Homosexuality in geneology?

[jcrichton]

It can’t. It can however prove that something is natural or unnatural, genetic or choice etc.

I was thrown into ‘masculine improvement’ programs as early as 4-5, I don’t even really remember those obviously, but apparently my parents caught me playing kissing games with other boys at that age.

I’m pretty sure I didn’t choose to do those things, or had someone make me do it, or my upbringing cause it. My parents were very solid traditional family, my dad worked 9-5, mom took care of the house and the kids. I was raised Catholic, some of my earliest memories are of being in Church on sunday. I was raised exactly the same as my brothers, and both of them are married with kids now.

…so you were born a homosexual?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Dtmccameron]

I wonder if Jeffrey Dahmer had a gene that made him a mass murderer. Or if Hitler had a gene that made him hate Jews.

QUOTE]

When science destroys the soul, all that’s left to govern behavior is genetics.

Pretty soon we’ll be picking and choosing (wait a minute! We already are!) and manipulating our ‘spawn’ to our liking. For the greater good of the future breeders, of course. That’s all we end up being, when souls are taken out of the picture. Hairless, ugly apes. With guns.

I must be spelling it wrong in my head, but isn’t geneology that…thing with family trees and all?

 

[pathia]

…so you were born a homosexual?

Maran atha!

Angel

I am attracted mostly to men, yes. My parents caught me playfully kissing boys in preschool.

 

[truagape]

thats because your febal attempt a few days ago to try to support the deal with rain that intergrating is aload by everything material or alive is kicking YOU ALL RIGHT IN THE BUT

I’m sorry buddy, but I’m having a hard time trying to understand you.

 

[jcrichton]

I think that peduzzi is speaking of sexual relationships between two people of the same sex that is committed, monogamous, and loving. Some people believe that the Bible was only referencing the kind of homosexual acts that occur in the settings of orgies and/or that are promiscuous in nature. There is the belief by some that these are the types of homosexual acts the Bible speak of, and not ones that are a part of a monogamous and committed relationship. However, the Bible does not differentiate these two different types of relationships, and it really does not need to given what we know about the nature and purpose of human sexuality.

Just a side note, I do not believe you are fair to call homosexuals selfish. While I am sure some (or perhaps many) are, there are also many who are honestly trying to be good people…whether or not they are. Also, you do not know that genetics has nothing to do with homosexuality, and their is not enough proof for you, or anyone, to pontificate on whether or not it is somewhat or wholly caused by genetics. We know that acts are a choice, but the orientation itself and what causes it is still very unclear.

Hi, Kevin!

…so this genetics thing it only works if you know it exists?

In its golden age hollo-wood catered to its stars, which included homosexuals, but out of fear of becoming unpopular sheltered and protected their “problem” children… the industry conspired with its actors and actresses to deceive their audience ($$$$$…); only when psychobabblelists introduced the idea that children benefited from divorce and that homosexuals needed special protection did hollo-wood, slowly, removed all the “protection” from their “special” children (I am talking about adult actors and actresses) who would no longer face rejection for being homosexuals, poligamists, drugadicts, alcoholics… ditto with the general population, degradation continues to be the norm and moral values (as the movies and shows cotinue to be produced to not only reflect such ideologies but to foster them) are just shy of becoming an extinct species… genetics?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[warriorofpeace]

ill respong hitlor hated jews because when he was in himlor his home town as a child he saw all the rich businesses were jews so he gradually hated them for that

 

[jcrichton]

Man’s moral nature? I’m sorry, you must live on another planet. As soon as I step away from this terminal and back into reality it will probably take me about 5minutes before I run into someone that will verbally insult me, speak down to me, and spew bile and hatred. There’s about a 75% chance they’ll use the bible to do it too.

At least now they just say words. If I lived decades or maybe a century ago I would have simply been stoned to death when I came of age, if not before.

…hatred is deeply rooted in self not in the Bible… if you lived in the Orthodox Jewish community you probably would have been stoned to death… but if you moved into the pagan (Gentile) cities there would be some that would have welcomed you…

Perspectives… one group shuns you while another embraces you… I think this is still the dilemma today… people want to live a life of sin but reject the Church’s mandate that they give it up… when the Church points to Scriptures they want the Church to show them where their own particular names or practice is found as rejected by God…

Liberal Christianity is wonderful… hollo-wood has piles and piles of films based on it!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

My point is that you seem to think morality is innate, and people should just ‘get’ it. Yet all the brutality, mocking, assaults, attempted rape and firings were all done by people thinking they were doing their ‘Christian’ duty.

If I went purely on my life’s experiences, I would determine that christianity innately makes you a bad person. Do I actually believe that? Of course not, but it has always what people have used to justify their hatred of me, because I am a living embodiment of sin.

…hate is not something taught by Scriptures… just because someone claims to be representing God’s Word does not mean that they are… Jesus commanded “…love your enemies…” that inherently includes homosexuals… to hate you or abuse you (physically and mentally) because you are homosexual is not a Christian act nor a Christian duty/mandate!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[truagape]

… Jesus commanded “…love your enemies…” that inherently includes homosexuals…

Wow, if anyone ever needed proof to show just how damaging the Church’s unscriptural, yet influential teaching is regarding “homosexuality”, there it is in your own, distorted line of reasoning above. What a way to turn your tongue into a blade of weaponary.

 

[jcrichton]

Ok first of all, I must point out, Bennie, that you do not know what causes homosexuality, whether genes or otherwise, unless they’ve made some breakthrough discovery. How dare you presume to understand something so well that you obviously do not. Like so many other ignorant people you assume to say that homosexuality only breeds lust, which is not true. Which is kind of my whole point - sure The Bible says about men lusting after one another, but 2 men can indeed feel about each other the same way that a man can feel about a woman. Whether or not you believe this is immaterial because I have seen it with my own eyes and even felt it myself. Also, Mea Culpa et al could you please READ what I’m actually saying instead of what you think I’m saying? I didn’t say the Bible is completely invalid. I said that you have to think about the context and translation in order to fully understand it. And I said, twice, that the words themselves are not ambiguous - I can read you know. But do you know the original ancient Hebrew, greek or roman words that we now have translated as homosexuality? They point towards men who rape men, male prostitutes, men who abuse young boys, the boys they abuse, and ritual homosexual orgies. I’m sure you would agree that the countless times that the Bible mentions slavery are not a justification for it. Why? Because we analyze it and apply it to modern day life. But with homosexuality you love to revert to literalism to get the point across that you believe to be true.

…so as long as I have sex with one woman at a time, keep from exploiting them sexually (no drugs, alcohol, money or other material “gifts,” no sex for favors and no forced sex) its OK?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Do you mind elaborating about this?

…I can do one better:

Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (St. Matthew 28:19)

Jesus made His Church an Universal (Catholic) Church!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

for it is also said for two or more gather in my name i will be present and it will be considered also to be of my church

Hi, bullfrog!

…can’t say that I am familiar with that particular Scriptural passage, could you cite the book, chapter and verse?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

You’re right it is getting off topic. Because I wasn’t interested in what you claim the referenced “church” later came to be recognized as. I was interested in the fact that the scripture which saw fit to identify the followers of Christ as being “christians”, says absolutely nothing about their church being “Catholic”. And this fact present itself in what indeed is the “early Church”. So when you say that "the early church even called itself the “Catholic Church”, (and you underlined early to make your point), that is misleading to say the least. That statment hides the fact that your reference point for “early” is actually after the penning of Scripture". And for Catholics who erroneously assert that the Catholic church “practically wrote the new testament” (as a poster in another thread retorted), oddly enough that same “Church”, left its own name out. Because not one verse in all of scripture ever referes to the “early church” as being “Catholic”. Out of the two fundamental elements of Catholicism: “Catholic”, and “Christian”, one is sorely missing from the pages of God’s Word.

Are you real? Where in the Gospels does Christ call anyone an Apostle? A Bishop? An Elder? A Decon? A Christian?

Where in the New Testament do the Apostles call the Church the Early Church?

Which of the Apostles coined “Bible?”

It seems that you want the Church to remain unchanging and stoic; the Church is organic; she is led by the Holy Spirit who was sent by Jesus to bring us the fulness of Truth–this includes enlightenment, revelations, and the development of its mechanisms (Sacred Writings, organization, functions, titles…); to deny the Holy Spirit is to deny Salvation!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[truagape]

Are you real? Where in the Gospels does Christ call anyone an Apostle? A Bishop? An Elder? A Decon? A Christian?

You can not be serious. Perhaps instead of playing hop-scotch throughout this thread, dropping empty remarks throughout, you could buy out your own time and do some personal bible reading for yourself.

 

[jcrichton]

As I said before and will say again if I have to, your use of the term “early Church”, relies on what proceeds after the “early Church” as penned in Scripture. According to the dates you provided, the earliest reference of what you call the “Catholic” church as recorded in Acts, referes to its followers as “Christians”, all the while the church you claim they belonged to: the “Catholic Church”, dosent get discovered until nearly a half a century later. Are you suggesting that the “first Pope”, Peter, never equated the “early Church”, in Acts with the “Catholic Church”?

…you do not discover something that exists!

The Way did not stop existing when the term “Christian” was applied to it… the Christian Church did not cease to exist when it became known as the Catholic Church–coincidentally, the Catholic Church existed till the end of the 14th Century without any challenge to her Apostolic Succession; this challange only surfaced as splinter groups wanted to have their own authority as the Church of Christ; ignorance and atheism have assisted in confusing a clear and cut issue: the Holy Spirit has guided the Church and has maintained it as Christ’s only Founded Church since that fateful day when Christ Jesus revealed His desire to maintain a physical Body to bring the news of the Heavenly Kingdom to the world.

Conversely, the Judaic system of synagogues exist throughout the world; yet, that does not make it Universal (Catholic) as their aim is to serve the Jews and Jewish converts not to promote Christ’s Gospel to all the world.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

And this, Mea Culpa is where we get to a brick wall. When all else fails for the Catholic side of the argument. one goes to the Magisterium. And that is where we part ways - because I believe it is wrong. I know what you’re going to say to that, so save yourself the time and we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that. But there is one more thing. One that you are more wrong about than you can possibly imagine. Same sex couples CAN have the same sort of relationship as heterosexual couples do. Whether or not you believe it to be wrong, sinful, disordered, unnatural, or whatever else is fine, but it’s still there. To presume to know what other people can or cannot feel is completely ignorant and incorrect. Despite what you think of it, 2 men can love eachother and complement eachother emotionally in the same way as a man and a woman. That is not a debatable subject. There is no matter of opinion there. It is as black and white as the letters on this page: it exists.

…so what is your aim? If you reject the Catholic Church why are you seeking Catholics to approve of your lifestyle?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

peduzzi89, I agree with you. My brother’s relationship with his partner has manifested this to me. I don’t understand it totally, I don’t need to, but I know it exits.

…so does a dog loyalty for its owner… I don’t understand it but there it is!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I became ‘angry and confused’ before I knew how to tie my shoes then! That’s when I started acting a-typically gendered, at about…oh…three according to my parents. I’m sure I had lots of decision making powers back then.

Never mind the whole fact that ‘created them man and woman’ doesn’t happen all the time either. I was born in between, neither male nor female. Even if there was issues with my parent’s raising of me, they certainly didn’t have any choice or control over my conception, other than that they had the option to abort and did not.

…so all homosexuals begin by having both male and female sexual organs (or partial)?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[pathia]

…so all homosexuals begin by having both male and female sexual organs (or partial)?

Maran atha!

Angel

No, I am intersexed.

In the womb, all of us start female, and some triggers make males, male. If those triggers are not done right, or done at the wrong time, or done partially. You get an intersexed child. The word used in the past is hermaphrodite, but is out of date.

 

[truagape]

jcrichton, you seem to be too busy having fun playing hop-scoth. So for now, I will not stand in your way. Go ahead and get it all out of your system!