Homosexuality is learned.

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Sorry none of this makes any sense at all nor does it relate to the thread. I believe for some homosexuals, the behavior is learned and ingrained by repetition just as is any pleasure cycle. We tend to de what rewards us mentally or emotionally or physically. Sexual desire and pleasure is a strong drive, made more strong by the constant barrage of the media, advertising, music, educational curricula (“Sex Week” anyone?) and just walking by a storefront. The repeated stimuli IMO makes sex into something of a false god to be sought and worshipped, starting at younger and younger ages. The impact of these constant images has to be substantial…and not to the benefit of the parties involved or society at large.

Lisa
You actually agree with me in what you write. The article I linked does relate to thread. Women were aroused by movies of humans and monkeys. If female arousal was dependent on emotion then we would have to assume the women had some emotional investment in the characters which was not stated in the report.

I totally agree with what you are saying about the rest though. Women go to all women colleges for a variety of reasons. Most girls I know would not even give an all women’s college a second thought. I think a lot of it has to do with women finding men threatening. You can’t very well be intimate with someone you find threatening so others girls fit the bill. I think its all psychological. Girls have an intense need for sex like guys but safety is more of a concern for girls.
 
In a secualr society? Society of course…in a religious society the predominant religion does I suppose…thankfully we do not live in a religiously dominated society…but a secular one.
You propose moral relativity. It cannot be the Truth, if it is relative to the “society” you plug yourself into. They may define it…but that doesn’t make it Truthful.

And I have to disagree, I am certainly not thankful we live in a predominantly secular society.
 
You actually agree with me in what you write. The article I linked does relate to thread. Women were aroused by movies of humans and monkeys. If female arousal was dependent on emotion then we would have to assume the women had some emotional investment in the characters which was not stated in the report.

I totally agree with what you are saying about the rest though. Women go to all women colleges for a variety of reasons. Most girls I know would not even give an all women’s college a second thought. I think a lot of it has to do with women finding men threatening. You can’t very well be intimate with someone you find threatening so others girls fit the bill. I think its all psychological. Girls have an intense need for sex like guys but safety is more of a concern for girls.
No I don’t agree with you nor did I say female sexual response is DEPENDENT on emotions. Nor do I think women have “an intense NEED for sex like guys.” There is a huge difference between the sexes and it’s not limited to indoor vs outdoor plumbing. Thus I think that male and female homosexuality are different in both cause and intensity. When women have sex a “bonding” chemical is stimulated in the brain. Thus it is harder for females to have casual sex without emotional upheaval. Our brains are different as any man can tell you.

BTW people can become sexually stimulated by a variety of bizarre sights and activities as any resident in an emergency room can tell you. One of my high school buddies became a forensic specialist and said there are people who have sex with dead animals. Perversion isn’t limited to one sex or the other. I can’t believe anyone paid for a study regarding women and monkeys. Probably another waste of our tax dollars.

Lisa
 
No, I will not reveal any of my studies, but I will say that I have several publications and did all my academic training at UCLA, which has one of the best psychology programs in the world. I’ve done research for the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Center, the Los Angles Sheriffs Department, and the RAND Corporation (a public policy think tank involving the CIA and the Air Force). I was way, way up there, but due to an inner voice, I traded it all to become a devout Catholic. I threw all my degrees in the trash bin and sold all my books in psychology and law. It was the best trade I ever made!

I worked as a research psychologist with personality as a major and statistics as a minor.

I’m really not Dr Robert Sock, so searching for it will get you nowhere.
So you are not a PhD. and you won’t reveal your studies which may have given you some credibility as far as some homosexual behavior may be learned. You are also not a doctor who has researched DNA or genetic possibilities for homosexuality.

Homosexuality has been around for centuries, often cited back to the Roman Ages. Then as now it seemed more social accepted, so more people experimented, much has we see today; however, there are just to be many things that point to the fact that many homosexuals are born the way they are. There are always going to be a small amount that choose the lifestyle, like people do drugs, to fit in or escape, but the vast majority are born that way.

My sister had a very close friend who was gay and I met many homosexual men at that time… Trust me when I tell you none of them would chose to be so unaccepted, abandoned, so damned to hell by family, by choice. No one would ever want that kind of life. It was who they were down to the core, every bit like I was born straight.
 
there are just to be many things that point to the fact that many homosexuals are born the way they are. There are always going to be a small amount that choose the lifestyle, like people do drugs, to fit in or escape, but the vast majority are born that way.

My sister had a very close friend who was gay and I met many homosexual men at that time… Trust me when I tell you none of them would chose to be so unaccepted, abandoned, so damned to hell by family, by choice. No one would ever want that kind of life. It was who they were down to the core, every bit like I was born straight.
All your perception. None of it scientific conclusion based on controlled data.

People drift into all kinds of lifestyles which much of society finds shameful or questionable or certainly subject to abandonment by others. Nevertheless, the pull of that lifestyle (be it habit, addiction, comfort, compensation – or whatever it is that the person values more than it values society’s acceptance or rejection) is a powerful force which allows the person, if not encourages and binds the person, to remain in the lifestyle. People also “choose” all kinds of alternative lifestyles out of weakness – i.e., they lack emotional strength to select the more difficult or evidently logical path. Lots and lots of people make irrational life choices, including in their choices of mates – of either gender. Some of those choices cause their other loved ones to reject them, abandon them, reprove them, but the pull of those choices is very strong.

Sexual behavior in itself binds. it may bind with a different dynamic and different physiological and psychological triggers for males vs. females, but it binds nevertheless.
 
So you are not a PhD. and you won’t reveal your studies which may have given you some credibility as far as some homosexual behavior may be learned. You are also not a doctor who has researched DNA or genetic possibilities for homosexuality.

Homosexuality has been around for centuries, often cited back to the Roman Ages. Then as now it seemed more social accepted, so more people experimented, much has we see today; however, there are just to be many things that point to the fact that many homosexuals are born the way they are. There are always going to be a small amount that choose the lifestyle, like people do drugs, to fit in or escape, but the vast majority are born that way.

My sister had a very close friend who was gay and I met many homosexual men at that time… Trust me when I tell you none of them would chose to be so unaccepted, abandoned, so damned to hell by family, by choice. No one would ever want that kind of life. It was who they were down to the core, every bit like I was born straight.
What science supports your theory …that its in their DNA ?
 
So you are not a PhD. and you won’t reveal your studies which may have given you some credibility as far as some homosexual behavior may be learned. You are also not a doctor who has researched DNA or genetic possibilities for homosexuality.

Homosexuality has been around for centuries, often cited back to the Roman Ages. Then as now it seemed more social accepted, so more people experimented, much has we see today; however, there are just to be many things that point to the fact that many homosexuals are born the way they are. There are always going to be a small amount that choose the lifestyle, like people do drugs, to fit in or escape, but the vast majority are born that way.

My sister had a very close friend who was gay and I met many homosexual men at that time… Trust me when I tell you none of them would chose to be so unaccepted, abandoned, so damned to hell by family, by choice. No one would ever want that kind of life. It was who they were down to the core, every bit like I was born straight.
Shelby Sun, there have been many studies attempting to isolate a ‘gay gene’ or to determine what characteristics indicate the future as a homosexual as well as enviornmental or social triggers that impact some individuals. There has been NOTHING conclusive or even strongly supporting a genetic or inborn homosexuality.

Sexuality, sexual behavior is a continuum. Most people go through various stages in life. Remember back to your childhood when the opposite sex was repulsive, disgusting, even frightening? Little girls have VERY strong same sex friendships and often announce they are going to marry their friend or at least not marry a man. Little boys have and EWWWWW response to little girls. Then puberty hits and most become attracted to the opposite sex, some seem to be rather asexual, others are confused with feelings of attraction toward the same sex. But this is not something determined at birth, like being born female.

There are MANY instances of “situational” homosexuality. In certain Islamic areas, it is VERY common for young boys to be used sexually as women are off limits until marriage. Of course we all know of jail, long journeys aboard ships and other situations where the opposite sex was not available. Further certain cultures such as ancient Greece fostered male/male sex for what was seen as a mentoring and friendship but the men were heterosexual and wives were for family/procreation.

And no I dont think that anyone chooses to be homosexual or heterosexual the way I choose a new pair of running shoes. But certain stimuli, environments, and social pressure will be very influential.

In my own experience with very close friendships with homosexuals (mostly males) only one of them said he never had an attraction to females. The rest had male/female relationships, even to the point of lengthy marriages and children but later rejecting their traditional life for a male lover. Oh and for most of them the pleasure was fleeting and the devastating impact on everyone involved lasted much longer.

Lisa
 
So you are not a PhD. and you won’t reveal your studies which may have given you some credibility as far as some homosexual behavior may be learned. You are also not a doctor who has researched DNA or genetic possibilities for homosexuality.

Homosexuality has been around for centuries, often cited back to the Roman Ages. Then as now it seemed more social accepted, so more people experimented, much has we see today; however, there are just to be many things that point to the fact that many homosexuals are born the way they are. There are always going to be a small amount that choose the lifestyle, like people do drugs, to fit in or escape, but the vast majority are born that way.

My sister had a very close friend who was gay and I met many homosexual men at that time… Trust me when I tell you none of them would chose to be so unaccepted, abandoned, so damned to hell by family, by choice. No one would ever want that kind of life. It was who they were down to the core, every bit like I was born straight.
Shelby,

This information, as to your sister had close friends, those you met is emperical information from which you can only conclude what you knew from what you experienced. This does not translate to an understanding of the situation at large and does not allow anyone to conclude that anyone is born anyway.

The Catholic Medical Association differs with your opinion…

catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/ho0039.html
If same-sex attraction were genetically determined, then one would expect identical twins to be identical in their sexual attractions. There are, however, numerous reports of identical twins who are not identical in their sexual attractions. (Bailey 1991: Eckert 1986; Friedman 1976; Green 1974; Heston 1968; McConaghy 1980; Rainer 1960; Zuger 1976) Case histories frequently reveal environmental factors which account for the development of different sexual attraction patterns in genetically identical children, supporting the theory that same-sex attraction is a product of the interplay of a variety of environmental factors. (Parker 1964)
It is, therefore, probably wise to avoid wherever possible using the words “homosexual” and “heterosexual” as nouns since such usage implies a fixed state and an equivalence between the natural state of man and woman as created by God and persons experiencing same sex attractions or behaviors.
Throw this information into the hopper…

catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0003.html
Judaism’s Sexual Revolution: Why Judaism Rejected HomosexualityDENNIS PRAGER
When Judaism demanded that all sexual activity be channeled into marriage, it changed the world. The Torah’s prohibition of non-marital sex quite simply made the creation of Western civilization possible
Judaism changed all this. It rendered the “gender of the object” very “morally problematic”; it declared that no one is “interchangeable” sexually. And as a result, it ensured that sex would in fact be “fundamentally interaction” and not simply “a doing of something to someone”.
See what Dr. Cummings says…

thenewamerican.com/culture/item/11640-former-apa-president-says-homosexuals-can-change
And it passed the Council of Representatives. And that was the first issue that came up. I also said with that, that the APA, if it passes this resolution, will also vote to continue research that demonstrates whatever the research demonstrates. Unbiased, open research. It was never done.
During this time at the top of APA, Cummings said, the headshrinkers’ group adopted the Leona Tyler Principle, which mandated scientific proof for the organization’s public positions. That principle was “paramount,” he said.
Cummings said the APA “abided by the Leona Tyler principle. All of the sudden things began to change as things became more political than scientific” and the principle “disappeared.” “The principle was never withdrawn,” he said, yet it is nowhere to be found in the “annals” of the APA and “was absolutely forgotten” by the mid 1990s. Politics rule science at APA, he said, with its members “cherrypicking results” to fit their leftist political ideas. A search of the terms “leona tyler” at the APA website does not return results.
He said the “gay rights movement sort of captured the APA.”
as well as this…

lifesitenews.com/news/former-president-of-apa-says-organization-controlled-by-gay-rights-movement/
Former president of APA says organization controlled by ‘gay rights’ movement
June 6, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A former president of the American Psychological Association (APA), who also introduced the motion to declassify homosexuality as a mental illness in 1975, says that the APA has been taken over by “ultraliberals” beholden to the “gay rights movement,” who refuse to allow an open debate on reparative therapy for homosexuality.
Your experience does not equate to what is known…
 
No I don’t agree with you nor did I say female sexual response is DEPENDENT on emotions. Nor do I think women have "an intense NEED for sex like guys." There is a huge difference between the sexes and it’s not limited to indoor vs outdoor plumbing. Thus I think that male and female homosexuality are different in both cause and intensity. When women have sex a “bonding” chemical is stimulated in the brain. Thus it is harder for females to have casual sex without emotional upheaval. Our brains are different as any man can tell you.

BTW people can become sexually stimulated by a variety of bizarre sights and activities as any resident in an emergency room can tell you. One of my high school buddies became a forensic specialist and said there are people who have sex with dead animals. Perversion isn’t limited to one sex or the other. I can’t believe anyone paid for a study regarding women and monkeys. Probably another waste of our tax dollars.

Lisa
For starters no one NEEDS sex! Guys desire it because it is quite often the only way we feel respected / loved by a woman. I don’t think that is out of necessity and women could get more creative than sex but that is how society is. When a girl I date cooks a nice dinner for me that’s probably more powerful than sex. As they say, “the way to a man’s heart is through his stomach.” I bet the misogyny police are going to come after me for saying that though but I’ll take a good meal over sex any day.

Umm…just so you know guys get a HUGE shot of oxytocin during sex too. Arousal is different in men and women but the sex makes both men and women bond. Women are less likely to have casual sex because 1) fear of pregnancy which overrides desire 2) it is harder for them to get aroused in the first place. Birth control has changed that and now than many women see sex as power they get off on feeling powerful and being able to conquer the mighty male.

I would like to have this convo with you again in 10 years. My guess is it is the men that will be wondering where the emotion went.
 
For starters no one NEEDS sex! Guys desire it because it is quite often the only way we feel respected / loved by a woman. I don’t think that is out of necessity and women could get more creative than sex but that is how society is. When a girl I date cooks a nice dinner for me that’s probably more powerful than sex. As they say, “the way to a man’s heart is through his stomach.” I bet the misogyny police are going to come after me for saying that though but I’ll take a good meal over sex any day.

Umm…just so you know guys get a HUGE shot of oxytocin during sex too. Arousal is different in men and women but the sex makes both men and women bond. Women are less likely to have casual sex because 1) fear of pregnancy which overrides desire 2) it is harder for them to get aroused in the first place. Birth control has changed that and now than many women see sex as power they get off on feeling powerful and being able to conquer the mighty male.

I would like to have this convo with you again in 10 years. My guess is it is the men that will be wondering where the emotion went.
I guess I still do not understand your point. We are genetically hardwired differently. Yes men get oxytocin from sex but they do not get the ‘bonding’ feeling in the same way as women. Your homonal reaction and response is different. To bring this back to the thread, male homosexuals tend to promiscuity, even those in committed and longterm partnerships. I got to know a homosexual pair, one of whom was a psychiatrist who talked to me at length about this issue. He said for men sex can be bonding but sex is also simply a physical release…like a good meal perhaps? In the male homosexual culture this was one of the reasons AIDS spread so swiftly. “Patient Zero” for example was responsible for literally thousands of cases of AIDS as he was a flight attendent who engaged in a lot of casual bathhouse sex. Read some of the books about this culture particularly before the time that AIDS transmission was understood (The Band Played On is outstanding and indepth). Back to my psychiatrist friend, he said that many homosexuals continued to engage in casual sex even after setting up housekeeping or even getting married. You do NOT see this behavior among Lesbians at even close to the same rate.

As to fear of pregnancy, are you kidding? Birth control is available EVERYWHERE, and particularly at colleges where the hook up culture is promulgated. This is not 1952! I think you need to realize that women don’t do the casual sex thing because that is not the way we are made. Yes there are promiscuous women and I suspect it’s more an enjoyment of power or need to feel “loved.” But from the beginning of time women have been the ones putting the brakes on sexual libertinism.

Oh and it is NOT harder for women to get aroused. They are not so visual as are men but with the right stimuli, the response is as instant as in males and also they can achieve orgasm just as speedily if not more so.

Lisa
 
So you are not a PhD. and you won’t reveal your studies which may have given you some credibility as far as some homosexual behavior may be learned. You are also not a doctor who has researched DNA or genetic possibilities for homosexuality.
Yes, of course I have a Ph.D and a post doctorate to boot. You must trust me as a fellow Catholic that what I’m saying is true. For us to lie is a sin which I avoid like a plague.
 
Coming late to the discussion so apologize for not reading every post. You make an EXCELLENT point here and one that comports with my experience with some homosexuals who were very candid with me about their porn habits. As you noted straight porn has very graphic images of sexually aroused males and the focus of the porn is very much on the male rather than the female for obvious reasons (outdoor plumbing so to speak). There is also the fantasy of having an experience with a straight man…converting him as it were over to the dark side.

I do agree with your OP regarding some homosexuality being learned or patterned into individuals due to particular experiences. Like fetishes or rituals or sadly attrraction to youngsters, once the brain is patterned to become aroused by specific stimuli, it doesn’t change that easily. Pattern a young man to be stimulated by images of males and you can see where that road could lead.

I am curious, as psychologist, do you agree with the theory that female sexuality is far more changable than male sexuality? My belief and that of a Rabbi who has weighed in on the subject is that females can move back and forth more easily than males, although I have certainly seen males who have engaged in both hetero and homosexuality.

Lisa
For females it is certainly far more flexibly, for men sadly it seems more hard-wired.
The Church, it seems, caters too much to the social norms as presented from within psychology and psychiatry. The CCC is not infallible as some would like to believe. Mother Church would be wise to stick with theology, and stay away from ‘science.’ Mixing science and theology is a bad combination.
And you as a lay person would be better getting your head out of theology and just read the Catechism
Yes …its a diversion from God’s norms…

Satan & his angels took down Sodom & Gomorrah. God doesn’t create people as innately homosexual. If he did, he wouldn’t/couldn’t of destroyed them for being Sodomites …and Christ wouldn’t of taught that people who practice such sin won’t inherit the Kingdom.
See Ezekiel on why God destroyed Sodom.
Psychologists are well aware that alcohol leads to disinhibition. Homosexual attractions were probably repressed in those individuals.
Or it hinders their ability to reason to the point where they act like randy animals?
Yes. …its learned behavior. Hollywood & TV flaunt it in half their storylines in last 20 yrs …and addicted many to this habitual sin. Now, they try to tell us it’s normal and to let children explore with SSA’s.

That’s Satan at work …thru his Hollywood / sex addict disciples…who also promote violence in their demonic workproduct, and are teaching the young in society to become homicidal semi-automatic attackmen/ murders.
You don’t seem to understand the difference between God’s active and passive wills.
Why the dichotomy? Can’t we be both spiritual and sexual beings?
Yes, indeed man is unique in his a hylomorphic nature
That is because as a society we don’t scold women for getting with other women. In fact, some guys are attracted to that and encourage women to do it. If a guy does it however he pays a heavy price and will be tormented until the day he dies. Social isolation will definitely make a guy think twice.

Also I think I know what studies you are referring to and they have been largely debunked after the New York Times ran away with them. They also showed women are aroused by monkey doing it. Clearly, I don’t think women are more prone to beastiality.
Not those studies
What science supports your theory …that its in their DNA ?
Or they just don’t know
 
Why the dichotomy? Can’t we be both spiritual and sexual beings?
Ask that question to the field of psychology and the media at large who contend that we are only sexual beings. I contend that we are spiritual beings, fist and foremost.
 
In a secualr society? Society of course…in a religious society the predominant religion does I suppose…thankfully we do not live in a religiously dominated society…but a secular one.
By that logic, were Quakers being immoral when opposing slavery in the 1800s? After all, secular society had determined that chattel slavery was perfectly moral.
 
Shelby Sun, there have been many studies attempting to isolate a ‘gay gene’ or to determine what characteristics indicate the future as a homosexual as well as enviornmental or social triggers that impact some individuals. There has been NOTHING conclusive or even strongly supporting a genetic or inborn homosexuality.

Sexuality, sexual behavior is a continuum. Most people go through various stages in life. Remember back to your childhood when the opposite sex was repulsive, disgusting, even frightening? Little girls have VERY strong same sex friendships and often announce they are going to marry their friend or at least not marry a man. Little boys have and EWWWWW response to little girls. Then puberty hits and most become attracted to the opposite sex, some seem to be rather asexual, others are confused with feelings of attraction toward the same sex. But this is not something determined at birth, like being born female.

There are MANY instances of “situational” homosexuality. In certain Islamic areas, it is VERY common for young boys to be used sexually as women are off limits until marriage. Of course we all know of jail, long journeys aboard ships and other situations where the opposite sex was not available. Further certain cultures such as ancient Greece fostered male/male sex for what was seen as a mentoring and friendship but the men were heterosexual and wives were for family/procreation.

And no I dont think that anyone chooses to be homosexual or heterosexual the way I choose a new pair of running shoes. But certain stimuli, environments, and social pressure will be very influential.

In my own experience with very close friendships with homosexuals (mostly males) only one of them said he never had an attraction to females. The rest had male/female relationships, even to the point of lengthy marriages and children but later rejecting their traditional life for a male lover. Oh and for most of them the pleasure was fleeting and the devastating impact on everyone involved lasted much longer.

Lisa
There is no conclusive evidence for any cause.

That’s because as small children they have no idea what sex or marriage is, you could have puberty activating things that were already in place, but not yet active.

I can only assume you are talking about Afghanistan.

That is an assumption with no serious evidence to support it.

Have you ever considered that they had marriages because they tried to be straight? I know one who was courting a woman, but broke it off because he felt it was cruel and unfair to her to marry her because he could never truly love her.
For all the nay sayers that homosexuality is not leared, please read post #54 from the following link:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=768247&page=4
There is very little evidence to support your idea in that post.
 
There is no conclusive evidence for any cause.

That’s because as small children they have no idea what sex or marriage is, you could have puberty activating things that were already in place, but not yet active.

I can only assume you are talking about Afghanistan.

That is an assumption with no serious evidence to support it.

Have you ever considered that they had marriages because they tried to be straight? I know one who was courting a woman, but broke it off because he felt it was cruel and unfair to her to marry her because he could never truly love her.

There is very little evidence to support your idea in that post.
Dakota,

The notion that you fall in love and get married is relatively new as you know…people used to get married and then fall in love…
 
When did I say “fall in love” or otherwise hint at eros?
Dakota,

You inferred that the ability to marry was dependent on a preconcieved notion of the ability to love someone…
Have you ever considered that they had **marriages **because they tried to be straight? I know one who was courting a woman, but broke it off because he felt it was cruel and unfair to her to marry her because he could never truly love her.
 
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