Homosexuality

[Lasting_faith]

All things work unto good to those who love God. With God all things are possible.

The grace of God can be with us to withstand all kinds of crosses. We just need to cooperate with the Lord.

Spot on Dorothy, spot on. That is the best answer I have seen when we talk about a gay-people. You are so blessed with the right faith that is strong, pure and above all, what God want us to have. No doubt’s, only faith.

 

[Lasting_faith]

Homosexuality is not caused by the fact that some children grow up with only one parent. If that would be the case, 50 % of us would be gay.

There is no medical explanation to homosexuality.

Homosexuality is a question that has been a big issue for a long time now. We see it as sin, but only becaues God say so. If there would be no mention in The Bible and the Scriptures it would be OK. We have a moral that is totally based upon God’s will and word. There is one “question” that once in a while pop up. Namely this: “who is crazy?” We define “crazyness” by what a person is doing. If he/she act against what we call “normal” he/she is crazy. OK, fair enough. But how do we know that those we call “crazy” are not acting normally and we are “crazy”. Well, that is a question we can have a lot fun with, but it will not solve anything. We know that if all would be gay we would not exist, so it does not apply on the question about homosexuality. There are many different theories why, and most likely they all are wrong. So we must accept that some are interested in the same gender they are. That is still not a sin. To “be” something and “do” something is as far from each other then east from west, as R.Kipling did say. Let us say that I would be gay. How many of you would see me as a person who rather would find a other forum to write in? Reckon nobody. But what if I would tell I live with an other man as “wife and husband” and be very open about it? I think the moderators would be all over me and ban me for life and a few years after my death as well. So, homosexuality is not a question, nor a issue. It is all about what we do if we are homosexual. Conclusion: God did it. He make some people homosexual because He want them to stay pure and in a state of grace. But because we also are blessed with a free will, not all make it. God love all of us equally, but He want some of us to be “special” so He created humans with a desire for the same sex for a most likely good, if not the best, reason. I might be wrong of course, but that is the best answer I can give.

So what we can we do? Love all as we love our self. That is God’s will. Let us forget about skin color, language, gender, desire, faith, political ideas, let us do God’s will and love and honor all kind of people. They are, after all, created by God. I don’t think that anyone will ever crack the “mystery” why some of us are gay, so the best we can do is to pray for them, and love them.

 

[on_the_hill]

Conclusion: God did it. He make some people homosexual because He want them to stay pure and in a state of grace.

This is a really interesting angle I haven’t thought of before. To extend it, the rationale could be ‘your vocation is to the single life, or the consecrated life.’

 

[Lasting_faith]

Yes, why not.

 

[TK421]

Hmm. The reason I ask is that, while I have known straight and gay women who have ventured into the others’ dating pools, I have rarely (if ever) seen a guy do so without considering himself bi. I don’t really know that many super-promiscuous people though, so I guess I wouldn’t know about when immorality in sexuality is taken to an extreme.

So my current strategy when discussing what my advice would be to a gay person from a Catholic standpoint, I usually say that I recommend discerning your vocation as a whole, and then, if you don’t feel called to religious life, my advice is sex-specific. I recommend girls who haven’t tried dating men to at least try it before abstaining from dating (unless they feel called to abstain), but I usually recommend that guys go straight down the dedicated singles path for the reasons stated above. Would you advise me to also recommend to gay guys to try dating women if they never have?

Maybe this is stereotypical of me, but my male friends have always told me that dating, for them, is both about personality and visual to a high degree; I’ve never known a guy who just didn’t care about the visual. However, I’ve known MANY women who can be with a guy just because he knows how to make her smile and feel at ease, regardless of physical appearance. I felt that extended to sexual orientation as well.

In addition, it’s easier to deal with female impotency than male impotency when it comes to sexual arousal, and considering the marital act is very important to most marriages, I felt that was another category to add into consideration of how I give advice.

Am I being too stereotypical?

This is an extremely muddy issue because there is such a huge amount of ideologically-charged bias over the issue in today’s world. An LGBT enthusiast is likely to do whatever it takes to downplay any possibility of an alternative lifestyle to just following their preference, and they’ll spend plenty of time convincing themselves of that as well. Unfortunately, the opposition hasn’t been any less of a problem, especially among fundamentalist Christians, that want to treat homosexuality as something that is mysteriously chosen without any inclination. They’ll acknowledge inclinations towards every other evil imaginable (like heterosexual lust), but SSA is treated like an exception to the rule. This is something that has been detrimental to opposing gay marriage, because many opponents have been blanket labeled as in the dark and clueless. And to be honest, I’m not sure opposing homosexual behavior can make too much sense unless you also consider it in light of why contraception is evil, which is something protestantism abandoned in the earlier 20th century, so it pretty much comes down to the Catholic Church being able to address this issue with complete thoroughness.

I know at least one story of a guy (he was Mormon) who liked men, but married a woman and had children with her, and only admitted in his later 40s that he had SSA. According to him, he didn’t at all find vaginal sex to be repulsive; the experience was pleasurable for him, but he didn’t have the desire towards his wife that he had towards men. So could a strongly SSA person just validly marry someone and enjoy married life in spite of their inclinations?

When you think about it, there were men & women throughout the centuries in Christian Europe that must have had SSA, and presumably not all of them ended up in religious life. This is something each individual would have to discern and I wouldn’t exempt men from it. Even though men tend to be more visual than women, they still like sex, and just on a biological level, any stimulation will work. The joy of children will also greatly reinforce the bond, and as the years go on, a person gradually becomes less and less amped for sex anyway.

 

[SMGS127]

Not to derail the thread, SIDS is sudden infant death syndrome, and to my knowledge its cause has not been determined, but being born ‘intersex’ has nothing to do with it.

I don’t think you understood my post! I was arguing that both SIDS AND intersexism were signs of original sin, not that one had anything to do with the other . Note the use of the “etc.” afterwards.

Also, we do know the causes of some cases of SIDS actually. SIDS is just an overarching term meaning any infant who dies suddenly. We do know that some infants are born without necessary glycolytic enzymes that they don’t need until X month of their life. Once that month hits, though, they die because their body can’t produce a necessary enzyme. But you are correct that we don’t always know what causes it.

This is an extremely muddy issue because there is such a huge amount of ideologically-charged bias over the issue in today’s world. An LGBT enthusiast is likely to do whatever it takes to downplay any possibility of an alternative lifestyle to just following their preference, and they’ll spend plenty of time convincing themselves of that as well. Unfortunately, the opposition hasn’t been any less of a problem, especially among fundamentalist Christians, that want to treat homosexuality as something that is mysteriously chosen without any inclination. They’ll acknowledge inclinations towards every other evil imaginable (like heterosexual lust), but SSA is treated like an exception to the rule. This is something that has been detrimental to opposing gay marriage, because many opponents have been blanket labeled as in the dark and clueless. And to be honest, I’m not sure opposing homosexual behavior can make too much sense unless you also consider it in light of why contraception is evil, which is something protestantism abandoned in the earlier 20th century, so it pretty much comes down to the Catholic Church being able to address this issue with complete thoroughness.

I know at least one story of a guy (he was Mormon) who liked men, but married a woman and had children with her, and only admitted in his later 40s that he had SSA. According to him, he didn’t at all find vaginal sex to be repulsive; the experience was pleasurable for him, but he didn’t have the desire towards his wife that he had towards men. So could a strongly SSA person just validly marry someone and enjoy married life in spite of their inclinations?

When you think about it, there were men & women throughout the centuries in Christian Europe that must have had SSA, and presumably not all of them ended up in religious life. This is something each individual would have to discern and I wouldn’t exempt men from it. Even though men tend to be more visual than women, they still like sex, and just on a biological level, any stimulation will work. The joy of children will also greatly reinforce the bond, and as the years go on, a person gradually becomes less and less amped for sex anyway.

Well, obviously you can choose to date against your sexuality; I’ve done it and been happy. I guess my question was more “do you think advice should be gender-specific on the issue?” and it sounds like your answer is no.

Do you think any person with intense SSA who had them under control would be happy in a marriage? With some of my friends, I’ve wondered whether they would be distracted from their marriage by their temptations. Though I guess that isn’t really all that different than heterosexuals being tempted while in a marriage.

 

[TK421]

While I don’t want to undermine the heavy cross that an SSA person has to bear in a modern post-Christian society, I believe a celibate heterosexual person requires significantly more prayer & effort than a celibate homosexual person. The reason is that the immense majority of the population is heterosexually inclined, whereas a small minority (believed to be around 5% or less) is SSA. In everyday life and interactions, a heterosexual person may have to deal with safeguarding themselves from falling into lust and promiscuity. Although an SSA person is just as susceptible to this, unless they make a proactive effort to seek out the gay community on the internet or in person, then they have the freedom of being essentially invisible in everyday interactions. It’s very unlikely that a man or woman that an SSA person may find attractive is an SSA person in turn. For a heterosexual person, “the heterosexual community” is everywhere around them, at all times.

So I don’t think an SSA person would be anymore tempted to infidelity than another person. I think it might actually be less tempting, but that’s a guess on my part.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

While I don’t want to undermine the heavy cross that an SSA person has to bear in a modern post-Christian society, I believe a celibate heterosexual person requires significantly more prayer & effort than a celibate homosexual person. The reason is that the immense majority of the population is heterosexually inclined, whereas a small minority (believed to be around 5% or less) is SSA. In everyday life and interactions, a heterosexual person may have to deal with safeguarding themselves from falling into lust and promiscuity. Although an SSA person is just as susceptible to this, unless they make a proactive effort to seek out the gay community on the internet or in person, then they have the freedom of being essentially invisible in everyday interactions. It’s very unlikely that a man or woman that an SSA person may find attractive is an SSA person in turn. For a heterosexual person, “the heterosexual community” is everywhere around them, at all times.

So I don’t think an SSA person would be anymore tempted to infidelity than another person. I think it might actually be less tempting, but that’s a guess on my part.

The internet has changed this, unfortunately. I don’t mean to say how (lest I be the occasion for sin to someone), but many SSA men have it very hard, in terms of temptation to sin which is enabled by the internet. It’s not just pornography anymore.

So I wouldn’t say exclusive heterosexuals have a heavier cross.

 

[TK421]

So I wouldn’t say exclusive heterosexuals have a heavier cross.

No. I think it’s harder to be homosexual than heterosexual (I don’t know this as a fact, but I know I wouldn’t volunteer myself for it. Orthodox SSA people are role models & inspirations to me.). The big obvious reason is that however much more surrounded a heterosexual person may be with temptations, they can fulfill their naturally inclined desires in marriage someday. An SSA person either has to go against the grain, or choose a celibate lifestyle. But I still think it’s easier to be celibate as a homosexual, and I think it’s easier to avoid tempting situations as a homosexual if you make an active effort to do.

 

[livingwordunity]

Do you think that homosexuality is an effect of original sin or do you think that it is the work of the devil? I’ve heard many people say they think that people are born this way. I don’t think this is so. To me that would be like saying that God imprinted something into that person that is totally contrary to His plan and design. I think that it is both from original sin and temptation from Satan. What are your thoughts?

God bless!

Same-sex attraction, although in and of itself isn’t a sin, is disordered since the male was made for the female and the female for the male. SSA is basically a temptation to sin, and all temptations to sin are because of original sin which makes us vulnerable to be tempted to sin.

 

[djames99]

Do you think that homosexuality is an effect of original sin or do you think that it is the work of the devil? I’ve heard many people say they think that people are born this way. I don’t think this is so. To me that would be like saying that God imprinted something into that person that is totally contrary to His plan and design. I think that it is both from original sin and temptation from Satan. What are your thoughts?

God bless!

Not only that, but there’s a cure which proves you 100% right on. It calls for patience and trust and a certain period where resolve will be tested. This sort of sin is nothing to the power of the Rosary.