of Christian love.

You could argue that it is the guilty who are more in need of Christian love.

 

[pensmama87]

You could argue that it is the guilty who are more in need of Christian love.

That would also be true.

But “love” does not mean “show up at my event celebrating my sinfulness.” In fact, it could be very unloving to assist in perpetuating a delusion.

 

[1neophyte]

That would also be true.

But “love” does not mean “show up at my event celebrating my sinfulness.” In fact, it could be very unloving to assist in perpetuating a delusion.

So what about a baby shower for a woman’s fourth child conceived out of wedlock? I’m not suggesting a stigma towards the child, but a baby shower also has SOMETHING to do with the mother. If you’re going to avoid being around those celebrating mortal sin, shouldn’t it be an all-inclusive policy?

 

[pensmama87]

So what about a baby shower for a woman’s fourth child conceived out of wedlock? I’m not suggesting a stigma towards the child, but a baby shower also has SOMETHING to do with the mother. If you’re going to avoid** being around those celebrating mortal sin**, shouldn’t it be an all-inclusive policy?

A person might prudently decide to not attend a baby shower for a fourth baby (I probably wouldn’t unless there were extenuating circumstances, because a baby shower for a fourth baby sounds like a gift grab). But they aren’t being inconsistent if they do.

A baby shower is not a celebration of immorality. A same-sex “wedding” is, by definition.

 

[SilverLight]

You can’t know that ahead of time.

It’s not morally wrong to refuse to attend a wedding. You can for whatever reason you want, and don’t even have to disclose the reason to the inviting party.

Sometimes you can just tell.

I never said it was not morally wrong to not attend. You don’t have to go if you don’t want that’s fine. However some people may not be sending you a card during the holidays but that’s not honestly a bad thing either.

 

[yellowbird]

If it were a distant relative, I would politely decline. If it were one of my children - or someone I loved very much, I would go. I admit the ceremony itself would likely make me uncomfortable, but I would go - and try my best to love them unconditionally, as Jesus does.

I don’t care to argue with anyone - this is simply my honest opinion.

 

[EasterJoy]

A baby that wouldn’t exist if not for a mortal sin.

The child is not the problem. If anything, no effort ought to be spared to make certain that a child brought into this world under irregular circumstances is never given the impression that he or she is “less than” any other child. The assumption ought to be that the child will have the same needs as any other child who, for instance, is being raised by a single parent or whose parents have split up for some reason.

Likewise, people who are attracted to persons of their own sex are not a “problem.” The attraction is a problem, but we all suffer from concupiscence and many of us objectively suffer from compulsions to do unhealthy or immoral things. It is also necessary when dealing with those who are attracted to immoral acts to make certain that they know their inclinations do not make them “less than” other people. Conversely, their inherent human dignity does not make everything they are inclined to do into a moral act. That is by no means a hair-splitting distinction!

 

[AdamP88]

If it were a distant relative, I would politely decline. ** If it were one of my children - or someone I loved very much, I would go. I admit the ceremony itself would likely make me uncomfortable, but I would go - and try my best to love them unconditionally, as Jesus does. **

I don’t care to argue with anyone - this is simply my honest opinion.

But your attendance would be saying to them that you celebrate their decision to live a sinful lifestyle.

The most loving thing if you care about their eternal souls would surely be to decline?

I always find it funny when people say that Catholics hate people with homosexual tendencies. I’d say Catholics love them more than anyone because they are willing to tell the truth to try to save their souls.

 

[1neophyte]

But your attendance would be saying to them that you celebrate their decision to live a sinful lifestyle.

The most loving thing if you care about their eternal souls would surely be to decline?

I always find it funny when people say that Catholics hate people with homosexual tendencies. I’d say Catholics love them more than anyone because they are willing to tell the truth to try to save their souls.

I find it funny when Catholics think the power to save souls can be found in their words.

 

[AdamP88]

I find it funny when Catholics think the power to save souls can be found in their words.

I never said that it could. But telling someone or implying to someone that their actions are morally correct if they aren’t doesn’t help people’s souls. If the things we do and say have no bearing on salvation, then why is scandal a sin?

 

[EasterJoy]

If it were a distant relative, I would politely decline. If it were one of my children - or someone I loved very much, I would go. I admit the ceremony itself would likely make me uncomfortable, but I would go - and try my best to love them unconditionally, as Jesus does.

I don’t care to argue with anyone - this is simply my honest opinion.

I’m not here to argue, but I would point out that your description of unconditional love modeled after Our Lord is not a full one.

Our Lord did not unconditionally agree with other people’s choices. He had this habit of calling people out in public when they were recalcitrant in their sinfulness. He didn’t tell the woman caught in adultery, “hey, I accept you.” He said, “Neither do I condemn you…go, and sin no more.” Is that what you want to do? Otherwise, do not pretend that tacit approval of moral stubbornness is required by those who imitate Christ. It is not true.

 

[EasterJoy]

I find it funny when Catholics think the power to save souls can be found in their words.

Not just the power to save their souls, but the power to save our own:

My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back, he should know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

*I myself am convinced about you, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, and able to admonish one another. *Rom. 15:14

Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. Luke 17:3

 

[tinamn]

Not sure I’m qualified to answer this, but here are my thoughts:

I have friends who do not share my faith; I have friends that are not religious at all.

I have attended weddings that were not faith based or religious - basically a civil ceremony. Does that make their wedding a sin? Well, maybe to me it would be a sin, but they don’t hold the same beliefs as I do - so to them, of course their wedding isn’t a sin - it’s a celebration of them committing themselves to their relationship (hopefully for a lifetime).

So in regards to a wedding for a same-sex couple, I basically feel the same way - it’s a civil ceremony to celebrate their commitment to one another. Do I feel homosexuality is a sin? I do. But they do not, and they aren’t “celebrating their sin.” Would I bring my children? Probably not, though I imagine it depends on their ages. We can’t shelter our children from everything, and there will be an appropriate time to talk with them about what they’re going to see when they go out in the world (undoubtedly they will encounter same-sex couples, “married” or not).

Now - if I had friends in a same-sex relationship who claimed to be Christian (assuming probably evangelical or one of the Protestant denominations that feels homosexuality is NOT a sin) and they invited me to a church wedding, I would not feel I could attend in good conscience. Yes, in the same way as above, they don’t feel it’s a sin - so really in a way it’s not very different. The difference to me though, is the difference between celebrating a marriage vs celebrating a civil union.

To me, marriage is in the church, with God present, and the legal part of that is the civil union (the marriage license). If you are wed outside of the faith, it’s a civil union (the marriage license) without the true “marriage”. Is that counting on technicalities or definitions? Yeah probably, but really it is the truth. Marriage in the Church is NOT the same as a civil union/ceremony somewhere else, and I don’t expect people who don’t share my beliefs to consider their “marriage” or “union,” or whatever you want to call it, to be invalid or not worth celebrating because of what I believe.

Part of the above reasoning is why I also did not support banning “gay marriage” (or gay civil unions, if you will - because that’s what it is). They don’t share my faith - why should I push a law (based on my faith) on people who don’t share my faith? That is what happens in many countries in this world, and we tend to look down on those countries for being religiously oppressive. I feel I am strong enough in my faith and beliefs that knowing something is legal isn’t going to turn me to “the other side” (so to speak).

 

[SilverLight]

Not sure I’m qualified to answer this, but here are my thoughts:

I have friends who do not share my faith; I have friends that are not religious at all.

I have attended weddings that were not faith based or religious - basically a civil ceremony. Does that make their wedding a sin? Well, maybe to me it would be a sin, but they don’t hold the same beliefs as I do - so to them, of course their wedding isn’t a sin - it’s a celebration of them committing themselves to their relationship (hopefully for a lifetime).

So in regards to a wedding for a same-sex couple, I basically feel the same way - it’s a civil ceremony to celebrate their commitment to one another. Do I feel homosexuality is a sin? I do. But they do not, and they aren’t “celebrating their sin.” Would I bring my children? Probably not, though I imagine it depends on their ages. We can’t shelter our children from everything, and there will be an appropriate time to talk with them about what they’re going to see when they go out in the world (undoubtedly they will encounter same-sex couples, “married” or not).

Now - if I had friends in a same-sex relationship who claimed to be Christian (assuming probably evangelical or one of the Protestant denominations that feels homosexuality is NOT a sin) and they invited me to a church wedding, I would not feel I could attend in good conscience. Yes, in the same way as above, they don’t feel it’s a sin - so really in a way it’s not very different. The difference to me though, is the difference between celebrating a marriage vs celebrating a civil union.

To me, marriage is in the church, with God present, and the legal part of that is the civil union (the marriage license). If you are wed outside of the faith, it’s a civil union (the marriage license) without the true “marriage”. Is that counting on technicalities or definitions? Yeah probably, but really it is the truth. Marriage in the Church is NOT the same as a civil union/ceremony somewhere else, and I don’t expect people who don’t share my beliefs to consider their “marriage” or “union,” or whatever you want to call it, to be invalid or not worth celebrating because of what I believe.

Part of the above reasoning is why I also did not support banning “gay marriage” (or gay civil unions, if you will - because that’s what it is). They don’t share my faith - why should I push a law (based on my faith) on people who don’t share my faith? That is what happens in many countries in this world, and we tend to look down on those countries for being religiously oppressive. I feel I am strong enough in my faith and beliefs that knowing something is legal isn’t going to turn me to “the other side” (so to speak).

Well said!

It is theirs and to them they are not sinning. The point is we all have different views and it pays later on to realize that sometimes.

I have friends who live a life style I do not agree with at all (they are not homosexual it’s something else) but to them it’s alright. I’m not their parent and they are older then me so I have no real place to say anything to be honest.