Homosexuality in geneology?

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Read a few posts back. Sodomite mainly appears to refer to male prostitutes, not all male homosexuals.
…that’s what someone has determined, not what it means…

If I were to say “Forty-Niners” it could mean several things; without direct clear reference only by search for the root meaning and comparing it with the context of the phrase could the meaning be determined. My first thought was that football team–so if I were to add “San Francisco” or direct language that would clarify that I was speaking about the sport (American football) it would be clear to the reader that I was not speaking about some hick-ville’s (just as an example of speech) shootists or goldminers…

Sodomites as definition of male prostitutes is quite weak unless further search is done to connect the term to something more specific as Sodom!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
There is absolutely nothing in scripture about my screwed up birth, yet the church forces celibacy on me as well. Why? I have never, ever had this explained to me. Especially considering that the majority of the reason I am in such a horrible situation is because of the church’s advice in the first place to my parents!
…the Church told your parents to consume or ingest chemicals that compromised your chromosonal development?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
It was always my understanding that angels were supposed to be androgynous, and as they were ANGELS not men, I think the crime of trying to rape them was somewhat different than just what we call sodomy today. Raping God’s servants I think would be just about the worst possible thing you could do. Regardless of the sort of contact it was, rape is rape, rape is NOT sex. If angels had come down in female form, I quite imagine God would have destroyed the cities all the same.

The one time someone tried to rape me, it was a straight guy, and yet he knew what I was, he knew my history. What was the rape about? Power, domination, humiliation, brutality. It had nothing to do with ‘sex’.
…androgynous? I think that’s hollo-wood’s determination. The fact that they are spiritual beings does not mean that they possess both afinities (male & female).

Your argument about the angels coming in the form of females is wrong because Lot offered his virgin daughters instead of the men and the people refused to allow the offering appease their lust for the “new blood.”

Maran atha!

Angel
 
…the Church told your parents to consume or ingest chemicals that compromised your chromosonal development?

Maran atha!

Angel
Uh…no…chromosomes are done at conception, it’s when the egg and sperm combine.

The priests advocated surgery for me shortly after birth to ‘clarify’ my gender, and it mangled me in the process and also making me completely unsuitable and impossible to consummate the marriage act, making me unable to marry in the church as a result.
 
Jcrichton, you seem to have a case of diarrhea of the mouth. You are skimming through this thread acting like you are sooo smart making random little senseless comments when you obviously don’t understand what everyone is saying. About your comments to me, A) like so many other people you are assuming homosexuality only has to do with sex. It would not be right for anyone to just have sex, even if it is monogamous. Perhaps you could read through everything I’ve been saying to know where I’m coming from on all this rather than me repeating it. And B) I’m not rejecting the Catholic Church, I’m saying there is no Biblical basis for saying that all forms of homosexuality are wrong. You know, you really need to truly follow this thread rather than just randomly picking little parts to interject your word vomit. Like, for instance, when you decided to simply ignore my last comment to you (I guess because you couldn’t refute it) and add a few smart-alec remarks to other random passages of mine. Get it together.
 
I’m a intersexed individual who rejected the assignment I was given shortly after birth, therefore I am also a transsexual. Transsexual with intersexed past, or maybe Intersexed person who is also transsexual? I don’t know, there is not much terminology for people like me, because it involves two subgroups that don’t usually work together politically (Intersex and GLBT)

As for anatomy…uh…that’s kinda personal 😛
…intersexed? Do you mean you were born a man but as early as three years of age decided that you rather be a female?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
…intersexed? Do you mean you were born a man but as early as three years of age decided that you rather be a female?

Maran atha!

Angel
No. Intersex is the new word for the condition known as hermaphroditism. It means when I was born, they did not know if I was a boy or a girl completely, tests had to be run and they performed surgery on me.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
 
This doesn’t make much sense to me. Since does ‘know them’ mean anal sex? I’m pretty steeped in the gay agenda and its history. I don’t think ‘know you’ or ‘know them’ has ever been innuendo for sex. Also, if they were ALL sodomites, why did God have to bother destroying it? They would have all died out after a generation. That particular story has never made any sense no matter how it is explained to me. There is something missing.
…today everyone says “I love…” the culture created by hollo-wood constantly made it a difficult thing for a man to say to his girlfriend or wife… people ran with it… today people (crazy crazy crazy people–my personal enphasis) call their animals “child” or “son” or “daughter” or “baby…” it is understandable that you do not recognize Biblical language that means to have sexual intimacy with someone as the term “know (to know).”

If you read the context of the the term (all of that particular Biblical passage) it cannot escape you that Lot knew that the men wanted to have sex with the angels (know that the town’s people, which includes Lot, did not know that these men whom Lot was hosting were actual angels); he went all out to save them from the town’s debauchery… even to the point of offering his virgen dauthers–something that usually appeals to most men!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Yes, and the book of Mormon, and the Koran even. I don’t pay much attention to the Old Testament though, it’s steeped in myth and legend as much as epic greek/roman poems.
…say no more!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I think you and I both know that it is not that cut and dry. To take Jesus’s words about spreading the good news throughout all the nations, and then to synnonymise “worldwide” with “catholic” only to validate what is known outside of scripture today as the “Catholic Church”, is to create a false preception of continuity. The fact remains that none of the congregations (as you believe to be headed by the first pope, Peter) ever referred to themselves as Catholic. Despite this, the “early Church”, still took Jesus commend to “spread the Gospel across the entire earth” just as seriously, as exemplified by Paul.
If you want to support the belief that “even the early Church called itself Catholic”, find continue on. It just needs to be clear that the “early Church” that did this was the “early Catholic Church”, whose first reference, as you state is in AD110; not the same “early Church” as depicted all throughout the New Testament.
…so, outside of the Catholic Church, which group traces their origin to Christ? Unless you’ve lived in a vacuum you cannot honestly think that every mom and pop group that traces its history to a few dozen years or maybe even a fifty or one hundred years could determine their origin as far back as the Catholic Church–coincidentally, the only actual source that can trace its historical existence throughout the hundreds of years through its active role in society.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Given your need to post outside sources and references, you ought to have access to enough information to see the fallacy, dishonesty, and the manipulation the above quote of yours is guilty of!

You take the narrative of the Sodom story as recorded in Genesis and proceed to extract from it what you see fit. Using this flawed approach you could just as easily find no problem with a present day father throwing his daughters to an angry mob in an effort to control their sexual appetite since this action takes place in Genesis without condemnation. (that is, if what the mob indeed wanted was of a sexual nature to begin with!)

You’re post above is right about one thing though. The blatant lie that Sodom’s sin was homosexuality “has been accepted for centuries…” and … “even entered our language with terms like sodomite and sodomy.” In fact you may want to fire up your mouse and start point-clicking your way to some more facts! At what point in history did the word “sodomite” come onto the scene? Because not one passage in all of scripture ever uses this word. Out of all the supposed “anti-gay” scriptures that exist, not even one of them ever uses the Sodom story as a reference. In fact, it’s the Jude 7 passage, with it’s use of the term “sarkos heteras”, that makes the equation of Sodom and homosexuality impossible! Perhaps you can point-and click up commentary from the 1966 Jerusalem Bible (by the way a Catholic translation), if you’d rather not hear it from me.

And while you’re at it, consider this: You seem to like the man-made word of “sodomite”. Well, you’re obviously not alone, because many influential, biased “bible translators”, have erroneously used this word to “translate” a word found in 1 Cor. 6-9 and 1 Tim. 1-10. Do you know what Greek word that is? I’m sure you do. Do you care? If Truth is your concern, you should. It’s “arsenokoite(s)”. Since modern “religious authorities” have progressed the manipulation process to the point of equating this Greek word with “sodomites” and inturn “homosexuals”, perhaps you can find one Church Father (there no quotes are you happy?) that too recognized this Greek word in reference to “homosexuality”. I asked you before, and you evaded the question, so I’m asking you again.

If you put to the test that which I propose within this post, you will have no choice but to retreat from your erroneous, cultrually biased, unscriptural view that “Sodom’s sin was homosexuality”. Not to mention that the first commentary recorded regarding their reason for destruction was by God himself, expressed around 591 B.C.E with no mention of “homosexuality”! If however, you choose not to put to the test any of my words, this too is your choice. And the facts of your position will confirm that it will indeed be a dishonest one!
…speaking of dishonesty, why do you care if the Bible and the Church reject homosexual behavior? …if you stop for a second to read the text, more than once the issue of not simply the term “homosexual” or “sodomite” has been offered… the terminalogy of the abnormal use (sexual meaning) of a man with a man and a woman with a woman is termed by Scriptures as an abomination!

If you do not want to accept it, fine. But you cannot change God’s Mind! …the old saying is just so true: “…your arm’s too short to fight with God!”

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Actually, I did the opposite. I disconnected the two and said you could have 1 Cor 6:9. Might help to re-read my post. Do so carefully please.

SK
Hi, SilentKnight!

…I think that is the problem… your posts are not being read… Greek happens to be Greek to me but I identified several instences when the issue of the “term” has been defined and re-defined… sadly, I don’t think there’s anyone home to heed your words!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Except it happens in reality all the time. I am living proof. Whether or not God willed it, or it happened because of the fallen state of our world, people are born without a sex, or with both. God could have stopped that from happening to me, but he let it happen. Why? He chose to let these birth defects happen, and they have happened in all recorded history. I have been brutalized, assaulted, mocked, spat on, fired, shamed, shunned, asked to leave church, and even had someone attempted rape. All were done by Christians in a twisted view of their faith.

I would have a perfectly normal life if it wasn’t for the Christians!
I do not mean to demean you… if you were born with both sexual organs (or partials) it is terrible burden for anyone to have to live with–I will pray for your wellbeing…

Perhaps you are right… perhaps God could have stopped the defect from happening… but would that not make God a servant of His creatures? …would He not have to do the same for all humans, everywhere in the world, even devil worshippers?

What about those who purposefully abuse drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, prescription drugs, use contraceptives, alter their bodies with various hormones…?

When would it be OK for Him to take charge, to what point, would request for new organs, new body parts, new bodies, rejuvenation, longevity, bringing back to life the loved ones that die untimely death…?

…my heart goes to you for your terrible experience… but have you considered that these people that caused you harm were not really Christians or quite ignorant Christians or simply fearful because they felt attracted to you…? Regardless of the reason, it was wrong of them to hurt you–I can asure you that they did not follow any Christian Teaching to commit to such horrific behavior.

I have learned that many people hide their fears and cowardice behind bigotted and sadistic behavior; sadly, they always look for excuses rather then to own up to their failures (much like the guys that beat on their girlfriends/wifes and always blame their victims with “…you made/make me do it…”

Why do you care about what Christians think?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
If you disagree with the Catholic Church about homosexuality, it ultimately will come down to authority and the source and root of the teaching, just as it does for any other issue. Some homosexuals think it’s wrong and some heterosexuals think it’s right, and vice versa. There are multiple interpretations, just like other issues, but only one is correct. Catholics believe the Church can never teach error. So, rather than debate the teaching itself, the debate should center around authority, at least when the Catholic Church is involved.

If a roof is leaking water, would you put a bucket down to catch the water thinking that would solve the problem or would you direct your attention to the hole in the roof? I’m not implying that the Catholic Church needs to be fixed, rather that ones energy should first be focused on understanding where the authority is derived, then everything else will fall into place.
…I think that it is much simpler than that… you do not like something… you change it! You do not like the Church you create your own (wait that’s been done to death, hasn’t it?)… you submit! It is God’s Will vs ours; the Church is His Body on earth: done deal!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
jcrichton, perhaps what I am saying is unclear. What I am saying is that the conclusion the church teaching is drawing about homosexuality from the scripture is incorrect because they are assuming the Bible is making a blanket statement about all people attracted to the same sex, when in fact it talks about more specific acts of homosexuality, a conclusion that can be drawn once one analyzes the context and the origin of our translation. How is that contradicting myself? And also, I’m not sure what you’re getting at with your other comment, about Jesus, or how it relates to the passage you quoted above it. Could you explain a little further? Warriorofpeace, I’m sorry to say I don’t understand any of the posts you are posting or the meaning of the word gloabblly.
Hi, peduzzi!

I am speaking about terminologies… you can well use a modern term and claim it is not Scriptural or you could use a Scriptural term and claim that it has not been correctly translated… if it were that clean cut it would be easy read… however, most problems with “term” people is that they ignore context and content; that is they hold on to what they perceive as “error” in language and they ignore the complete sentence, paragraph, chapter, book, and compilation… if you like to explore Biblical text (know that I am not a theologian or scholar/linguist) I am willing to do it with you–not in the US moder term of do it! 😛

I’ve been working several sites so unless you make a direct reference with the system “wrap in quotes” tool I cannot recall the exact post you are requesting that I clarify… about Jesus’ words and His exactness: He is quoting Genesis and reaffirming the value of marriage: man and woman are married under God and they are obliged to live a faithful and loyal life, in God–there’s no room for same sex unions because God did not create man or woman to engage in such unions.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
cargau;3828967:
I wonder if Jeffrey Dahmer had a gene that made him a mass murderer. Or if Hitler had a gene that made him hate Jews.

QUOTE]

When science destroys the soul, all that’s left to govern behavior is genetics.

Pretty soon we’ll be picking and choosing (wait a minute! We already are!) and manipulating our ‘spawn’ to our liking. For the greater good of the future breeders, of course. That’s all we end up being, when souls are taken out of the picture. Hairless, ugly apes. With guns.😛

I must be spelling it wrong in my head, but isn’t geneology that…thing with family trees and all?
Hi, Dtmccameron!

…so what’s wrong with apes carrying guns? …don’t you know that guns don’t kill people… it’s people who build the guns more efficiently with many more rounds that are sold to the general public who have the right to bear guns because the 13 colonies do not have a standing army nor police force and are afraid that the people who are elected to govern them might become too much like their previous loving monarch who dictated where, with whom, when, and how to worship and/or gather with other people who kill people? 😛

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Well if you’re talking about terminologies, what I am saying is that the word that we now read, “homosexual” was not even in use in Biblical times. So to read it and to assume that it meant when it was written the same that we think of it today is completely innacurate and to me counterproductive in trying to learn the message that the Bible is really conveying. Also, I am aware of the concept of God making man and women designed to be together and carry one life. But Jesus never condemned any other situation either. I mean if God made man and woman how do you explain cases like intersexed individuals?
 
I can understand people being afraid after that and not wanting to associate with guys but that doesn’t automatically make them gay, they would have to experiment with it, and the experimenting part is just as much of a mortal sin as actually becoming gay.
Hi, Jesus is my Rock!

Here’s how St. Paul puts it:

15 Know you not that your bodies are the members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid! 16 Or know you not that he who is joined to a harlot is made one body? For they shall be, saith he, two in one flesh. 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. 18 Fly fornication. Every sin that a man doth is without the body: but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 Or know you not that your members are the temple of the Holy Ghost, who is in you, whom you have from God: and you are not your own? 20 For you are bought with a great price. Glorify and bear God in your body. (1 Corinthians 6:15-20)

…so you are absolutely correct… engaging in an act, even to see what it might be like, is giving into sin.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Wow, if anyone ever needed proof to show just how damaging the Church’s unscriptural, yet influential teaching is regarding “homosexuality”, there it is in your own, distorted line of reasoning above. What a way to turn your tongue into a blade of weaponary.
…let’s try this slowly…

Person “A” thinks he/she is a Christian…

Christ Commands that all His disciples love one another and, further, love even those who consider him/her as enemy…

Person “A” cannot claim to hate Person “B” because he/she has homosexual tendencies which are against God’s mandates; regardless of the stance person “A” is alone on such practice…

…now, how is that a damage committed by the Church?

I propose to you to forget all this nonsense, blaming the Church for your problems is like using drugs or alcohol to resolve them: they are still your problems and energies spent seeking to dumpt them on the other party was ill-spent!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
You can not be serious. Perhaps instead of playing hop-scotch throughout this thread, dropping empty remarks throughout, you could buy out your own time and do some personal bible reading for yourself.
…you must let me borrow that “define your own terms and interpret as you wish manual” that you are using!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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