Homosexuality - the facts

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Everything you answered here is puppeting what you either read out of the Bible or heard from the Vatican, there is no original thought coming from you. Don’t feel bad you fit in with typical Amercians today. Either won’t or ca’nt thint for your self. God put the brain in the human design, I wish mankind would use it more.🤷
How rude and disrespectful you are. You don’t like my post, THEN GET OVER IT. I am not going to waste my time pleasing anyone. What typical Americans think, is not the way I think. The typical American doesn’t even show up to mass each and every Sunday. Most of them don’t have a valid excuse. I only preach the faith my brother
 
When did you decide? Were you told when you were eight that you were going to burn in hell? Were you forced into therapy and treatment for things you didn’t even understand? I didn’t even know what gay was, and they were screaming at me that I was going to burn in hell for it. Who tells an eight year old they’re going to burn? That’s child abuse as far as I am concerned.

The people you seem to admire, approve of this, approve of ‘preemptive’ strikes on homosexuality in a child’s youth. I wish I knew what a normal childhood was, I really do. I didn’t have one, mine was filled with despair, sorrow and suicide attempts over something I had never even though of, until people started throwing fire and brimstone at me.
Who tells an 8 year old that they’re going to burn in hell?? My aunt and uncle. They have told me that my whole life because I am Catholic. You seem bitter my friend
 
Who tells an 8 year old that they’re going to burn in hell?? My aunt and uncle. They have told me that my whole life because I am Catholic. You seem bitter my friend
Pathia has gone through much from a severe form of reparative therapy who wrongly used abusive methods to “change” her orientation. I only believe in humane, compassionate forms of therapy and only if the individual desires such “change”. But I really believe in the kind of therapy that helps you resolve emotional issues from the past and cognitive therapy where appropriate. Her parents, with good intentions, thought this would help her, but it obviously had the wrong effect on her.
 
Who tells an 8 year old that they’re going to burn in hell?? My aunt and uncle. They have told me that my whole life because I am Catholic. You seem bitter my friend
I’m bitter because what was done to me continues to this very day to other children and I seem powerless to stop it, because no one listens to me, or believes me, or thinks what is being done is harmful to children.
 
I’m bitter because what was done to me continues to this very day to other children and I seem powerless to stop it, because no one listens to me, or believes me, or thinks what is being done is harmful to children.
I really don’t know what has happened to you, but the best advice I can give you is prayer. Pray the Rosary. I am quite sorry that people don’t believe you or listen to you. You can PM me and I will be sympathetic. I do believe prayer can help any healing process. I will keep you in my prayers.
 
Well, thank you, tobinatorstark. Never having been so honored, I can only hope that as for the rest of the readers on here, you all are clear about a few things:

I care not a whit about your religious or non- affiliation of any stripe, and I certainly am *not *intent on converts or any such thing. This is about thought, and insight, and using what God gave you as the stuff between your ears, though that is but a small manifestaion of the actual wonder of the matter. Or the beyond-the-matter, for that matter, lol! I am only advocating that people use as much concern and inquisitiveness in examining the *actual *source of their faith as they might in a scientific treasties, or in any activity requiring great accuracy and insight. Aspawloski4th is right: What place has a parrot in heaven?? As a Catholic who eventually had to abandon the Church as an avenue of instruction and discovery, I am very well aquainted with the lethargy of the OTHC&A Church in noting certain lacunae in doctrin and inclusivity regarding spiritual or mystic experiences, especially of a certain type, one which gave me an astoundingly refreshing perspective on the teachings of the Church.

And most importantly, Advaita is a discovery, a Way of Understanding, and about the farthest from a cult that I can imagine, as well as ancient. My younger sister was in the Moonie cult, so I can tell you a bit about that and other cults. In fact, my group of associates were accused by a local reporter of cultism, and someone reputed as a “cult buster” laughed off the charge, without even interviewing any of us. We were deemed as a group positive of the Love of God, and who practiced that. That is how obviously the system is not a cult. The highest possible development of any particular individual’s gifts are at the forefront of this Way, and my Mentor was given national honors in this arena of consideration. Even after his death there is a continuing scholarship for the arts, and a continuing foundation sponsoring the arts and lectureship. These were started with his personal funds. So, lets lay that to rest, thank you.

He was also consulted by such as Mother Teresa, who visited for a week, and Jesuit scholars when they were at an impasse. He was known as “Living Vedanta” by many yogis form the East, and many religious of many persuasions came to him for advice and insights. And so on and so on. So I am quite confident in my practice.

I only say all that, because really really really, I don’t care what you call yourself, or what you claim to practice on what basis. Just do it well. Do it very well. But use your God given gifts of critical thinking even as St Thomas and others like him used them. He even had the courage to call his own writings “straw!” Don’t accept conclusions, make them for yourself at the risk of failure. I refuse to give up my right to fail! And I am absolutely certain that the Loving God will not fault, but encourage any who use their Gifts! But for God’s sake, and your own, THINK, as well as believe!!! “Gnothi Seauton” was not a frivolous injunction.

If you have courage, and trust in the Goodness of God, you will not be decieved. But what if God is far greater than you have so far imagined or known?!?!?! Then practice, as my Mentor advised, whatever religion you wish, and bless them with your insight. I really feel for Pathia. But shame on any of us if we short ourselves by hiding behind scripture without looking in your own heart. We are here for but a short time only. Give yourself, perhaps to Praise, rather than fear, and trust that whatever you think of yourself, God’s Love is infinitly incalculabel, and not as your intellect, or even your faith, calculates.
 
Well, thank you, tobinatorstark. Never having been so honored, I can only hope that as for the rest of the readers on here, you all are clear about a few things:

I care not a whit about your religious or non- affiliation of any stripe, and I certainly am *not *intent on converts or any such thing. This is about thought, and insight, and using what God gave you as the stuff between your ears, though that is but a small manifestaion of the actual wonder of the matter. Or the beyond-the-matter, for that matter, lol! I am only advocating that people use as much concern and inquisitiveness in examining the *actual *source of their faith as they might in a scientific treasties, or in any activity requiring great accuracy and insight. Aspawloski4th is right: What place has a parrot in heaven?? As a Catholic who eventually had to abandon the Church as an avenue of instruction and discovery, I am very well aquainted with the lethargy of the OTHC&A Church in noting certain lacunae in doctrin and inclusivity regarding spiritual or mystic experiences, especially of a certain type, one which gave me an astoundingly refreshing perspective on the teachings of the Church.

And most importantly, Advaita is a discovery, a Way of Understanding, and about the farthest from a cult that I can imagine, as well as ancient. My younger sister was in the Moonie cult, so I can tell you a bit about that and other cults. In fact, my group of associates were accused by a local reporter of cultism, and someone reputed as a “cult buster” laughed off the charge, without even interviewing any of us. We were deemed as a group positive of the Love of God, and who practiced that. That is how obviously the system is not a cult. The highest possible development of any particular individual’s gifts are at the forefront of this Way, and my Mentor was given national honors in this arena of consideration. Even after his death there is a continuing scholarship for the arts, and a continuing foundation sponsoring the arts and lectureship. These were started with his personal funds. So, lets lay that to rest, thank you.

He was also consulted by such as Mother Teresa, who visited for a week, and Jesuit scholars when they were at an impasse. He was known as “Living Vedanta” by many yogis form the East, and many religious of many persuasions came to him for advice and insights. And so on and so on. So I am quite confident in my practice.

I only say all that, because really really really, I don’t care what you call yourself, or what you claim to practice on what basis. Just do it well. Do it very well. But use your God given gifts of critical thinking even as St Thomas and others like him used them. He even had the courage to call his own writings “straw!” Don’t accept conclusions, make them for yourself at the risk of failure. I refuse to give up my right to fail! And I am absolutely certain that the Loving God will not fault, but encourage any who use their Gifts! But for God’s sake, and your own, THINK, as well as believe!!! “Gnothi Seauton” was not a frivolous injunction.

If you have courage, and trust in the Goodness of God, you will not be decieved. But what if God is far greater than you have so far imagined or known?!?!?! Then practice, as my Mentor advised, whatever religion you wish, and bless them with your insight. I really feel for Pathia. But shame on any of us if we short ourselves by hiding behind scripture without looking in your own heart. We are here for but a short time only. Give yourself, perhaps to Praise, rather than fear, and trust that whatever you think of yourself, God’s Love is infinitly incalculabel, and not as your intellect, or even your faith, calculates.
Which all means what? There are those celibate homosexuals. One or two on here refuse to accept that they are born that way. There is absolutely no sin involved in just being homosexual. No more than there is in being lefthanded or anything else. Stop condemning people to hell just for being. If I had been raised on the notion solely of “you’re going to burn in hell” I would have walked away from such negativity and said “I’ll have you for company.” This is not the faith. Just scare tactics. It produces fear, not love of God. And even as a homosexual person I can love God as much as anyone here. If you deny that you are getting into silly semantics and judging the heart which not a single on of you are capable of doing. Scripture is quite clear time and time again that God knew us in the womb and Jesus again made reference to some of us being born the way we are. Need I spell it out, some of us are born with a homosexual orientation, some are made that way through molestation or otherwise. I have no reason to believe that God didn’t create the orientation as a way of testing our love for Him. Do you think we all created the mess ourselves? We woke up one day and decided we were going to be homosexual deliberately? That is the worst theology around. It’s practically like saying we choose our own temptations in life. We don’t. We only can choose how to respond.
 
Uhhh… I thought I was agreeing with you, Jim. My stance is that the people who are giving you a bad time are the ones hiding behind scripture. Was that no clear? I agree, there is no more choice in that than in the color of your hair. I don’t see people punishing themselves for that, or each other. They might dye it to make it look different, but that is choice as well.
 
Uhhh… I thought I was agreeing with you, Jim. My stance is that the people who are giving you a bad time are the ones hiding behind scripture. Was that no clear? I agree, there is no more choice in that than in the color of your hair. I don’t see people punishing themselves for that, or each other. They might dye it to make it look different, but that is choice as well.
Oh. My bad. I thank you for your support.
 
Which all means what? There are those celibate homosexuals. One or two on here refuse to accept that they are born that way. There is absolutely no sin involved in just being homosexual. No more than there is in being lefthanded or anything else. Stop condemning people to hell just for being. If I had been raised on the notion solely of “you’re going to burn in hell” I would have walked away from such negativity and said “I’ll have you for company.” This is not the faith. Just scare tactics. It produces fear, not love of God. And even as a homosexual person I can love God as much as anyone here. If you deny that you are getting into silly semantics and judging the heart which not a single on of you are capable of doing. Scripture is quite clear time and time again that God knew us in the womb and Jesus again made reference to some of us being born the way we are. Need I spell it out, some of us are born with a homosexual orientation, some are made that way through molestation or otherwise. I have no reason to believe that God didn’t create the orientation as a way of testing our love for Him. Do you think we all created the mess ourselves? We woke up one day and decided we were going to be homosexual deliberately? That is the worst theology around. It’s practically like saying we choose our own temptations in life. We don’t. We only can choose how to respond.
I’m glad I don’t condemn anyone to hell just for “being”
 
Cool, Jim. I’m guessing there is as much danger in the momentum of feeling that everyone is against you. I went to a lecture once and the B’nai B’rith was protesting the lecture very heatedly. On exiting the hall, I tried to explain to them that in fact, the lecturer had some good to say about their cause, I was almost in a brawl for pointing out what was, upon actallly listening, completely consistent with their stance.

Einstein said “I kow of two things that are infinite; the universe and Man’s stupidity. And I am no sure about the universe!” If we know that about ourselves, thatn maybbe we would be more careful in evaluating what we believe. Faith is wonderful, it is necessary for ordinary human conduct. But once past childhood, it is, looking at the world, useful to examin if what we believe as a necessity of growing up in a place, is actually useful or necessarily true everywhere, despite cliams.

Voltail said “There are no sects in gepmetry.” I don’t agree with much of what he said, but there is a value in that statement. Why, when we generally agree about math, what makes a car, how to use electricity, etc, are we so diverse in our more important religious life? Why do religions, many claiming to be the one true religion, and beleiveing in a God of Love, conduct such things as inquisitions, holy wars, and act in a generally devisive way? We don’t disagree that electricity works in a particular way, as far as we know. But something far more fundamental, God, we seem to have no clue agout in terms of a general world agreement. And I’m sorry, kids, if you step back and think about it, the “But mine’s is the real one and only” just doesn’t wash. God is not that cruel as to set us against each other. We do that.

And neither argue the Fall of Man card, as that is a huge misinterpretation, as are many things in the Bible. Just step back, look at a bigger context, and think about it. Not a rehash of what you were taught about it, but what it could really, actally mean. Like many other things, as your mistaking my intent, that is a story gotten backwards, too. I can only empahasise with everything at my disposal, that God is LOVE, not an anthropomorphic judgemental owner of a cosmic play thing that He created for other than the experience of community and adoration. Give yourself a break, here. Assume something better than rote belief!
 
Uhhh… I thought I was agreeing with you, Jim. My stance is that the people who are giving you a bad time are the ones hiding behind scripture. Was that no clear? I agree, there is no more choice in that than in the color of your hair. I don’t see people punishing themselves for that, or each other. They might dye it to make it look different, but that is choice as well.
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual" (1 Corinthians 2:9-13).

“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14).
 
Cool, Jim. I’m guessing there is as much danger in the momentum of feeling that everyone is against you. I went to a lecture once and the B’nai B’rith was protesting the lecture very heatedly. On exiting the hall, I tried to explain to them that in fact, the lecturer had some good to say about their cause, I was almost in a brawl for pointing out what was, upon actallly listening, completely consistent with their stance.

Einstein said “I kow of two things that are infinite; the universe and Man’s stupidity. And I am no sure about the universe!” If we know that about ourselves, thatn maybbe we would be more careful in evaluating what we believe. Faith is wonderful, it is necessary for ordinary human conduct. But once past childhood, it is, looking at the world, useful to examin if what we believe as a necessity of growing up in a place, is actually useful or necessarily true everywhere, despite cliams.

Voltail said “There are no sects in gepmetry.” I don’t agree with much of what he said, but there is a value in that statement. Why, when we generally agree about math, what makes a car, how to use electricity, etc, are we so diverse in our more important religious life? Why do religions, many claiming to be the one true religion, and beleiveing in a God of Love, conduct such things as inquisitions, holy wars, and act in a generally devisive way? We don’t disagree that electricity works in a particular way, as far as we know. But something far more fundamental, God, we seem to have no clue agout in terms of a general world agreement. And I’m sorry, kids, if you step back and think about it, the “But mine’s is the real one and only” just doesn’t wash. God is not that cruel as to set us against each other. We do that.

And neither argue the Fall of Man card, as that is a huge misinterpretation, as are many things in the Bible. Just step back, look at a bigger context, and think about it. Not a rehash of what you were taught about it, but what it could really, actally mean. Like many other things, as your mistaking my intent, that is a story gotten backwards, too. I can only empahasise with everything at my disposal, that God is LOVE, not an anthropomorphic judgemental owner of a cosmic play thing that He created for other than the experience of community and adoration. Give yourself a break, here. Assume something better than rote belief!
Nope. This is wrong. This is the: It’s OK to have a personal interpretation deception. The Magisterium of the Catholic Church has thought it through. There is no 3rd, 4th or 5th Way. There is one way.

Rote belief is wisdom and we are told in the Bible, with wisdom get understanding. We are the Body of Christ and the Catholic Church guides us. This is not a do-it-yourself-Church or make up your own answers Church or a the Church does not have the new, new answers Church. Please stop suggesting that it is.

Peace,
Ed
 
Nope. This is wrong. This is the: It’s OK to have a personal interpretation deception. The Magisterium of the Catholic Church has thought it through. There is no 3rd, 4th or 5th Way. There is one way.

Rote belief is wisdom and we are told in the Bible, with wisdom get understanding. We are the Body of Christ and the Catholic Church guides us. This is not a do-it-yourself-Church or make up your own answers Church or a the Church does not have the new, new answers Church. Please stop suggesting that it is.

Peace,
Ed
Point, set, match !!!
 
Wow! Ladibri77, Good job! Those are the exact grounds on which I question your and other interpretations on here. Thank you for doing me a service. I forgot about those.

Edwest2, Yes, I agree completly, there is one way, only. But as you said, the Magesterium has thought it through. My point exactly. So thanks to you, too. And, speaking as one who has benefited greatly from the Church, I am not suggesting that the Church is any of those things you mentioned. I was only encouraging you to use what God gave you, not to deny your basic faith. See Ladibri’s quotes. Very useful, IMO. They are keepers. Your comment BTW, sounds like you skimmed my posts for things you didn’t like, not having the patience to read them.

And Tobinatorstark, do you think this is some sort of a game, making that sort of flip and dismissive remark? Hey, I thought you had honored me by putting me on your DNR list. Sorry to see that change. OK, if you must. But I rather the previous arrangement.

Over and out. Thanks for the chats, I learned much.
 
And Tobinatorstark, do you think this is some sort of a game, making that sort of flip and dismissive remark? Hey, I thought you had honored me by putting me on your DNR list. Sorry to see that change. OK, if you must. But I rather the previous arrangement.

Over and out. Thanks for the chats, I learned much.
No, I don’t think this a game. This is just my way of telling the previous poster that he hit the nail on the head.
 
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