Honest questions about Catholicism (all faith traditions welcome to respond!)

[iwillrisenow]

Thank you to everyone who has posted here. I appreciate your taking the time to write your responses to the questions I’ve been asking and will continue to seek answers for.

I’ve been trying to think about how to say this…please bear with me and again, know that I do not mean any disrespect or disregard. However…most, if not all, of the answers here rely on the belief that the Church is the True Church and that it is infallible. I understand and respect that most, if not all, Catholics are only going to (publicly, at least) answer faith questions within those terms. The difficult thing for people who are either new to the Faith or examining it more closely is that it feels like the questions never really get addressed. It’s sort of how a parent might tell a child “Because I said so,” and because the parent is the child’s absolute authority as his or her legal guardian the child accepts the argument. It seems like any Catholic discussion of faith issues ends up getting to a point of “because the Church says so”…and, honestly, this is part of what concerns me about it.

I understand that there are predominantly Latino, Asian, etc. parishes around in certain cities. That being said, you cannot deny that the highest administration, overall cultural orientation, and leadership of the Church is predominantly European or Euro-American. Some may lament the fact that certain parishes seem to have been “taken over” and that the churches “should” be white or white-dominated or there’s something wrong…but perhaps the demographics of certain areas have simply changed. I am glad to see that the Church looks more universal than it used to these days on the local level, but there is still a great deal to be done more broadly.

Thank you all for clarifying what I said about the Sacraments being only for Catholics in a state of grace- through your sharing, I realize that what I mean is the Eucharist

And that you all again for your responses…God Bless you all

 

[grannymh]

. However…most, if not all, of the answers here rely on the belief that the Church is the True Church and that it is infallible. I understand and respect that most, if not all, Thank you all for clarifying what I said about the Sacraments being only for Catholics in a state of grace- through your sharing, I realize that what I mean is the Eucharist

And that you all again for your responses…God Bless you all

Please let me know if you are still interested in a discussion. For example, there is a bit of exaggeration in the above. Also, infallible does not always mean infallible. There are precise conditions before one can refer to “infallible”. As for the term The True Church, one needs to accept that Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity.

 

[Debbie_Kono]

Maybe Traditional Catholicism is the answer.

 

[simpleas]

Maybe Traditional Catholicism is the answer.

what is traditional Catholicism, if it’s not what all parishes around the world teach?

 

[grannymh]

what is traditional Catholicism, if it’s not what all parishes around the world teach?

Please ask your question in the CAF Traditional Catholicism Forum.

Traditional Catholicism uses the Latin Mass of years ago. It also retains the real teachings of Catholicism. It does not tamper with doctrines like some current people.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Thank you to everyone who has posted here. I appreciate your taking the time to write your responses to the questions I’ve been asking and will continue to seek answers for.

I’ve been trying to think about how to say this…please bear with me and again, know that I do not mean any disrespect or disregard. However…most, if not all, of the answers here rely on the belief that the Church is the True Church and that it is infallible. I understand and respect that most, if not all, Catholics are only going to (publicly, at least) answer faith questions within those terms. The difficult thing for people who are either new to the Faith or examining it more closely is that it feels like the questions never really get addressed. It’s sort of how a parent might tell a child “Because I said so,” and because the parent is the child’s absolute authority as his or her legal guardian the child accepts the argument. It seems like any Catholic discussion of faith issues ends up getting to a point of “because the Church says so”…and, honestly, this is part of what concerns me about it.

I understand that there are predominantly Latino, Asian, etc. parishes around in certain cities. That being said, you cannot deny that the highest administration, overall cultural orientation, and leadership of the Church is predominantly European or Euro-American. Some may lament the fact that certain parishes seem to have been “taken over” and that the churches “should” be white or white-dominated or there’s something wrong…but perhaps the demographics of certain areas have simply changed. I am glad to see that the Church looks more universal than it used to these days on the local level, but there is still a great deal to be done more broadly.

Thank you all for clarifying what I said about the Sacraments being only for Catholics in a state of grace- through your sharing, I realize that what I mean is the Eucharist

And that you all again for your responses…God Bless you all

There are two aspects to your concern about “Because I said so”. One is the reasoning behind the method of “because I said so” (BISS). The other is the answers that are buried behind BISS.

BISS is a method that is older than the worlds oldest profession. The reasoning has to do with survival. One cannot have an expectation of having every question answered right here and now, so BISS is used. It’s used in parenting, the military, management, etc. It has also been used in Catholicism, however it should not be because not only is it an infringement on free will, it is also a failure of teaching. Every effort should be made to explain Catholic teaching to people who have the capacity to understand it. Unfortunately the BISS method is deeply engrained in some, especially older, Catholics. They put a heavy emphasis on obedience, so much so that many people of my generation (Gen X) have been driven away from the Church because they didn’t understand and they didn’t find answers to many questions that were simply not asked by anyone 60 years ago.

The other part - the answers buried behind the BISS method, are attainable with enough effort, especially due to the internet and programs in parishes brought on by the Charismatic movement in the Church.

You are going to find digestible answers to your questions outside of the Mass, the Sacraments or the Magesterium - these things essentially go over the heads of most laity, and have to be reworked into something teachable for the folks in the peanut gallery who are asking all sorts of tough questions. But, the basis for the answers comes from Church teaching. For example, lay apostolates like Catholic Answers. Also, charismatic parish programs that are essentially run by the laity, like Christ Renews His Parish or That Man is You. Once you’ve found enough answers, the Mass, the Sacraments, and the Magisterium will be much easier to assent to and understand.

You have misunderstandings about the Church and it’s teachings. It’s not like what you think it is. If something has been explained to you, and you still think it’s wrong, then either there is something you don’t yet grasp (or you simply disagree with, which is fine as long as you are actively trying to understand) which is all to common, and you are therefore given over to BISS; or whoever is doing the explaining has failed to properly get their point across, which is also all to common.

I don’t think it often happens that someone completely understands a teaching within the context of the whole, and still rejects all of it. Keep in mind that this stuff has been debated for two thousand years and continues to be unfolded/understood properly.

 

[Hope1960]

I’m 56, almost 57 and not a “grayish” generation.

 

[Hope1960]

BTW, its me, Faith1960. I changed my name.

 

[Lucretius]

Dear IWillRiseNow,

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but many of your views are deeply influenced by Western liberal thought, that is, the current intellectual fads of our era. Just something to be mindful of

If Christ died for our salvation, why are we still in this sort of limbo state of “well, sorta” but never, ever good enough for Him? Deep down, I believe that God’s love goes so beyond anything that we can say or do that it could extend to any human being on the planet, in any way. I have trouble accepting that we need to do xyz when it is God who offers us salvation.

What if doing xyz is precisely how we accept Christ’s love: if you love me, you will keep my commandments?

and that a life of isolation and separation is preferable, especially when there is the chance for mutual commitment.

Maybe they don’t have to be alone? I don’t understand why not being allowed with have sexual relations with the same sex condemns anyone to loneliness: do you need sex to not be lonely? What about friends? Family? Monks and nuns live in a community, they aren’t lonely.

And maybe two of the same sex can commit to each other (think of Adelphopoiesis). They just can’t engage in any sexual activity together.

I cannot imagine that He limits his grace thisway…why wouldn’t He offer the Sacraments to anyone who comes to Him?

Maybe, because, by not accepting his Gospel, his Church, and his ordinary means for cleansing sin, they are the ones not offering themselves to him? If a husband comes to his wedding drunk and dressed in dirty party clothes, is he not the one ill-prepared to receiving his wife?

As a non-European, I have trouble feeling truly at home and accepted in the Church for everything that I am. This extends to everything from the fact that I am in the single state of life against my will to the fact that I am extremely isolated in apredominately white parish.

Here’s an idea, we can pray to the holy Spirit together for deep understanding of the Gospel and fidelity to him, and like the Greek and Latin Church Fathers did to Greek and Latin (“European”) culture before you, you can go and baptise your own culture in the Name of the Lord

Youeither accept everything, or you don’ttruly love God and you’re out.

But look at it from both of our points of view: the fundamental teachings of the Church, the Gospel that Christ revealed, was revealed by God himself. Shouldn’t we trust him as our teacher? When our school teacher would teach us, we listened and accepted things based largely on the fact that the teacher taught them, yes? Well, if we do that with a trained yet fallible teacher, how much more should be do that to an infallible, perfect, loving Teacher? If anything, we should take everything that Teacher says as Gospel. Is this not faith means, in part?

And maybe afterwards, we can reflect on his Words and look to discover why they are true, and not just that they are true.

Why don’t we consider that God may be speaking outside the Church?

Why do we consider that God is speaking outside the Church?

Why don’t we try to help each person live out the fullness of their life in Christ,whether they are in the Church or not?

The Life of Christ flows to us ordinarily through the sacraments, correct, and so if one wants to live to the fullness in the Life of Christ, he wants to join the Church, right?

As a final word, remember that belief doesn’t just mean accepting the existing of God…it means trusting him, even when you feel lost and confused.

Christi pax.

 

[iwillrisenowinfaith]

(1/2)

1Lord1Faith: Every effort should be made to explain Catholic teaching to people who have the capacity to understand it. Unfortunately the BISS method is deeply engrained in some, especially older, Catholics. They put a heavy emphasis on obedience, so much so that many people of my generation (Gen X) have been driven away from the Church because they didn’t understand and they didn’t find answers to many questions that were simply not asked by anyone 60 years ago.

I just want to say…thank you for pointing this out. I actually have a lot of hope that if we can get to a point where people are able to ask questions and really understand the teachings, we could rectify this. Some of the most informed and devout Catholics I’ve met have been those in their 20s and 30s, from the generations of the so-called internet natives. There’s a lot of potential for gathering information, connecting with others, and becoming better informed about the teachings of the Church. There is still a problem with stepping outside certain boundaries and getting shouted down by some of the older folks (as we sometimes see even here at CA), but I believe that if younger folks continue to push back gently and respectfully, we’ll be able to find a balance between BISS and healthy discussion and questioning of the teachings with an ultimate goal of increased understanding and faith (hence my new name ).

Lucretius: I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but many of your views are deeply influenced by Western liberal thought, that is, the current intellectual fads of our era. Just something to be mindful of

I don’t know why it’s funny to try and engage with the ideas of our time, even if they come from that great bane of our Catholic existence, “Western liberal thought.” Also…please understand that I’m not out here writing my own catechism…I’m just asking questions, questions that I am sure many others, Catholic or not, have about the Church and its teachings. On the other side of the coin, I find that a lot of times, the emphasis on certain teachings comes as a reaction to a particular movement or trend outside the Church (e.g.- vilifying “liberal thought” because of the social and political trends of the 60s)…and those tend to be the perspectives that I question more.

I appreciate what some of you have been saying about monks and nuns not being lonely or isolated while they are technically single. But I must respectfully disagree with this argument. Religious are living a life that they, in the full exercise of their free will, have chosen in response to a call from God. Single people who do not choose to remain single have not chosen to live alone…yet they do. People who talk about friends and family often assume that everyone has the sorts of social networks that people have generally had for most of the 20th century…the impact of economic, social, and geographic/migratory changes in the past twenty years or so is really only beginning to present itself as observable. Bottom line: there are a lot more completely isolated adults in the world than many of us realize and the situation will likely only get worse, especially if we continue to ignore the issue.

I just want to make it clear that while I am trying to get a better understanding of the teachings I wrote about in my OP, I am not outright rejecting any of them. Far from it. I am just trying to bring out into the open some of the thoughts that have been in the back of my mind since coming into the Church.

That being said…I’m not sure how to move this conversation forward…but while the boards were undergoing their updates, I did revisit some sections of the CCC and worked on getting a better understanding of some of the teachings underlying my questions. I now have a clearer understanding of truth in the Church versus outside of it. There is one teaching, however, that I would like to understand a bit better.

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

Let’s face it…in real, human terms…this is a frightening thing to have agreed to…what it seems like to me is that once you are a part of the Church, you have no choice but to remain in it or you will forfeit your salvation. Meanwhile, if you never seek it out or learn the Truth of the fullness of salvation offered within the Church, but are still sincere in seeking God as well as you know how (e.g.- the dedicated non-denom. Christian, the sincere Baptist minister)…you’re fine. If you are Catholic, however, you are the one responsible not only for your own beliefs but to bring others to this Truth…or you risk your salvation.

 

[iwillrisenowinfaith]

(2/2)
Bottom line…if I’m going to be responsible for all of this…I need to make sure I know what I’m truly representing. Otherwise, it’s difficult to be certain about imposing such terms on someone else when, if they stay the way they are, they are still led by God even if it is in imperfect union with Christ’s Church on earth. I’ve found that my own life has not been made easier or, in earthly terms, better by coming into the Church, and Catholics like to romanticize this saying “we weren’t promised an easy life,” etc. etc., then they log off and cuddle with their spouse, have a loving conversation with their kids before putting them to bed, and then read some works by authors with last names similar to theirs or perhaps look at some images of Jesus or Mary that resemble their own mother, father, sister, brother before heading off to a peaceful night’s rest. I wouldn’t wish my own experience of the Catholic life on any one else, especially if they are saved and happy and successful in their own Christian faith.

 

[simpleas]

I hope this question isn’t received in a bad way, I’m not judging you or anything, as you ask some important questions that I have often thought.

Why did you convert to Catholicism before asking these types of questions?

Again, no malice intended.

Thanks.

 

[iwillrisenowinfaith]

It’s a fair question and one that makes a lot of sense. I take no offense to it at all, as I’d probably have the same question if I were in your shoes.

The basic answer is, I came into the Church primarily driven by faith. At the time, I truly believed it was where God was calling me. I had my doubts, but they seemed small in comparison to my faith in being led to the Church.

Also, I did as much research as I could, understood as much as I could, and trusted the answers as much as I could during that nine months of RCIA. I thought of learning the Faith as a life-long process and trusted that, while I would certainly have questions and doubts, that this was normal, human, okay. I didn’t expect to be one-and-done 100% on board with everything 100% of the time.

In hindsight, I probably was wrong to rush into actually converting within a year’s time. I know several people will study the Faith for years before even thinking about it…and, to be honest, maybe I should still be in my “studying” phase now. But I found it difficult to be “in, but out” and didn’t quite believe that I would truly understand without the Sacraments, without practicing as a Catholic. And there was no doubt in my mind at the time that I was were I was supposed to be…at that time.

I hope this answers your question. Again, no offense taken- I actually appreciate that you “went there”!

 

[simpleas]

Many thanks for your honest reply. You are very right about being in the study phase, I was baptised Catholic as a baby, yet I’m still learning about the faith.

God bless you on your journey.

 

[PJM]

Honest questions about Catholicism (all faith traditions welcome to respond}

Dear friend, I responded to your OPQ in depth just before the site went down for change

I don’t see how to send a Private message as an option on the NEW CAF???

And it seems that reply limits have been halfed???

So I will just pray for you

Patrick [PJM]

 

[RebeccaJ]

Thank you to everyone who has posted here. I appreciate your taking the time to write your responses to the questions I’ve been asking and will continue to seek answers for.

I’ve been trying to think about how to say this…please bear with me and again, know that I do not mean any disrespect or disregard. However…most, if not all, of the answers here rely on the belief that the Church is the True Church and that it is infallible. I understand and respect that most, if not all, Catholics are only going to (publicly, at least) answer faith questions within those terms. The difficult thing for people who are either new to the Faith or examining it more closely is that it feels like the questions never really get addressed. It’s sort of how a parent might tell a child “Because I said so,” and because the parent is the child’s absolute authority as his or her legal guardian the child accepts the argument. It seems like any Catholic discussion of faith issues ends up getting to a point of “because the Church says so”…and, honestly, this is part of what concerns me about it.

I’m also a convert. I had this same question before I was baptized. One thing to note is that the Church is authoritative, not authoritarian. There are multiple scriptures to quote as to why it is, that I assume you studied, (?) If,not it is a good place to start.

It isn’t about following the rules just because. Truth has a name for us, “Jesus Christ”. He taught repeatedly, that we follow His lead out of love, not just to follow rules. Indeed it comes from the heart, this determination to follow,Christ.

In my own studies I found that Jesus established a Church out of love for humanity. The Church has one universal mission, to bring people to Christ. This is a mission based on love for God and love for humanity. St.Paul taught the first Christian converts, that they must die to themselves in order to live. This is a tall order sometimes. It requires sacrificing things we don’t want to sacrifice, but it is part of being a disciple of Christ.

Seek discipleship. Keep Jesus on your horizon, forever as your point of destination.

There is nothing wrong with doubting. It is one thing that spurs us to seek better understanding.