Homosexuality in geneology?

[Spirithound]

And it’s plain obvious today that many people ARE born gay. There are many individuals who have stated that they were gay from as soon as they started being attracted to others. And other individuals clearly state they have always felt as if they were in the wrong body.

But yes, people can also gradually become gay through upbringing, environment and choice as thistle posted.

Consider “trends” in heterosexual “preferences”. Does every culture in every time-period prefer the same physical type of woman? (No) Does that then mean that there are genetic differences not only between cultures, but within that same culture, in different time periods?(Also no) If there is no genetic reason for someone preferring a particular breast size, why should we say there is one between those who prefer a person with either a penis or a vagina?

 

[onetimeposter]

Actually we call identical twins identical because they come from the same fertilized egg or zygote. Thus, the DNA is identical.

Funny thing twins…

I went to highschool with a set of male twins.

Twin A) One of the twins had girls all over him, all the time and we envied him.

Twin B) The other twin, still popular with the girls, certainly did not have the same attention that his brother commanded.

Guess which twin is an open homosexual? Twin A came out of the closet about 10 years ago. Twin B is a heterosexual.

Looking back, it was so blatantly obvious that Twin A was gay, as although he surrounded himself with girls, I was not shocked when I heard the news all those years ago.

Their father was a fireman ( tough guy), married parents, I’m pretty sure they had a stay at home mom, normal family, good guys…both of them…very popular lads they were.

His family supports him, they love him, they do not shun him and they accept him for who he is and how he was most certainly born.

True story!

 

[SilentKnight]

Passive aggressive at its best.

What a polite way to inform me that you believe I’m outside the grace of God and therefor going to hell.

Sorry, but since I’m not God and do not currently possess the ability to read souls, I don’t know for sure if you are outside the grace of God or not. Hence, the verbage, “I fear that…”, as opposed to, “You’re going to hell”.

SK

 

[onetimeposter]

Sorry, but since I’m not God and do not currently possess the ability to read souls, I don’t know for sure if you are outside the grace of God or not. Hence, the verbage, “I fear that…”, as opposed to, “You’re going to hell”.

SK

Semantics.

 

[SilentKnight]

Judgmentality?

SK

 

[thistle]

Semantics.

You still did not answer my question in an earlier post. You are a Catholic. Do you accept the Church’s teaching that homosexuality is a grave sin?

 

[onetimeposter]

You still did not answer my question in an earlier post. You are a Catholic. Do you accept the Church’s teaching that homosexuality is a grave sin?

I disagree with the Church in many areas of morality. It wasn’t always that way…just a short while ago, if the Church said it I believed it, regardless if I felt a little voice in my gut telling me that it didn’t feel right…I just repressed that feeling.

It’s easy to agree with everything the Church says, so long as your not actually challenged with the very moral questions you claim to accept unconditionally.

You know what, I’ve started to listen that voice and I’m not afraid of the answers I may find. ( and no, the voice, it’s not Satan ).

I have chosen my signature for a reason.

 

[thistle]

I disagree with the Church in many areas of morality. It wasn’t always that way…just a short while ago, if the Church said it I believed it, regardless if I felt a little voice in my gut telling me that it didn’t feel right…I just repressed that feeling.

It’s easy to agree with everything the Church says, so long as your not actually challenged with the very moral questions you claim to accept unconditionally.

You know what, I’ve started to listen that voice and I’m not afraid of the answers I may find. ( and no, the voice, it’s not Satan ).

I have chosen my signature for a reason.

Everything that is in the CCC must be accepted, even if you do not fully understand it.

CCC 2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

 

[onetimeposter]

Everything that is in the CCC must be accepted, even if you do not fully understand it.

CCC 2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

I am well aware of this, and I will remind you of my last post…there was a time a short while ago where I believed anything and everything the Church said…without question.

Like I said, it’s easy to accept the Church’s teachings…so long as you don’t actually have to face those teachings in real life.

The questions have started, I am not afraid.

 

[para8888]

I’ve had plenty of gay friends and I can tell you for a fact they are gay. They didn’t decide to be gay, they weren’t abused. They’re just gay.

…and they were BORN that way. The same way I was born heterosexual.
You may not understand it. You may not approve of it, but that’s the way things are.

Every religious book on the planet was written by men, distributed by men and promoted by men…all with their own different values

 

[anoynted1]

Every religious book on the planet was written by men, distributed by men and promoted by men…all with their own different values

Para8888, you’re so angry. But just because one is angry & matter-of-fact in their tone, doesn’t make them right.
No one is saying not love person’s who are caught up in the choice of homosexualiy. Many well-meaning people who know that homosexuality is wrong, have been very mean-spirited in their response to those of the homsoexual persuasion, That prompts a backlash against the church & the teaching of scripture.
Our first protocal is always to show love.

I would take it that you are an educated person w/@ the very least, a high school diploma. You had to study books in school in order to get your degree. Those books were written by men as well. Doest that invalidate your learning?
Whether you like it or not, the bible is the WORD OF GOD
That will not change. You don’t have to believe it. You don’t have to accept it. But that does not change the authenticity of scripture.
If you were a student of scripture & studied the bible diligently, attended Mass faithfully, prayed earnestly, recieved humbly from the Spirit, you would know that the bible is RIGHT *****
I know that’s not what you want to hear, but it is the truth.
If you were to be student of scripture, you would know that the bible spoke of the times that we’re living in. That the time would come when people would not tolerate sound doctrine, but would gravitate towards teachings that are pleasing to them.
You would know that the bible says that the time would come when men would try to institue laws that would lead to depravity.
Now as defense mechanism, a person might say in response that they do read the bible. But are you a disciple of study? What have you exposed yoursef more to-The Word or persons of whatever it is you’ve come to believe? You can continue to be angry & defensive, it’s completely up to you. But holiness is still right. Homosexuality is wrong. Man can change laws & say that it’s right, but that doesn’t make it so.
They’re already saying in some countries & even some of our United States it’s a hate crime to say homosexuality is wrong. Why? Becuase it hurts us when someone tells us that what we want to do is against God. That’s arrogance & pride, the flesh in all of its glory.*

 

[Joe_5859]

To the OP:

You might try looking at this thread:

The “Gay Gene”: Does It Matter?

(You really only need to read the first 20 or so posts as the rest of the thread goes a bit off topic.)

I’m not sure why this topic elicits such heated debate. From a moral standpoint, whether SSA is the result of genetics, or environment, or a combination of the two (it doesn’t have to be
either/or" after all), it really doesn’t matter. The acts are considered gravely disordered and ought not to be committed. However, we cannot really judge a particular individual’s culpability for such acts (as with any sin). It’s really no more complicated than that.

As a previous poster said, the only difference this would make might be for those who want treatment for SSA (although even if the cause is genetic, that doesn’t mean that psychological counselling can’t be effective in treating SSA).

Dr. Joseph Nicolosi is one psychologist who has had great success with treating SSA and has written several books on the subject. He is president-emeritus of NARTH (National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality). That site has lots of info, including gobs of articles on the “born that way” theory.

 

[Joe_5859]

Funny thing twins…

I went to highschool with a set of male twins.

Twin A) One of the twins had girls all over him, all the time and we envied him.

Twin B) The other twin, still popular with the girls, certainly did not have the same attention that his brother commanded.

Guess which twin is an open homosexual? Twin A came out of the closet about 10 years ago. Twin B is a heterosexual.

Looking back, it was so blatantly obvious that Twin A was gay, as although he surrounded himself with girls, I was not shocked when I heard the news all those years ago.

Their father was a fireman ( tough guy), married parents, I’m pretty sure they had a stay at home mom, normal family, good guys…both of them…very popular lads they were.

His family supports him, they love him, they do not shun him and they accept him for who he is and how he was most certainly born.

True story!

Interesting… Were they identical twins?

 

[para8888]

Every religious book on the planet was written by men, distributed by men and promoted by men…all with their own different values

Para8888, you’re so angry. But just because one is angry & matter-of-fact in their tone, doesn’t make them right.
No one is saying not love person’s who are caught up in the choice of homosexualiy. Many well-meaning people who know that homosexuality is wrong, have been very mean-spirited in their response to those of the homsoexual persuasion, That prompts a backlash against the church & the teaching of scripture.
Our first protocal is always to show love.

I would take it that you are an educated person w/@ the very least, a high school diploma. You had to study books in school in order to get your degree. Those books were written by men as well. Doest that invalidate your learning?
Whether you like it or not, the bible is the WORD OF GOD
That will not change. You don’t have to believe it. You don’t have to accept it. But that does not change the authenticity of scripture.
If you were a student of scripture & studied the bible diligently, attended Mass faithfully, prayed earnestly, recieved humbly from the Spirit, you would know that the bible is RIGHT
I know that’s not what you want to hear, but it is the truth.
If you were to be student of scripture, you would know that the bible spoke of the times that we’re living in. That the time would come when people would not tolerate sound doctrine, but would gravitate towards teachings that are pleasing to them.
You would know that the bible says that the time would come when men would try to institue laws that would lead to depravity.
Now as defense mechanism, a person might say in response that they do read the bible. But are you a disciple of study? What have you exposed yoursef more to-The Word or persons of whatever it is you’ve come to believe? You can continue to be angry & defensive, it’s completely up to you. But holiness is still right. Homosexuality is wrong. Man can change laws & say that it’s right, but that doesn’t make it so.
They’re already saying in some countries & even some of our United States it’s a hate crime to say homosexuality is wrong. Why? Becuase it hurts us when someone tells us that what we want to do is against God. That’s arrogance & pride, the flesh in all of its glory.**

You sound EXACTLY like the radical Muslims on the other side of the world who teach that the Quran is Allah’s exact words.

The FACT of the matter is that the Bible was written by men. Just as every other holy book of every religion was. That’s not going to change, no matter how you try and slant it.
To take for fact that everything in a book is without flaw is ridiculous and non-sensical. I feel very sorry for the blind believers.

 

[onetimeposter]

Interesting… Were they identical twins?

No they weren’t identical.

 

[SilentKnight]

I’m not sure why this topic elicits such heated debate. From a moral standpoint, whether SSA is the result of genetics, or environment, or a combination of the two (it doesn’t have to be
either/or" after all), it really doesn’t matter. The acts are considered gravely disordered and ought not to be committed. However, we cannot really judge a particular individual’s culpability for such acts (as with any sin). It’s really no more complicated than that.

Exaaaaactly. That’s the message a couple of us have been trying to get across for a while now in this thread, to no avail apparently.

Presumably the belief is that if homosexuality has a biological component to it, then that automatically infers that homosexuality is normative and immutable. (“See? That’s the way God made me.”) If it does not, this would infer that it is, instead, a strict matter of free choice and not an intrinsic aspect of someone’s identity and this then makes it a moral issue.

The obvious problem with this analysis is all the biological abnormalities that exist in nature, some of which predispose people to certain immoral actions. People with Turret’s syndrome, for example, are prone to spontaneously swear and tic. People with Fetal Alcohol syndrome tend to have shorter “fuses” than others, etc. These things are not “normal”. They are not something to be “proud” of, but healed to the extent that this is possible. To the extent that it is not, those who suffer from them must do the best they can to overcome the abnormal tendencies (swearing, lashing out at people, etc.).

And on the flip side of the coin, just because something is a choice doesn’t automatically mean it’s a moral issue either. If my preference is for chocolate ice cream and yours is for vanilla…obviously it doesn’t really matter.

Sexuality does matter (obviously). Very much so. And regardless of its source (nature, nurture, or neither - or both), the choice must still be made to act in accordance with true love, which is defined by and can only be defined by God, who has made it very clear that homosexual activity is not a manifestation of authentic love.

SK

 

[ljahns]

I’d rather spend a Saturday watching baseball than the Food network, would line up for Iron Man but run screaming from Sex in the City and spending a day at the Mall trying on clothes…well, let’s say I’d rather be yanked out of an airline window at 35,000 feet.

You’re not the only one who wants to run screaming from Sex in the City or spend a day at the mall trying on clothes! UUUUGGG!

I’m female and heterosexual and also would rather watch Iron Man and hockey than the Food Network (though I will have to admit I do watch it.)

I also have had many gay friends over the years. They never indicated to me that they were unhappy or struggling with their sexual orientation. I also have a cousin who is gay. She and her partner have been together for about 11 years now and they adopted a child from Russia last year.

My aunt (not her mother thank GOD) said that the child would be better off dead than with my cousin and her partner! I wanted to slap her. If my cousin had not adopted that child he would be dead! He was very sick. They spent literally thousands of dollars to have their son which goes to show that some homosexual couples live Christian lives even if they find it impossible to adhere to what the church teaches about what they are.

I struggle with what the church teaches about homosexuality. Though I do not believe gay couples have a sacramental marriage, I find that I can neither condone what they do nor condem it. My conscience requires that I remain neutral in this argument.

 

[BeeSweet]

You folks might be interested in reading and discussing an article in this months Psychology Today:

Homosexuality may persist because the associated genes convey surprising advantages on homosexuals’ family members.Finding the Switch

http://www.psychologytoday.com/images/issue_archive/2008_05.jpg

If there is one thing that has always seemed obvious about homosexuality, it’s that it just doesn’t make sense. Evolution favors traits that aid reproduction, and being gay clearly doesn’t do that. The existence of homosexuality amounts to a profound evolutionary mystery, since failing to pass on your genes means that your genetic fitness is a resounding zero. “Homosexuality is effectively like sterilization,” says psychobiologist Qazi Rahman of Queen Mary College in London. “You’d think evolution would get rid of it.” Yet as far as historians can tell, homosexuality has always been with us. So the question remains: If it’s such a disadvantage in the evolutionary rat race, why was it not selected into oblivion millennia ago?

 

[onaquest]

I have wondered if there has been a study on special needs adults. I have worked with a small number of adults with special needs. Are there any cases of homosexuality in this pure people?

 

[SilentKnight]

What would that prove if there were?

SK