Honest Question for those who prefer EF

[BennyBoy89]

Would you prefer the OF over the EF if it was celebrated properly (as V2 actually intended it)? I’m defining properly celebrated by the priest facing ad orientem, the incorporation of Latin, and no Oregon Catholic Press ( ). The dignity would along the lines of Trent, but the readings, prayers, etc would be according to V2.

Would you still prefer the EF?

 

[Dauphin]

Would you still prefer the EF?

Yep. As important as the externals are, the prayers are what matter most. The prayers of the Traditional Latin Mass have an unmatched beauty and doctrinal depth.

 

[Mister_De]

Would you prefer the OF over the EF if it was celebrated properly (as V2 actually intended it)?

No…

If I wanted to attend a Mass like that, then I’d go to a Protestant service.

 

[Cranch]

You have made this a little confusing by asking two questions which are mirror images.
The second responder said no to question 1:

Would you prefer the OF over the EF if it was celebrated properly (as V2 actually intended it)?

The first responder said yes to question 2:

Would you still prefer the EF?

But in the end they said the same thing. And so do I.

 

[markadm]

No…

If I wanted to attend a Mass like that, then I’d go to a Protestant service.

That’s uncharitable; the novus ordo Mass, as Vatican II actually intended it would still be a good thing, and a thing of beauty.

That notwithstanding, I still would prefer the E.F…

 

[Spiller]

Yep. As important as the externals are, the prayers are what matter most. The prayers of the Traditional Latin Mass have an unmatched beauty and doctrinal depth.

So your opinion says.

I think the prayers of the Pauline Mass and the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom are both far more beautiful and deep. And they’re not mumbled in a foreign language with the priest’s back to us.

 

[LilyM]

So your opinion says.

I think the prayers of the Pauline Mass and the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom are both far more beautiful and deep. And they’re not mumbled in a foreign language with the priest’s back to us.

Actually the Divine Liturgy sometimes IS said in a non-vernacular language, there are ‘dead’ language like Old Church Slavonic that are used for it. And the Pauline Mass is sometimes also said in Latin with the priest facing ad orientem.

And it’s not ‘mumbling’, don’t call it that. The priest in the Traditional Latin Mass says some prayers to himself. That happens in the Pauline Mass too - not infrequently the Prayers over the Gifts, for example, will be said by the priest to himself, either while a hymn is being sung or while the congregation sits in silence.

 

[Formosus]

So your opinion says.

I think the prayers of the Pauline Mass and the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom are both far more beautiful and deep. And they’re not mumbled in a foreign language with the priest’s back to us.

It is the tradition of some Slavic churches to say the Canon silently during the Divine Liturgy (this is not a latinization). So there goes your complaint about “mumbled” in a foreign language comment.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I think the prayers of the Pauline Mass and the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom are both far more beautiful and deep. And they’re not mumbled in a foreign language with the priest’s back to us.

I don’t know where you got this idea. In the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the priest AND deacon both stand facing east–that is “with their backs to us.”.

 

[AlexB]

Between 1983 - 1997, I attended just such a Mass, ad orientem, in Latin, with traditional musical accompaniment.

By about 1988, I realized something was missing, and as I traveled to other cities and attended their TLMs, I felt that the OF I was attending was like middle school. And I was ready for high school.

Ultimately, it came down to what the EF had (additional prayers and rubrics) and didn’t have (lay lectors). Each time I attend an OF Latin Mass nowadays, I am glad I made the switch.

 

[Cat]

No…

If I wanted to attend a Mass like that, then I’d go to a Protestant service.

How many Protestant services have you attended? What denominations?

And when was the last time you attended a Protestant service in which the Sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus was re-presented?

And when was the last time you attended a Protestant service in which Jesus was Truly Present, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity?

When was the last time you attended a Protestant service in which Christians actually ate the Flesh and drank the Blood of Our Lord Jesus?

When was the last time you attended a Protestant service in which the pastor was part of the Apostolic Succession?

When was the last time you attended a Protestant service in which the Christians had the opportunity to confess their sins and be absolved and perform acts of penance before they sat down in the pews?

Mister De, there is no comparison between a Protestant service and a Catholic Mass. Even the most abuse-filled Catholic Mass, if it is valid, gives us Jesus Truly Present and re-presents the Holy Sacrifice.

A few simliar-sounding songs and a guitar or piano does not make a Mass a Protestant service.

 

[Tommy_Joe]

Would you prefer the OF over the EF if it was celebrated properly (as V2 actually intended it)? I’m defining properly celebrated by the priest facing ad orientem, the incorporation of Latin, and no Oregon Catholic Press ( ). The dignity would along the lines of Trent, but the readings, prayers, etc would be according to V2.

Would you still prefer the EF?

Until at some point in the future when I no longer have access to the Extraordinary Form,…I’ll not attend any shape or fashion of a post Vatican II Mass. I don’t care what changes are made.

 

[Spiller]

Actually the Divine Liturgy sometimes IS said in a non-vernacular language, there are ‘dead’ language like Old Church Slavonic that are used for it. And the Pauline Mass is sometimes also said in Latin with the priest facing ad orientem.

And it’s not ‘mumbling’, don’t call it that. The priest in the Traditional Latin Mass says some prayers to himself. That happens in the Pauline Mass too - not infrequently the Prayers over the Gifts, for example, will be said by the priest to himself, either while a hymn is being sung or while the congregation sits in silence.

Not typically.

 

[Spiller]

Until at some point in the future when I no longer have access to the Extraordinary Form,…I’ll not attend any shape or fashion of a post Vatican II Mass. I don’t care what changes are made.

You mean the NORMATIVE Mass of the Latin Rite? The Ordinary Form of the Mass?

 

[Spiller]

I think the prayers of the Pauline Mass and the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom are both far more beautiful and deep. And they’re not mumbled in a foreign language with the priest’s back to us.

I don’t know where you got this idea. In the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the priest AND deacon both stand facing east–that is “with their backs to us.”.

They don’t mumble in a foreign language though.

I’ll listen closely today to make sure…

 

[ethelzguy]

Would you prefer the OF over the EF if it was **celebrated properly **](as V2 actually intended it)? I’m defining properly celebrated by the priest facing ad orientem, the incorporation of Latin, and no Oregon Catholic Press

( ). The dignity would along the lines of Trent, but the readings, prayers, etc would be according to V2.

Would you still prefer the EF?

“Celebrated Properly” as defined by the Church?

Or as defined by one individual? Your post is confusing

There IS a difference.

PS…Can you direct us to where V2 actually defined it as you do above?

 

[SJP]

And they’re not mumbled in a foreign language with the priest’s back to us.

I’ll respond with the words of the Pope:

What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful. It behooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place.

Pope Benedict XVI Explanatory Letter on “Summorum Pontificum”

Now Spiller, do you think that you’re doing your soul good when you intentionally misinterpret what is occuring in the EF of the Mass?

I’ll leave you, once again with the words of our Pope:

Let us generously open our hearts…

Pope Benedict XVI Explanatory Letter on “Summorum Pontificum”

 

[Dauphin]

So your opinion says.

I’m aware it’s my opinion, thanks. It’s also the correct opinion.

I think the prayers of the Pauline Mass…are far more beautiful and deep. And they’re not mumbled in a foreign language with the priest’s back to us.

This is incorrect. The prayers of the Pauline Mass are neutered and stripped of much Catholic content. The prayers of the Traditional Latin Mass are superior, and accurately and fully express the Church’s doctrine on the Sacrifice of the Mass.

Also, the Latin language is proper to the Mass of the Latin Rite. The vernacular is really what’s foreign to the Mass, requiring an indult to encroach upon the authentic language of the Latin Rite.

The priest and people pray together, offering the sacrifice to the Father. The ad orientem posture is most expressive of this. It also ensures that the personality of the priest is obscured to permit a focus on what’s actually important. I understand that you feel that the priest is supposed to be your entertainer, and that it’s rude for your entertainer to turn his back to you or pray in a low voice, but this simply isn’t the case.

 

[ethelzguy]

I’m aware it’s my opinion, thanks. It’s also the correct opinion.

This is incorrect. The prayers of the Pauline Mass are neutered and stripped of much Catholic content. The prayers of the Traditional Latin Mass are superior, and accurately and fully express the Church’s doctrine on the Sacrifice of the Mass.

Also, the Latin language is proper to the Mass of the Latin Rite. The vernacular is really what’s foreign to the Mass, requiring an indult to encroach upon the authentic language of the Latin Rite.

The priest and people pray together, offering the sacrifice to the Father. The ad orientem posture is most expressive of this. It also ensures that the personality of the priest is obscured to permit a focus on what’s actually important. I understand that you feel that the priest is supposed to be your entertainer, and that it’s rude for your entertainer to turn his back to you or pray in a low voice, but this simply isn’t the case.

Because it is your opinion, does not guarantee that it is correct.

 

[Dauphin]

Because it is your opinion, does not guarantee that it is correct.

Then tell me why it’s incorrect.

Saying “that’s just your opinion” is simply a liberal code language for “every opinion is as good as the next - you’re not being nice if you say you’re right and I’m wrong”. It’s completely absurd.