Homosexuals and the Holy Eucharist

[Semper_Fi_1]

He could, but ? Confession is not to be used as a licence to receive and then go back to our old ways.

It involves a change of heart, it involves reforming our lives, to use Confession like this is not sincere, and maybe leaving us in a worse state than we were before.

IMO to use the Sacrament like this is a mockery, I’m not saying you implied that in your post, but just stating something. (in-case)

And Novice 1 …good post.

Confession infers graces onto the one receiving the sacrament to make their cross much more easy to bare. I’d rather see someone confess over and over if they are truly repentant than to see someone not confessing at all. At least someone confessing is trying to change. Change isn’t always immediate. The Church is a hospital for sinners.

 

[Eireann]

Confession infers graces onto the one receiving the sacrament to make their cross much more easy to bare. I’d rather see someone confess over and over if they are truly repentant than to see someone not confessing at all. At least someone confessing is trying to change. Change isn’t always immediate. The Church is a hospital for sinners.

I’m talking about people confessing **knowing too well **that they are going to go back to the same old ways, verses someone who has the **intent **to change their ways yet will fall.

I still say if the Confession wasn’t a pure intent to change then it’s wrong.

Although you fell it’s ok, I don’t, well not for me anyway, its their soul, not mine, they can do whatever they want.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

Confession infers graces onto the one receiving the sacrament to make their cross much more easy to bare. I’d rather see someone confess over and over if they are truly repentant than to see someone not confessing at all. At least someone confessing is trying to change. Change isn’t always immediate. The Church is a hospital for sinners.

Yes, a good confession requires true repentence. True repentence requires that one regrets sinning, i.e. if in the same situation again, will not do the same sin again. It involves a commitment. If the commitment is not there, the confession is not valid.

What does this mean? If a live-in is involved, the firm amendment is to rectify it immediately upon leaving the Mass. If a place of recreation is involved (bar), then a firm amendment not to go there again is necessary. If it is an illicit continuing relationship (gay, pre or extra-marital) then the commitment must be to change the relationship to one that is not sinful, immediately!

Yes, we fail, but we must be careful to approach the sacrament of reconciliation in a state that will render it valid, i.e. that we have truly accpected our behavior as sinful and repented of it, committing to God that we will not do it again.

Dan

 

[fix]

Because they live in ignorance, and often in denial.

Why is not possible for non-catholics to realize that pre-marital sex, birth control and abortions are gravely wrong? Because its not part of their worldview.

I think its often the same way with LGBT – its not a part of their worldview.

You can’t just tell someone, “what you’re doing is wrong,” if they have no basis on which to accept that judgement.

I agree that simply stating the truth will not change folks who do not want to be changed. I will quibble with you though in that the natural law is inscribed in our rational makeup. It is incorrect to say those outside the Catholic faith do not know the 10 commandments. They are written on every human heart.

It is hard for us to discern truth from error especially when to accept the truth means changing the way we live, but you spoke of committed Christians right? Is not one of the central themes to repent and change the way we live?

If we refuse to accept that we sin then how are we to repent? I do not think any academic study alone will help without the conviction by the Holy Spirit.

I agree with others that Courage is a good group to consult in these matters.

 

[fjacks]

The church believes that God created us male and female, not “gay” and “straight” and “bi-sexual” and “trans-gendered”. Therefore, we welcome all people who are seeking Christ and the transformation from sinners to saints that can only occur by the power of his grace.

When we begin to speak about homosexuality and homosexual acts we risk buying into a notion of sexuality that is reduced to sexual activity. I believe that sexuality is that God-given trait by which we can make healthy and intimate connections with ourselves, with others, and with God. These connections are not primarily genital, although they include the genital for those who are married. Outside marriage, all genital connections tend to revolve around passion rather than around reproductivity. While sexual passion (eros) is certainly not evil or sordid in and of itself, unless it includes the possibility of agape (self-giving love) it remains simply a source of self-pleasuring.

There are many people who believe that engaging in sexual activity is an essential human activity regardless of the object of one’s desires. From there it becomes a question of justice for those who think of themselves as irretrievably homosexual to engage in sexual activity. Many such individuals would like to become practicing Catholics while continuing to pursue sexual activities that are not reconcilable with the teaching of Christ and the church. Any welcoming of “homosexuals” needs to make our understanding of sexuality clear. Otherwise we are not sharing with them the truth in love.

Might we welcome practicing homosexuals in the hopes that they might come to a knowledge and practice of the truth. Yes, but very carefully so as not to mislead.

 

[sacredcello]

Yes, you need to bring it to the attention of someone in higher authority, and since you say your priest is living a chaste life in-spite of his cross, then maybe him.

Oh, ok. But, the only people who made the final round in the audition for Music Director of our church were gay men (they were the only ones qualified). And, the parish council, staff and clergy are aware that he is gay. I don’t believe it is lawful to discriminate against gays in the hiring of a layperson for a staff position. I also know that he has been encouraged by the staff to lead the choir in a weekly reflection on the Gospel.

Recently, I went to the sacrament of reconciliation to confess that I felt judgement in my heart toward this person. The priest told me that I should pray for him, because Jesus told us to pray for our enemies – people who think differently than us could be considered our enemies. I have prayed for him. But, I am still silently witnessing him receive the Eucharist every week while his partner sings with us (his partner is a member of the schola – a staff singer).

Is this what Jesus would do?

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

I don’t believe it is lawful to discriminate against gays in the hiring of a layperson for a staff position.

Gays don’t receive this legal protection from the federal government. They want it, and some companies offer it of their own choice, but federal law does not prohibit hiring decisions based on sexual preference.

Dan

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

Is this what Jesus would do?

Jesus spoke out about sin, even when not asked. Do not keep silent, continue to speak. If what He said was not understood or accepted, He would say it again, He would say it differently, He would offer parables. It is possible to do this in a kind and loving, but persistent way.

Dan

 

[sacredcello]

The church believes that God created us male and female, not “gay” and “straight” and “bi-sexual” and “trans-gendered”. Therefore, we welcome all people who are seeking Christ and the transformation from sinners to saints that can only occur by the power of his grace.

Might we welcome practicing homosexuals in the hopes that they might come to a knowledge and practice of the truth. Yes, but very carefully so as not to mislead.

This is the teaching of the Episocopal Church, should the Catholic Church change her teachings in order to become more welcoming?

Is this what happens in doing so…that practicing homosexuals are led to a knowledge and practice of truth? Or, do they find themselves justified? Social justice is a compelling argument, but I don’t believe we are helping anyone with a watering down of the faith.

Might I add that the Episcopal Church has a liturgy quite similar to the Catholic Church, and is quite warm and welcoming? (I was raised in this tradition, but converted 10 years ago.)

 

[guanophore]

I have a question about this: Does the gravity of homosexual acts meet the 3 crtieria for mortal sin always? Or are these viewed the same way as masturbation, in that the sinner is less culpable due to force of habit, immaturity, influences of stress, etc?

Most “Catholics” that are practicing a homosexual lifestyle have never read the church’s teaching on this condition.

Those that have simply “disagree” with the church teaching, and claim primacy of conscience.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

Most “Catholics” that are practicing a homosexual lifestyle have never read the church’s teaching on this condition.

Agreed. But, not because they don’t know it exists, but because they are afraid of being educated.

Those that have simply “disagree” with the church teaching, and claim primacy of conscience.

It is so much easier to disagree with something that is misunderstood. Conscience never rejects truth and the desire to obtain it. Selfishness does. Selfishness views the truth as the enemy.

Dan

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Chortle,

I would be against it! Homosexual people are normal people and they are equal to us. They should celebrate mass with everybody else. I don’t see any good reason why they should have any special services dedicated to them. In the end, some people might even get the message wrong and understand that you support homosexuality, which is of course wrong.

Pax!

 

[DeaconTony]

My statement is related to both homosexuals (gays) and heterosexuals (strights). any sexual act outside of the sacrament of marriage is sinful. All of us, stright or gay, need to be chaste even in marriage.

 

[Donmogs]

Sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin.

Recieving the Holy Eucharist in the state of mortal sin is a sacriledge and greatly offends God beside being a mortal sin.

So do you want to save some souls?

Seems the answer is obvious.

By definition I believe gay means they take pride in their homosexuality. Christ is also clear that repentance not pride is the way to heaven.

QUOTE=Chortle;2174799]My pastor is proposing to begin a ministry to lesbians and gays by making our parish a “welcoming church.” He has asked for feedback on this from me and the other members of the pastoral council. My gut feeling is positive in that I’d like to bring the good news of Christ to these people. I’ve read the USCCB statement “Ministry to Persons with a Homosexual Inclination” which I found to be very informative and helpful.

I still have a concern, however, and it has to do with welcoming homosexuals into full participation within our parish without making it clear to them that homosexual acts are sinful. In particular, I don’t feel that it would be right for them to partake of holy communion while still engaged in a homosexual lifestyle, without any intention to change. (In fairness, I also feel this way about the straight men and women in our church who are cohabiting, yet who receive communion with no compunction at all about their behavior.)

Any insight you can offer would be appreciated…

 

[DeaconTony]

My question is do we welcom stright people into church who commit adultery, fornication, masterbation? If we welcome stright people who do that, should we not welcome gays who sin too? Of course it goes without saying that all should be chaste according to their state in life. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. What is commanded of the gays is also commanded of the strights.

 

[Rebecca_New]

Because they live in ignorance, and often in denial.

Why is not possible for non-catholics to realize that pre-marital sex, birth control and abortions are gravely wrong? Because its not part of their worldview.

I think its often the same way with LGBT – its not a part of their worldview.

You can’t just tell someone, “what you’re doing is wrong,” if they have no basis on which to accept that judgement.

I agree with you and would like to add that the world is telling them that it is OK. In some circles it is actually the “thing”. Look at the supposed idols of the screen that are doing SSA parts in movies and on stage.

I used to be of the mindset that the majority rules. Talk about being blindfolded to the truth!

 

[Rebecca_New]

Chortle,

I would be against it! Homosexual people are normal people and they are equal to us. They should celebrate mass with everybody else. I don’t see any good reason why they should have any special services dedicated to them. In the end, some people might even get the message wrong and understand that you support homosexuality, which is of course wrong.

Pax!

I agree with you-but wouldn’t it be fitting for someone who has seen the light give a witness? Are the Priests able to somehow guide this sector of the faith with any success?

 

[MisterT]

I am compelled to respond to this because of the incredible amount of animosity and hatred I am reading in the responses to this thread. This is not the Catholic way, at least not MY Catholic church.

First of all, let me state that I am gay so let’s get all the gay haters out of the way now. Second of all, let me state that I am in a committed relationship with a partner. We are married in our hearts and, therefore, believe we are not committing a sin expressing love for one another or with one another. Third of all, I am a practicing Catholic who does NOT receive Holy Communion. I will not receive Communion because I want to obey the laws of the Catholic church…NOT because I believe that what I am doing is a sin.

I do not want to “create my own world” or “live by my own rules” or “justify what is wrong to be right”. I know in my heart that God created me and I also know that I did not choose to be gay. I have had these feelings all my life and did not “opt” to have them. This is the part that I pray the Catholic church will see some day and change the laws. But, I am sure the Holy Trinity will enlighten the church. It will not be me or any other homosexual person. The message will come from God Himself.

So, to all the people who wrote those horrible, judgmental things about homosexuals and how they are sick of them and that they are going to hell, won’t you feel silly when I am standing right next to you in heaven? Won’t you feel ashamed when God finally shows you that loving me and accepting me is just like loving Him and accepting Him? I love God and attend church every week. My life would be nothing without Him. He has brought me out of despair on so many occasions that I have lost count. (Shame on me for losing count!) There have been so many people on this site that reached out to me that I feel blessed. If one more person accepts gays and does not judge them or their actions as a result of this post, God has worked a miracle through me. Amen!

 

[davidv]

First of all, let me state that I am gay so let’s get all the gay haters out of the way now. Second of all, let me state that I am in a committed relationship with a partner. We are married in our hearts and, therefore, believe we are not committing a sin expressing love for one another or with one another. Third of all, I am a practicing Catholic who does NOT receive Holy Communion. I will not receive Communion because I want to obey the laws of the Catholic church…NOT because I believe that what I am doing is a sin.

So why are you only obeying this law? What about the laws defining what marriage is? Or the ones that define chastity?

I do not want to “create my own world” or “live by my own rules” or “justify what is wrong to be right”.

But you just did by rejecting significant teachings of the Church.

I know in my heart that God created me and I also know that I did not choose to be gay. I have had these feelings all my life and did not “opt” to have them. This is the part that I pray the Catholic church will see some day and change the laws. But, I am sure the Holy Trinity will enlighten the church. It will not be me or any other homosexual person. The message will come from God Himself.

Since you have not listened to God’s messengers (the bishops and priests of His church) you might not listen if God would speak directly to you.

 

[buffalo]

I am compelled to respond to this because of the incredible amount of animosity and hatred I am reading in the responses to this thread. This is not the Catholic way, at least not MY Catholic church.

First of all, let me state that I am gay so let’s get all the gay haters out of the way now. Second of all, let me state that I am in a committed relationship with a partner. We are married in our hearts and, therefore, believe we are not committing a sin expressing love for one another or with one another. Third of all, I am a practicing Catholic who does NOT receive Holy Communion. I will not receive Communion because I want to obey the laws of the Catholic church…NOT because I believe that what I am doing is a sin.

I do not want to “create my own world” or “live by my own rules” or “justify what is wrong to be right”. I know in my heart that God created me and I also know that I did not choose to be gay. I have had these feelings all my life and did not “opt” to have them. This is the part that I pray the Catholic church will see some day and change the laws. But, I am sure the Holy Trinity will enlighten the church. It will not be me or any other homosexual person. The message will come from God Himself.

So, to all the people who wrote those horrible, judgmental things about homosexuals and how they are sick of them and that they are going to hell, won’t you feel silly when I am standing right next to you in heaven? Won’t you feel ashamed when God finally shows you that loving me and accepting me is just like loving Him and accepting Him? I love God and attend church every week. My life would be nothing without Him. He has brought me out of despair on so many occasions that I have lost count. (Shame on me for losing count!) There have been so many people on this site that reached out to me that I feel blessed. If one more person accepts gays and does not judge them or their actions as a result of this post, God has worked a miracle through me. Amen!

The Catholic way is to love the sinner and hate the sin. True Christian charity demands fraternal correction. That is because we do care about you! The Catholic church nor any poster here has the authority to change Christ’s teachings.