Homosexuality takes Congress by storm

[Fitswimmer]

What exactly is the point of being Catholic, if you are not willing to believe fully in what the Church teaches? As much as you’d like to make light of it, it’s clear that the homosexual agenda is to make the living out of the homosexual lifestyle socially acceptable. To believe that allowing this to happen is in some way "loving and tolerant’ is foolish. Truly loving these people would include firmly stating that the homosexual lifestyle is sinful and counter to God’s plan. I’ve known enough homosexual people to have concluded that they are, generally, very generous and compassionate people who also have severe drug and alcohol problems and other compulsive, destructive behavioral disorders. In short, they were not “happy”. Living out the homosexual lifestyle is not going to make them happy. We, as Catholics know that, as will all sin, it will only bring them more unhappiness and lead them further away from God.

So based on your anecdotal experience, you’re willing to assert that homosexuals are generally drug and alcohol abusers? Good grief, that’s the same attitude that leads people to believe that generally priests are molesters because they saw a bunch of them on the news!!

I’m not ready to assume that because the only drug abusers and alcoholics that I have ever known are heterosexual, that “generally” heterosexuals are unhappy and engage in destructive behaviors.

 

[Dtmccameron]

So based on your anecdotal experience,** you’re willing to assert that homosexuals are generally drug and alcohol abusers?** Good grief, that’s the same attitude that leads people to believe that generally priests are molesters because they saw a bunch of them on the news!!

I’m not ready to assume that because the only drug abusers and alcoholics that I have ever known are heterosexual, that “generally” heterosexuals are unhappy and engage in destructive behaviors.

No, I think he was saying that the one’s he knew were

Which isn’t to say that drug abuse and homosexuality aren’t closely tied.

Actually, destructive behavior is a human trait, regardless of sexual orientation. By very virtue disorderd act that is homosexual activity, homosexuals would be engaging in self destructive behavior every time they, ah, well…

 

[Fitswimmer]

No, I think he was saying that the one’s he knew were

Which isn’t to say that drug abuse and homosexuality aren’t closely tied.

Actually, destructive behavior is a human trait, regardless of sexual orientation. By very virtue disorderd act that is homosexual activity, homosexuals would be engaging in self destructive behavior every time they, ah, well…

Good grief, I can’t believe how ready everyone here is to believe the worst about us. We’re drug abusers, we’re alcoholics, we’re child abusers and on top of that-we’re all desperately unhappy.

Sorry to disappoint you, but my friends and I aren’t unhappy, and other than the occasional glass of wine or pretty drink with an umbrella in it-none of us are alcoholics. As far as drugs-I’ve never seen any in my nearly 30 years in the community.

If anything people like me who aren’t active would be the most likely to be unhappy and engage in those behaviors because we’re the ones who end up alone. Again, sorry to disappoint, but it just isn’t true. My gay friends are very accepting of my choice not to be active and are very supportive of me. They’re more tolerant of my religious objections to the activity than the religious folks are of my homosexuality.

 

[nannygirl]

As much as everyone protests that they don’t advocate violence against gays, the attitude that gays are disordered whether or not they are active does contribute to it. It makes them lesser beings who don’t deserve to be treated the same way as others. Gays are the enemy, they “aren’t like us”. All these messages repeated over and over create a climate where it’s ok to beat up a gay person, or it’s ok to harass them because “they aren’t like us anyway” so they don’t matter.

From the National Crime Victims website:

And from our Holy Father:

I’ve never considered homosexuals “the enemy”, but I think that those who promote homosexual acts are not acting in a loving way. If someone was encouraging me to engage in behavior that could kill my body and soul, I wouldn’t think they were my friend.
If a person is homosexual, and they aren’t acting in a disordered way, then I would probably never know they were homosexual. I wouldn’t even think about it. If I were a single woman who remained celibate- same thing. I don’t make it a point to tell people I’m heterosexual. There are some things we don’t need to know.

 

[Eden]

One should not deny truth under the pretext of love. The Catechism clearly states that the homosexual inclination is objectively disordered. To pretend that it is otherwise is doing homosexuals no favors.

**2357 **Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

**2358 **The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

**2359 **Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

As Catholics, we must support homosexuals with their call to chastity. To encourage homosexual unions and other homosexual activity is to encourage a violation against the truth of the natural law, which exists as an entity, existing outside of the human mind. It is not a relative concept, but an eternal truth.

In the same way, we should object vociferously to attempts by homosexual groups to indoctrinate children with the lie that homosexual unions and homosexual intercourse are anything but violations of the natural law. If children are taught about homosexuals, they should not be taught that Heather has two mommies, but that Heather is called to celibacy.

I also saw that I was referred to as “he”. I am a “she”. And finally, the homosexual men that I have known over the years, who have been open enough to discuss their personal lives, were leading destructive lives involving substance abuse and unsafe, serial sexual encounters. They were not living lives of contentment which I have seen amongst the rest of my social contacts who have settled into married, family life.

 

[Pong]

I’m sure you’re aware that “bloody” is offensive.

I’m sorry you are offended by what is, in my country, quite a common term.

Sarcasm adds nothing to your comment.

Oh, but it does. You made a huge assumption and I called you out on it. That’s the danger about jumping to conclusions; oftentimes you’ll find them faulty.

Children at 5 do not have a sexual identity.

Pardon? They do; however it isn’t fully developed.

Other than for indoctrination purposes, there is no reason to prey on children this young and thrust the issue of same-sex attraction on them.

Which means that the Church should remain silent on the issue as well. It is, afterall, indoctrination, as you put it.

Johnny may grow up to be a porn star or an abortionist, too.

Sorry, not really sure what an “abortionist” is. If you mean a doctor that performs abortions, then you should have said so.

Shall provide the children with books on pornography and take them to an abortion clinic to learn how to abort a baby so they can relate to Johnny in the future, too?

Do you know what makes a good analogy? It must follow the original premise, for one thing. I pointed out that children from various backgrounds and families would be put together and would necessarily need guidance on how to treat one another. You attempted to draw some parallel between little Johnny’s parent figures and his future career.

It is more important that a child learn to read fluently and write at a competent level than that they spend time being indoctrinated with the homosexual agenda.

No one is being “indoctrinated with the homosexual agenda.” Do you honestly belive that there is some sort of grand conspiracy engineered by the homosexual community to infilltrate our school system and take over the minds of children? If you do, then I am definitely wasting my time. First off, the homosexual community is not that cohesive. Secondly, I very much doubt that the straight female techer in rural Iowa is involved in this nefarrious plot. And lastly, I don’t understand what is so difficult to understand about the dynamics of a classroom: the children do not to schoolwork in a completely silent environment for six or seven hours a day. Part of the point of school is for children to learn to interact with one another and develop social skills that are critical in becoming a functioning adult. Sadly, many children don’t develop these skills for one reason or another, and they go out and beat people like Matthew Shepard and tie him to a fence because somewhere along the line, the message that homosexuality is an abomination got through without the part about “loving the sinner.”

This is not what schools should be concerning themselves with.

Oh no? Do you really want to live in a world filled with adults whose parents provided no guidance to them growig up and whose teachers were silenced out of it for fear that someone’s religious feelings would be hurt?

Why do any viewpoints have to be heard on homosexuality?

I’ve already explained this to you twice now; I shant waste my time doing it again.

And finally, the homosexual men that I have known over the years, who have been open enough to discuss their personal lives, were leading destructive lives involving substance abuse and unsafe, serial sexual encounters. They were not living lives of contentment which I have seen amongst the rest of my social contacts who have settled into married, family life.

So that naturally means that all the rest are as well. I guess after these three pages I’ve figured out that there’s really no point in trying to have a reasonable discussion with people like you; all it does is create a lot of bother for those of us who use reason instead of emotion and anecdotal fluff.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Homosexuality takes Congress by storm

The two openly homosexual members of the U.S. House of Representatives have recruited 50 of their colleagues to officially join them in promoting the homosexual agenda in Congress.

Democrats Barney Frank of Massachusetts and Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin are the only open homosexuals serving in Congress. They have joined with Republicans Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida and Christopher Shays of Connecticut, and 50 other Democrats to create the House Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Caucus. Peter LaBarbera, president of Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, says it is a sad day when Congress enshrines official promotion of sexual immorality.

more…

If the government is going to allow this why not make robbing a bank legal!!! It certainly is alot more moral than this! It’s just riddiculus! When will the Pope adress congress and not the president???

**Father, I feel the need to apologize to you
for our country. We have failed to uphold
your will. We have failed to live by the words
our country was founded on “One Nation Under God”.
We, as christians allow too many things to happen
without fighting for our rights. Please forgive us
for driving more nails into the hands of your precious son.
AMEN

By Pyropam**

 

[Mimi]

Please don’t swear at me.

As a citizen of this country, which you are apparently not (given your use of the term “bloody” which is not an American term), we have a right to make our concerns heard. My taxes pay for these books that are thrust upon our children. Our schools should spend more time teaching our children to read and write properly and less public money on indoctrinating children with the homosexual agenda. Have you seen the literacy rates of this nation? “Public education” is paid for by all citizens. We have a voice in how our money is spent. Children in Kindergarten don’t fully understand how babies are made. Why on earth do they need to know that John doesn’t like Mary, he likes George? Kindergarten used to be a place to learn ABCs and how to use scissors and play with clay.

If you are fed up with the socialism of the public schools (government run, tax-funded, i.e., grtf) – consider joining the Alliance for the Separation of School and State.
schoolandstate.org/home.htm

The govt. should not be involved in setting the educational agenda for our children. This is how Hitler got control of children’s minds and created the Hitler Youth – I’m NOT saying our govt. is doing exactly the same thing! However, our children are being used as guinea pigs again and again for every new fangled educational idea that comes along (i.e., New Math & Whole Language to name 2; oh yes, let’s not forget about Outcome Based Ed. and NCLB).

Home schooling is not that hard with younger kids, and private schools should be supported! It gets harder & harder to make ends meet, but parents who really want to take charge of their children’s education do find a way. Relatives can help. It’s sad the way our Catholic elem. schools are closing around the country.

Mimi
veteran hmschl mom

Please visit schoolandstate.org/home.htm. PM me & let’s talk.

 

[Eden]

I’m sorry you are offended by what is, in my country, quite a common term.

Would you really be proud to speak like that in front of the elderly or children?

Pardon? They do; however it isn’t fully developed.

Sexuality is latent in childhood, not only psychologically, but physically. Children in elementary school and younger are neither mentally equipped, nor physically equipped for sexuality. The mere suggestion of it on your part is disturbing. They don’t need to learn about homosexuality in Kindergarten. Leave it to the parents to decide how they want to introduce social issues like this.

Which means that the Church should remain silent on the issue as well. It is, afterall, indoctrination, as you put it.

The Church has not been silent on any moral issue for 2,000 years. That’s wishful thinking if you expect the Church to go silent for the next 2,000 on *any *issue of immorality, including homosexual activity.

Sorry, not really sure what an “abortionist” is. If you mean a doctor that performs abortions, then you should have said so.

Do you not have a dictionary handy?

Try this one:

answers.com/topic/abortionist?cat=health

Or this one:

yourdictionary.com/abortionist

Or even this one:

google.com/search?hl=en&pwst=1&defl=en&q=define:abortionist&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

Do you know what makes a good analogy? It must follow the original premise, for one thing. I pointed out that children from various backgrounds and families would be put together and would necessarily need guidance on how to treat one another. You attempted to draw some parallel between little Johnny’s parent figures and his future career.

Johnny may grow up to be a porn star or an abortionist. According to your logic, we can begin to teach children not to be judgmental of other people’s lifestyle choices if we teach them sympathy training in Kindergarten. It was clear that I was referring to Johnny’s potential adult lifestyle as a porn star or abortionist as an entirely inappropriate subject for a five-year-old, as is the fact that Johnny may grow up to live a homosexual lifestyle.

No one is being “indoctrinated with the homosexual agenda.” Do you honestly belive that there is some sort of grand conspiracy engineered by the homosexual community to infilltrate our school system and take over the minds of children?

Not according to the author of **After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90’s, **specifically:

“As a summary of methods to manipulate and control opinion, this book is an example of how to achieve a goal (public opinion modification), without recourse to fact, reason, or fair play. A propagandists dream, it is best summed up in two of its own quotes “Thus propagandistic advertising can depict all opponents of the gay movement as homophobic bigots who are ‘not Christian’ and the propaganda can further show them as being criticized, hated and shunned”… “Our effect is achieved without reference to facts, logic or proof… the person’s beliefs can be altered whether he is conscious of the attack or not” (p. 152-153) Answers questions as to how a group of less then 2% of the population, can attain political and media clout completely out of proportion to their size or condition.”

amazon.com/After-Ball-America-Conquer-Hatred/dp/0452264987/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213854910&sr=8-1

Are you referring to this handbook, yourself? I’d think so, given your comments to me so far.

And, yes, you *are *wasting your time if you think I am going to be convinced that any place other than the Catholic Church holds the truth on the issue of homosexuality.
**
**

Sadly, many children don’t develop these skills for one reason or another, and they go out and beat people like Matthew Shepard and tie him to a fence because somewhere along the line, the message that homosexuality is an abomination got through without the part about “loving the sinner.”

The reason that the Matthew Shepard case is so infamous, is that it is so rare. Crimes against women and children across the world are far more common.

Oh no? Do you really want to live in a world filled with adults whose parents provided no guidance to them growig up and whose teachers were silenced out of it for fear that someone’s religious feelings would be hurt?

Why are you assuming parents “provide no guidance” on social issues, or that they don’t have the right to make those decisions?

I’ve already explained this to you twice now; I shant waste my time doing it again.

Yes, it would be a waste of time. Full disclosure, you’re not going to convince me that the Catholic teaching on homosexual activity is wrong… ever.

So that naturally means that all the rest are as well. I guess after these three pages I’ve figured out that there’s really no point in trying to have a reasonable discussion with people like you; all it does is create a lot of bother for those of us who use reason instead of emotion and anecdotal fluff.

Again, I agree. You really shouldn’t bother with people like me. I’m not changing. You’re not changing. The Catholic Church’s position on homosexual activity is based on reason and the natural law. It’s also not changing.

 

[Eden]

If you are fed up with the socialism of the public schools (government run, tax-funded, i.e., grtf) – consider joining the Alliance for the Separation of School and State.
schoolandstate.org/home.htm

The govt. should not be involved in setting the educational agenda for our children. This is how Hitler got control of children’s minds and created the Hitler Youth – I’m NOT saying our govt. is doing exactly the same thing! However, our children are being used as guinea pigs again and again for every new fangled educational idea that comes along (i.e., New Math & Whole Language to name 2; oh yes, let’s not forget about Outcome Based Ed. and NCLB).

Home schooling is not that hard with younger kids, and private schools should be supported! It gets harder & harder to make ends meet, but parents who really want to take charge of their children’s education do find a way. Relatives can help. It’s sad the way our Catholic elem. schools are closing around the country.

Mimi
veteran hmschl mom

Please visit schoolandstate.org/home.htm. PM me & let’s talk.

Wow. That website is a wonderful resource. The link didn’t work, but I found:

schoolandstate.org/home.htm

Thank you so much for introducing me to it. I completely agree with you and for these reasons I, and many families that we know, do homeschool.

 

[Eden]

It’s timely, that I found this on another thread:

In its fiscal year 2007, the NEA spent $80.5 million — more than 20 percent of its entire budget — on “contributions, gifts and grants” that largely funded left-wing and non-education-related causes, including drives to raise the minimum wage and organizations promoting radical social issues. As a Wall Street Journal editorial noted, the union’s financial disclosure forms “expose the union as a honey pot for left-wing political causes that have nothing to do with teachers, much less students.”

All the rest is here:

teachersunionexposed.com/politicalpower_money.cfm

The link above is originally from this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=225143

 

[Fitswimmer]

If you’re that concerned about what your children are being taught in public schools, then do what my parents did and countless of other parents across the country are doing-send them to Catholic school or homeschool them.

Of course, you will still have to pay for the public schools in your taxes, but we all have to pay for things in our taxes that we disagree with. Vote for candidates that support vouchers, maybe that will come through someday.

Education was important enough to my parents that they made the sacrifice to pay Catholic school tuition. Dad worked 2 jobs and Mom worked during the hours I was in school. Sadly, today too many parents don’t seem to feel that way. One of our local Catholic schools closed this year due to lack of enrollment.

 

[Eden]

If you’re that concerned about what your children are being taught in public schools, then do what my parents did and countless of other parents across the country are doing-send them to Catholic school or homeschool them.

If this is addressed to me, I’ve stated several times on this thread that I do homeschool and I know many other families that do. Not all children have the luxury of living in homes in which homeschooling or private education are possible. If the public schools don’t want me to voice my objections to what they are teaching, they can refund my tax dollars. And, unfortunately, many “Catholic” schools today are not teaching the faith as they should. Relativism has crept into even this once safe haven of moral education.

 

[Fitswimmer]

If this is addressed to me, I’ve stated several times on this thread that I do homeschool and I know many other families that do. Not all children have the luxury of living in homes in which homeschooling or private education are possible. If the public schools don’t want me to voice my objections to what they are teaching, they can refund my tax dollars. And, unfortunately, many “Catholic” schools today are not teaching the faith as they should. Relativism has crept into even this once safe haven of moral education.

Then you’re doing exactly what you should do-you’ve put the needs of your children ahead of your own and I wasn’t talking to you.

I don’t even have children and I’ve been paying taxes for schools for years. I don’t have a problem with it. An educated person is more likely to contribute to society than to take from it. However, if I had ever had children of my own, they would not have darkened the door of a public school, and I would have done whatever was necessary to see to that. Too many parents today are more interested in the “stuff” and are willing to let the education of their children suffer.

 

[buffalo]

T

An educated person is more likely to contribute to society than to take from it. However, if I had ever had children of my own, they would not have darkened the door of a public school, and I would have done whatever was necessary to see to that. Too many parents today are more interested in the “stuff” and are willing to let the education of their children suffer.

It is interesting that Catholic giving shows the lowest incomes give the highest percentage of income to the Church. The more a Catholic makes the less as a % of income they give.

 

[Fitswimmer]

It is interesting that Catholic giving shows the lowest incomes give the highest percentage of income to the Church. The more a Catholic makes the less as a % of income they give.

I belong to a tithing parish, so we’re skewing those results.

I’ve always wondered about that too, Protestants are far more generous with their income than Catholics if you look at statistics. But I’ve also read stats that poor people in general give more of what little they have to charity. Perhaps it is because they know first hand what it is like to go without.

As far as contributing to society, my point was that a person who can read and write and at least do basic math is more likely to be able to get a job, pay taxes and live as a good citizen than someone who doesn’t even have a basic education.