Homosexuals Say Married Couples Required to Have Children

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As far as I am concerned, this is just another terrorist attack by the Culture of Death on the traditional family. :mad:
 
I do greatly oppose this, but they do have a real point. We’re going to have to come up with a pretty good definition of legal marriage to block these sorts of things. There has to be a better way for them to point this out, though…
 
I do greatly oppose this, but they do have a real point. We’re going to have to come up with a pretty good definition of legal marriage to block these sorts of things. There has to be a better way for them to point this out, though…
They have absolutely no point. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Period. Since they cannot have marriage, they think no-one should.
 
nwcn.com/statenews/washington/stories/NW_020507WABinitiative957SW.546c6a4d.html

“Under the initiative, marriage would be limited to men and women who are able to have children.”

seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2003558717_nokids06m.html

“The measure would also dissolve the union of those who remain childless three years after marrying.”
The article refers to “social conservatives who scream that marriage is for the sole purpose of procreation.”

Apart from the fact that most social conservatives have no problem whatever speaking in a normal tone of voice, I have never encountered someone who said that procreation was the *sole *purpose of marriage. I do know people who think it is the *primary *purpose (I’m not sure I would agree–in my view the three traditional purposes of marriage can’t be ranked easily). But this is a classic example of people not paying any real attention to what their opponents are saying. They are so blind with rage that they simply don’t care about fairness.

Granted, lots of people on the conservative side do the same thing (witness the persistent statement by conservatives that Gene Robinson “left his wife for his gay lover” which is completely false). It’s wrong no matter who does it.

Edwin
 
I do greatly oppose this, but they do have a real point. We’re going to have to come up with a pretty good definition of legal marriage to block these sorts of things. There has to be a better way for them to point this out, though…
What real point? They start from a false premise.
 
Hilarious and pointed, though the aim may be slightly off – as shown in this thread, plenty of people are for straight-only marriage not for reasons of procreation but for the simple idea that ‘God/the Church/the bible said so’.

I’d rather see the government keep its nose out of marriage entirely. Offer civil unions to any who want them for tax purposes, custody, inheritance rights, &c., but leave marriage up to the churches. Everybody wins.
 
Hilarious and pointed, though the aim may be slightly off – as shown in this thread, plenty of people are for straight-only marriage not for reasons of procreation but for the simple idea that ‘God/the Church/the bible said so’.

I’d rather see the government keep its nose out of marriage entirely. Offer civil unions to any who want them for tax purposes, custody, inheritance rights, &c., but leave marriage up to the churches. Everybody wins.
Except for the “custody” part of your argument, then the children lose.
 
I’d rather see the government keep its nose out of marriage entirely. Offer civil unions to any who want them for tax purposes, custody, inheritance rights, &c., but leave marriage up to the churches. Everybody wins.
:amen:

A very good point.

After all a sacrament shouldn’t be mixed up with government or other churches.

-Kathie :bowdown:
 
For a very long time now I have been thinking that Marriage is a sacrament. It has no place in our government which is a Seperation of Curch and State.

In my opinion, if the Government is preventing the term "Marriage’ from homosexuals, then they should prevent it from heterosexuals.
All government unions should be called Civil unions, since that is what they are.

All “Marriages” would be preformed at a church or in a religious service of your faith.

just my two cents.
 
For a very long time now I have been thinking that Marriage is a sacrament. It has no place in our government which is a Seperation of Curch and State.

In my opinion, if the Government is preventing the term "Marriage’ from homosexuals, then they should prevent it from heterosexuals.
All government unions should be called Civil unions, since that is what they are.

All “Marriages” would be preformed at a church or in a religious service of your faith.

just my two cents.
The problem is that it is a sacrament that is written in the natural law. Since it is part of our being, governments can’t just ignore it. Sure, the Church gives us the fuller understanding of Marriage, but that doesn’t mean it can be seperated from the world. Governments (especially one like ours that tries to seperate itself from a particular religion) are left trying to explain the concept of marriage that is written in our being.
 
Hilarious and pointed, though the aim may be slightly off – as shown in this thread, plenty of people are for straight-only marriage not for reasons of procreation but for the simple idea that ‘God/the Church/the bible said so’.

I’d rather see the government keep its nose out of marriage entirely. Offer civil unions to any who want them for tax purposes, custody, inheritance rights, &c., but leave marriage up to the churches. Everybody wins.
Everyone loses. Marriage is an institution that existed from the beginning. The state has no authority to redefine such a fundamental institution.

Civil unions are simply a cover to introduce homosexual marriage. They are not needed. The law is available to secure agreements for folks who have tax issues, or medical issues, or inheritence issues. There is no need to create faux unions to solve these problems.
 
:amen:

A very good point.

After all a sacrament shouldn’t be mixed up with government or other churches.

-Kathie :bowdown:
Not all marriages are sacramental. The government has the obligation to ensure marriage is not redefined. That is why there are laws against brothers and sisters not marrying. It has nothing to do with sacraments. It is a basic principle of civilization.
 
Hilarious and pointed, though the aim may be slightly off – as shown in this thread, plenty of people are for straight-only marriage not for reasons of procreation but for the simple idea that ‘God/the Church/the bible said so’.

I’d rather see the government keep its nose out of marriage entirely. Offer civil unions to any who want them for tax purposes, custody, inheritance rights, &c., but leave marriage up to the churches. Everybody wins.
The government has a legitimate concern with the basic building block of society - marriage and the family. Children have a natural right to a male father and female mother.

When a couple has children naturally, they take on a difficult sacrifice that benefits the public good. A marriage also benefits the public good when a couple adopts - especially when they adopt because they can’t have children. Since societies benefit in these situations, it is right for the government to give benefits to people to take on these tasks.

I have no problem with reducing or restricting government benefits to heterosexual couples that do not raise children. I would even suggest the government should increase benefits to couples that do have children.
 
The problem is that it is a sacrament that is written in the natural law. Since it is part of our being, governments can’t just ignore it. Sure, the Church gives us the fuller understanding of Marriage, but that doesn’t mean it can be seperated from the world. Governments (especially one like ours that tries to seperate itself from a particular religion) are left trying to explain the concept of marriage that is written in our being.
The concept is Civil Union for both heterosexual and homosexual partners and is performed by the governtment or an official

Marriage is performed by the church
 
Except for the “custody” part of your argument, then the children lose.
I’d be a starry-eyed idealist if I had the time. Divorce happens, and I admit it. That doesn’t make it a good thing – but it makes it a thing we must deal with somehow.
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Everyone loses. Marriage is an institution that existed from the beginning. The state has no authority to redefine such a fundamental institution.
Whether or not marriage ‘existed from the beginning’, the state – or rather, the society – has every authority to redefine institutions. Such fundamental institutions are what make a civilization, and if the society recognizes a need for change they will be changed.

What I am proposing makes the entire question irrelevant: you get to keep your straights-only institution of marriage, everybody (including you) gets to enjoy the societal benefits that come from living as partners in union.
Civil unions are simply a cover to introduce homosexual marriage. They are not needed. The law is available to secure agreements for folks who have tax issues, or medical issues, or inheritence issues. There is no need to create faux unions to solve these problems.
That law already exists – but only for heterosexuals. Extend the protections and privileges that come with being committed to live together to all, no matter their orientation, and then it will be fair and just.
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Maranatha:
Children have a natural right to a male father and female mother.
If they do, then make single motherhood illegal. Force everyone to live in plastic hamster-bubbles to avoid the possibility of making widows or widowers before the children attain majority. These follow naturally, do they not?
When a couple has children naturally, they take on a difficult sacrifice that benefits the public good. A marriage also benefits the public good when a couple adopts - especially when they adopt because they can’t have children. Since societies benefit in these situations, it is right for the government to give benefits to people to take on these tasks.
I have no problem with reducing or restricting government benefits to heterosexual couples that do not raise children. I would even suggest the government should increase benefits to couples that do have children.
I applaud your consistency 😉

If childless heterosexual couples and (childless) homosexual couples were considered on the same civil level by the government, with rights such as hospital visitation and inheritance, and the tax breaks and other goodies came when children started appearing, would you be satisfied?
 
The concept is Civil Union for both heterosexual and homosexual partners and is performed by the governtment or an official

Marriage is performed by the church
Yes, I know. But the “concept” is flawed because the idea of “Civil Union” flies in the face of natural law.
The societal benefits that come from living as partners in union
Homosexual union does not have societial benefits. It breaks down society.
If they do, then make single motherhood illegal. Force everyone to live in plastic hamster-bubbles to avoid the possibility of making widows or widowers before the children attain majority. These follow naturally, do they not?
No, they don’t follow. Your examples happen because of some type of tragedy, such as divorce or death. Homosexual unions are looking for a pro-active blessing. Quite different.
 
Whether or not marriage ‘existed from the beginning’,*** the state – or rather, the society – has every authority to redefine institutions. Such fundamental institutions are what make a civilization, and if the society recognizes a need for change they will be changed***.

What I am proposing makes the entire question irrelevant: you get to keep your straights-only institution of marriage, everybody (including you) gets to enjoy the societal benefits that come from living as partners in union.
This is the crux of the matter. Who is supposed to make that change? When it is voted on by the people, the proposed changes are generally rejected. When the small groups of black robes sit in a room and decide, the changes are accepted.

Your proposal doesn’t make the question irrelevant, it only makes the majority preference irrelevant. The societal benefits of partners in union are built around the fundamental belief people have in the benefits of a nuclear, heterosexual family model.
 
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