I’m not going to waste my time attempting to dialogue with someone who feels that “chimpanzees in tutus in the sanctuary during consecration” compares with “Mass in the vernacular”.
Judging from the posts of your past, it wouldnt be a dialogue anyway. it would be you refusing to read or comprehend the official documents of the Church and coming up with some ludicrously ignorant way to justidy your excuse for theology.
Anyone can sit in front of a computer, working the search engines for snippets that support their position. The question is, what is in your hearts and minds? How do you LIVE your Faith daily?
I don’t like your subtle hint that i somehow dont live my faith or have it on my heart and mind just because I don’t agree with you. How do i live my faith? I invite my protestant friends to mass. I explain Catholic tehology to non-catholics. I defend the Church in class when secularists bash us. I pray rosaries and chaplets. I attend mass every sunday and on holy days, and go to confession regularly about every 2 weeks. I have talked to both bishops and pastors, including at the local Greek Orthodox parish and the Coptic bishop of California, and have asked them about re-union with Catholicism. I received two religious medals during my time in the Scouting program, which saw fit to bestow upon me the Eagle Award. I pray for the Church, its holy Traditions, its unity, and for us all to be made more like God, so that we might reflect his glory and majesty in our everyday life.
And I’m still not good enough for the perfect and all-holy YOU?
**I rarely, if ever use “cut and paste” argument. **I speak from life experience. Save for the occasional part-time/substitute teaching gigs, I have spent my whole life in the business world.
I am well versed in the methods of manipulation of graphs, charts, numbers, and verbage. Cut and Paste arguments are meaningless to me. They do not necessarily demonstrate one’s beliefs or knowledge…only their computer manipulation skills.
Read the posts of people like Deacon Ed B, or JREducation. They speak from their hearts and minds. What’s in yours?
Thats because you rarely, if ever, make any arguments. Arguments require proof to back them up, which is why we cite OFFICIAL CHURCH DOCUMENTS!
When you say you speak “from life experience,” all i hear is you telling me that your life experience is better and more meaningful than the life experiences of 1,960 years of Catholics who built up what you want to throw out.
Your desire to use your “life experiences” is just an arrogant and ignorant way of saying that the Church, and her official documents, have no role in your life unless you agree with them. If they dont mesh with tour “life experiences” then you get to ignore them, and riducle those who DO heed them! I wonde rif anybody else here is as completely fed up with your ridiculous prejudice against traditional Catholics as I am!!
How did I know that you were going to jump on the analogy and ignore the actual argument:shrug:
I didn’t see any argument there; i saw a weak and downright
stupid excuse to ignore what the Church has set down! You say traiditionalists think we know more than the Church? Well then why is it you who is deciding that YOU know what needs to be followed or not followed?
The argument is clear. Traditionalists like to interpret such commentary as mandatory to suit their agenda, when clearly it is NOT mandatory.
Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.
You’re saying that what is in the GIRM and rubrics is not mandatory? That flies in the face of the Pope, the Magisterium, and THE TRUTH! Since when has any law ever been optional?
Cut and Paste until your fingers fall off if you like. The Holy Spirit guides the Pope, who presides over the Bishops and Priests.
Obviously they interpret the document differently than you do. Where my soul is concerned I will submit to the authority of the Church, not an anonymous internet poster who thinks they know Church teaching better than the Church itself and it’s clergy.
The Pope AGREES with us!! HE is the one advocating greate ruse of Latin, of Chant, of tradition! He has said so in all his documents. And for people like you who refuse to read or obey any official Church documents, you can just look at his “life experiences” and what actions he has taken: new papal MC. New sistine choir director. new vestments. traditional ferula. traditional throne. Traditional CATHOLICISM!
Several Mass prayers are said in Latin in our parish, and we use a pipe organ too…but the Mass is said in the vernacular and we use guitars and a piano also. It is not prohibited, any more than Latin and organs are mandatory.
I am sincerely glad for you and your parish! I love knowing that parsihes such as that exist, because they are rare! Realize that! I amsubjected to liturgical dance, drums, rock music, and improvised prayers many times when i attend mass! The rest of us want a parish more like yours! Stop bashing our legs out from under as as we struggle for what you have been blessed with!
Well, the level of participation for those attending the OF as compared to those who attend the EF is so much more…
Anyone who understands what “participation” means knows this isnt true. We participate at mass not only by being a cantor or lector, but by
praying the mass. The mass is a prayer, not a performance. Singing and reading are not the best ways to contribute. The best way is to fulfill your role as a layman, rather than try to encroach upon the roles of the the priest. We should pray along with the prayers of the mass, thinking about what they mean, and asking oursleves how we can use the mass to better our lives and the lives of others. THAT is what participation means, and i am willing to guess that more people participate like that at a the Extraordinary Form!
Too many people at the OF just want to be entgertained!
). The dignity would along the lines of Trent, but the readings, prayers, etc would be according to V2.
