honor of women in islam

[R_not]

No worries, I don’t think anyone was confused.

In comparison, there is still Sam-bo who claims that he is still a Muslim.

Thanks for your honesty.

Are you planning to stay with your family in Bangladesh eating the world’s most delicious food or moving somewhere else to more freely practice your religion?

hhhmmm, seems a muslim is admitting that muslim nations/sharia law doesn’t allow freedom for anyone else.

I just want to make sure everyone notices.

here is a very recent article about freedoms in a muslim land and how a true moderate muslim got his opinion silenced:
sheikyermami.com/2008/05/09/sowdi-arabia-the-right-spirit/

It is correct that islam does not honor anyone. As for women in saudi arabia - they cannot even drive a car, let alone work. And slavery is alive and well in saudi arabia. They dishonor not only little girls and women, but also little boys. The little boys do not escape castration and in some cases full castration - the penis is severed also. Little girls are encouraged to be sexually active well before they normally would so as to please their soon to be masters.

This so called ‘honor’ is just a twist of a definition. It calls for no responsibility to be taken by the muslim male for his poor behavior and instead they are allowed to do anything they want to do. All they have to do is use an excuse such as ‘honor killing’, the woman is at fault, they were infidels/slaves, etc and they can do anything they want.

answering-islam.org/Silas/slavery.htm

 

[Sister_Amy]

Amy, i understand what you were saying more than you could imagine. The Islamic context simply does not solve the problem UNLESS you are obliged to believe these are the words of God. If i have different teachings from God, i will not *instinctively *come to the same conclusion.

If sharing another man/woman in your life is normal, if the feelings are normal, no relationships and no marriages would have ended because of it…same goes for wife beating…if wife beating is ok, if men beating is ok, no one would be insulted to his bones if someone raised his hand to even slap him…both go beyond our feelings and dignity, unless we are OBLIGED to believe otherwise, but thank God, none were taught by Jesus but the opposite was taught, this is why no Islamic context will make them honourable in our eyes.

I had the choice to embrace Islam, or stay a Christian.

And listening to things by people like you, I didn’t understand these teachings about women, so I investigated them. I never had to accept them, which you sugged by saying “OBLIGED.” But I looked at the world and at myself, as a woman, and frankly it made more sense. That is, the real Islam made more sense than what people practice incorrectly, or ignorantly claim. I think about happiness in marriage, and how it is described in Islam, and education in Islam (especially for women) vs. what Paul says about women in his letters–some things which had idly bothered me, and which my father even encouraged me to reject as “man’s law.”

But when I see how women and men behave, just watching them, Islam makes a lot of sense to me. It satisfies my dignity and honor while also encouraging respect for other people. And really I think it’s beautiful, and in the end I saw such tremendous insight into mankind that it proved to me again that Islam is a path ordained by God, complete with wisdom and guidance from Him, through His messenger.

There is one very famous convert to Islam, in fact, who was initially intrigued specifically by the teachings about women in the Qur’an, and it is what drove her to later convert. That is Yvonne Ridley.

 

[Sister_Amy]

hhhmmm, seems a muslim is admitting that muslim nations/sharia law doesn’t allow freedom for anyone else.

Shariah law isn’t the issue so much as a backwards and intolerant culture. Notice that he isn’t afraid of the government, but of his own family’s reaction. And I don’t blame him. My own brother in law (who is Catholic) threatened to call the cops on me for visiting with my family during Christmas.

It is correct that islam does not honor anyone. As for women in saudi arabia - they cannot even drive a car, let alone work. And slavery is alive and well in saudi arabia. They dishonor not only little girls and women, but also little boys. The little boys do not escape castration and in some cases full castration - the penis is severed also. Little girls are encouraged to be sexually active well before they normally would so as to please their soon to be masters.

Ehh… not true. Women cannot drive a car, but they CAN work. They work while being covered, but they do work.

Check out this blog: saudistepfordwife.blogspot.com/2008/03/since-i-cant-write-these-days.html

There are 4 videos, watch the 2nd and 3rd ones–both examples of WORKING SAUDI WOMEN!! One is a journalist, and the other is a doctor–the video even shows her doing in vitro fertilization!!

The journalist has a driver to take her shopping and other places, so it’s not like they are confined to homes because they can’t drive–they just hire drivers. And I’ve never even heard of Saudis castrating anyone, or actual slavery being practiced (buying and selling people) even we know that in the US women are forced into prostitution rings which is pretty much akin to child sex slavery.

This so called ‘honor’ is just a twist of a definition. It calls for no responsibility to be taken by the muslim male for his poor behavior and instead they are allowed to do anything they want to do. All they have to do is use an excuse such as ‘honor killing’, the woman is at fault, they were infidels/slaves, etc and they can do anything they want.

Honor killings aren’t even allowed in Islam.

 

[inJESUS]

And listening to things by people like you, I didn’t understand these teachings about women, so I investigated them.

 

[inJESUS]

In the same way husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one has ever hated his own body but he feeds it and takes care of it, just as Christ also does the church, for we are members of his body. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and will be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. This mystery is great–but I am actually speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Nevertheless, each one of you must also love his own wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband." ~ Ephesians 5: 22-33

Here is Paul. No polygamy, no beating, very beautiful description of marriage.

 

[Angelos]

I had the choice to embrace Islam, or stay a Christian.

However, this does not mean that Muslim men and women have the same freedom to embrace Christianity.

And listening to things by people like you, I didn’t understand these teachings about women, so I investigated them. I never had to accept them, which you sugged by saying “OBLIGED.” But I looked at the world and at myself, as a woman, and frankly it made more sense. That is, the real Islam made more sense than what people practice incorrectly, or ignorantly claim. I think about happiness in marriage, and how it is described in Islam, and education in Islam (especially for women) vs. what Paul says about women in his letters–some things which had idly bothered me, and which my father even encouraged me to reject as “man’s law.”

We must get ready for Sister Amy’s reform movement in Islam, for she is one of the few that can understand Islam’s true teachings about women better than Muslim scholars.

What Paul says about women in his epistles is based on the marital pattern devised by God at the beginning of creation. You seem to forget that Islam follows the same pattern with slight variations by implying that the first woman was created for the man and from the man. Could you please juxtapose Paul’s teachings in his letters - that bother you - with Islamic teachings about women’s rights in the Koran?

But when I see how women and men behave, just watching them, Islam makes a lot of sense to me. It satisfies my dignity and honor while also encouraging respect for other people. And really I think it’s beautiful, and in the end I saw such tremendous insight into mankind that it proved to me again that Islam is a path ordained by God, complete with wisdom and guidance from Him, through His messenger.

Let’s make one point clear: is your dignity satisfied by Islam when you watch men and women behave according to the verses in the Koran or individually and free of religious obligations? How can the male or female behavior convince you that Islam is the true path? It sounds like a man saying, “I am convinced that Christianity is the true path because I like watching Christian women decorate Easter eggs”. In other words, I would like to know if what makes you happy is the content of Islamic rules in the Koran regulating male and female behavior or male and female obedience to such rules at every cost? These are different things!

There is one very famous convert to Islam, in fact, who was initially intrigued specifically by the teachings about women in the Qur’an, and it is what drove her to later convert. That is Yvonne Ridley.

I read the story of a famous Muslim woman in Turkey that decided to defend women’s rights in Islam and started to interpret several Koran verses symbolically to support her arguments. Such an attempt drove her to the lap of a certain fanatic group named the Turkish Hezbollah, which kidnapped and murdered her. May she repose in peace.

 

[GraceDK]

I know not all Moslem men disrespect women and treat them badly… but I got a pretty depressive picture of the situation.

Within 10 days in my very little country (Denmark) we have had 3 rapes… all comitted by Arabian/ Moslem men… two of them took place on the open street… obviously these men thought they were animals… and as consequence they attacked Danish women and raped them. Then another took place here almost in my own back yard where an extremely violent case of rape took place yesterday morning… out in the open by an arabic man who, 40 minutes prior to that, had attemted to rape another Danish woman. I hope they find him and cut of his ****.
Then I just read that another Danish woman was raped yesterday by 2 men in Tyrkey when she was there on vacation… there is something with group rape in this arabian culture… we have seen it several times in Denmark too

Again the Danish people does not have past of being discriminating or racist… on the contrary we are a peaceloving free spirited people… but the Moslem immigrants have done EVERYTHING possible to spit our country in the face by their behaviour… still they victimise themselves even though they are the ones who fill up our prisons and make our streets unsafe, attack our Jews and preach against democracy.

Can you explain the rape thing to me Amy? See its not only Danish women that suffer molestation by Moslem men… also quite alot of Moslem ladies have been killed here in the name of your god… and I dont come up with that but use the words that they said themselves. Obviously their religion has taught them they are beasts…

I have not always been so critical towards your religion but everything I have seen read and heard the last 15 years has just given me and my society an extreme awakening.

Can you understand that we have a problem with Moslem behaviour? Do you recognize and acknowlege this problem ?

So Amy… I hope you come to know Christ as your Lord. He loves women enought to die for them and say that a man must love his wife the same way… indeed he must protect every woman and child against attacks.

 

[AgnosTheist]

But when I see how women and men behave, just watching them, Islam makes a lot of sense to me. It satisfies my dignity and honor while also encouraging respect for other people. And really I think it’s beautiful,

It makes sense to Amy because she’s the type of girl who prefers married men.

 

[inJESUS]

Grace,

mem raping women on the street is not condoned by Islam. These men maybe, just maybe thought that these women are halal for rape because they are immodest and/or because they are non-Muslims ( yes many do think as such) but this is not taught in Islam, as far as i know.

Though i do understand what you’re talking about reputation. They do the same in many places, including Australia …i know this because Lebanese Muslim men have bad reputation over there, which turns bad for Christian men as well and they find themselves obliged to explain that not all Lebanese men are Muslims!

 

[R_not]

Shariah law isn’t the issue so much as a backwards and intolerant culture. Notice that he isn’t afraid of the government, but of his own family’s reaction. And I don’t blame him. My own brother in law (who is Catholic) threatened to call the cops on me for visiting with my family during Christmas.

Ehh… not true. Women cannot drive a car, but they CAN work. They work while being covered, but they do work.

Check out this blog: saudistepfordwife.blogspot.com/2008/03/since-i-cant-write-these-days.html

There are 4 videos, watch the 2nd and 3rd ones–both examples of WORKING SAUDI WOMEN!! One is a journalist, and the other is a doctor–the video even shows her doing in vitro fertilization!!

The journalist has a driver to take her shopping and other places, so it’s not like they are confined to homes because they can’t drive–they just hire drivers. And I’ve never even heard of Saudis castrating anyone, or actual slavery being practiced (buying and selling people) even we know that in the US women are forced into prostitution rings which is pretty much akin to child sex slavery.

Honor killings aren’t even allowed in Islam.

I said that in saudi arabia they are not allowed to drive - and that is true.

I could go on and answer each of your rebuttels it all sounds like to me is that you are unable to go back to the base teachings of each - Jesus and also mohammed. Jesus taught peace and if you don’t like what some follower said - that is find, but Jesus preached love and acceptance. mohammed did not. And the jihadists, the radical jihadists follow the koran and islam to a ‘T’, something that muslims will not admit to, except the jihadists themselves and why do the so called ‘moderates’ not admit to it? Is it ignorance, or is it the deception that the koran and hadiths justify?

I feel sorry for you. You thinking that polygamy is ok. You haven’t even gotten a clue as to what the koran says about women and what even mohammed did during his time - raped, enslaved and passed them around as booty. Yes, ‘honor killings’ are ok in sharia law.

Here is a website that I put in the search words ‘honor killings’ - go pick out some articles and read them.
google.com/cse?cx=013255222075609514560%3Ayu16amghxpi&q=honor+killings

Especially read this one:
jihadwatch.org/archives/019698.php

It happens all over the middle east, and southeast Asia where islam/sharia law is the majority.

I would guess that you believed some other muslims how peaceful islam is and you jumped at it. They used some piece of scripture and you took it and have it in your mind. I would say ‘think’ again and the only thing that I suggest is reading more about what you got yourself into. many women don’t find out until after marriage to muslim males.

Here are some nightmare stories of those able to speak about it:
charismamag.com/display.php?id=319
islam-watch.org/Letters/American-Woman-Married-to-Muslim.htm

the one thing that would stop me from converting are mohammed’s own words and deeds. I could not follow a rapist, enslaver, kidnapper, liar, thief, torturer, and a murderer. His first battle against the Quraysh he started hudna - a peace treaty cannot last longer than 10 years and can be broken at any time and he did it by deception - and he did this after the Quraysh were willing to compromise. he beheaded the men and any boys who had started growing hair and enslaved the women and the girls and passed them around as booty to he and his men. This is not a nice guy. And you pulled one line out of what Paul said who did not do bad deeds after he converted while mohammed did all his bad deeds after he created islam.

this is what you follow and to give excuses for the rest is rather disgusting. You deny things that I wrote but don’t even bother to find out the real truth. What I wrote previously is not only happening, but happened and will happen again. The only reason why you have freedoms is because of our Judeo-Christian socity and once you marry a muslim you will find more what islam is all about.

And you haven’t even read the koran because if you did you would know how screwed up the stories mohammed made of the Bible vs the true Bible. I don’t know how anyone could accept an illiterate’s word that what he said was true

 

[ralphinal]

I shall pick 10 nations, five on each side.

Muslim: Saudi Arabia, Pakestan, Syria, Iran, and Afganistan

Non-Muslim: United States, Ireland, Japan, Isreal, and India

Now, in which of these nations does a woman have the most rights? In whichof these are women considered equil to men in all things but biology? In which of these nations is a woman’s virginity equated to worth? I am not even touching Honor Killings, polygamy and abuse. Which of these according to any human rights group are good and which are bad?

 

[dolphinlove]

Originally Posted by Angelos View Post
How rude and offensive!

LaMar should see this specific post of yours. You are not different from Muslims that declare all non-Muslims that cannot understand Arabic “mere idiots”. It is irrational and unfair of you to claim that this Arabic guy cannot understand your remarks because of his limited English while you pretend to understand the Koran better than ex-Muslims whose mother tongue is Arabic.

Could Mohammad read and write even his native language? NO!

I do not hate hypocrites though, but only hypocricy

Huh? I’m not fluent in Arabic so how could I call someone a mere idiot because they aren’t either?
This post is typical of you, though. To take something I said and then imply I said something sideways of it which would match your agenda you want to prove about Muslims. Get over it, already.

I think from the above post, Angelos was using that as more of a metaphor. He is using this example to display your bigotry towards others who are not fluent in English. He was not saying you would go and call Muslims mere idiots. This is a great example of you taking what someone has said and twisting it around for your own purposes, the way you translate passages in the quran. Angelos, InJesus, Sam etc etc view the quran and decipher the real meaning of it, not take it and add their own twist on things. Amy, my advice to you, please read things slowly so that you can have a clear understanding of them, if you do have trouble, please dont hesitate to ask.
And for the record, Morning star, your English is great!
God bless you for finding the true path to God.

 

[morning_star777]

who told u that shariah law isn’t any issue!i didn’t tell that i am not scared about my countrymen.i just wanted to say that my family&relatives r enough to kill me.but if they wont kill me(after knowing my conversion to christianity)then my countrymen will do this holy(!?)duty!&maybe my govt isn’t an open threat for me cuz they didn’t take sharia law yet.but don’t worry in 20/30years they wil take it i am sure.then they will also become a threat

 

[morning_star777]

thanks dolphinlove that you prayed for me.ya you and all my christian friend pray for me and for those ppl who convert to christianity from islam.cuz only lord jesus can save our life.may lord jesus always be in my heart forever.lord jesus bless all ppl.AMEN

 

[Angelos]

This post is typical of you, though. To take something I said and then imply I said something sideways of it which would match your agenda you want to prove about Muslims. Get over it, already.

Please put the blame on my limited English. You cannot understand my point because you need sophisticated English!

 

[Angelos]

I think from the above post, Angelos was using that as more of a metaphor. He is using this example to display your bigotry towards others who are not fluent in English. He was not saying you would go and call Muslims mere idiots. This is a great example of you taking what someone has said and twisting it around for your own purposes, the way you translate passages in the quran. Angelos, InJesus, Sam etc etc view the quran and decipher the real meaning of it, not take it and add their own twist on things. Amy, my advice to you, please read things slowly so that you can have a clear understanding of them, if you do have trouble, please dont hesitate to ask.
And for the record, Morning star, your English is great!
God bless you for finding the true path to God.

Let’s keep praying for morning star and other people oppressed by the Islamic ideology. :grouphug:

 

[Sam_777]

morning_star777;3669924:

absolutly mr.R_not they will kill me.&i guess the situation off sam_777 is more dangerous than me.cuz he is from saudi arabia.so jesus save all of us.save all ppl.AMEN

Both of you specifically will be in my prayers because your dangers are very real.

Thank you Verisimilitude & morning_star777.

** (Luke 12:4-5):**
“I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.”

 

[Sam_777]

In comparison, there is still Sam-bo who claims that he is still a Muslim.

Yes Sheikha Amy, my flesh is still a Muslim and performing Islamic obligations, but my soul & are with Lord Jesus, I’m not pretending that, that’s actually what is happening with me, and once I convert completely to Christianity in the future, I WILL NOT BE afraid to announce that even while I’m still in Saudi Arabia (which by the way I have no plan of leaving for the time being).

** (Luke 12:4-5):**
“I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.”

 

[Sam_777]

Delta2;3669559:

Can a moman enter in the mosque to pray ?

I really don’t know

Yes, according to Islam. There is even supposed to be a special door for women so they don’t have to mix with the men.

Well Sheikha Amy, that is right to a certain degree, yes there is a special door for women to enter through, but in Saudi Arabia we don’t allow women to always pray in the mosques, we allow them only during Ramadan month (i.e., 1 month out of 12), and even in Ramadan we allow only Maghreb and Isha together with Taraweeh & Midnight prayers, so you can not pray Fajer (morning), Duhur (noon), Aser (after-noon) in the mosque even in Ramadan.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Well Sheikha Amy, that is right to a certain degree, yes there is a special door for women to enter through, but in Saudi Arabia we don’t allow women to always pray in the mosques, we allow them only during Ramadan month (i.e., 1 month out of 12), and even in Ramadan we allow only Maghreb and Isha together with Taraweeh & Midnight prayers, so you can not pray Fajer (morning), Duhur (noon), Aser (after-noon) in the mosque even in Ramadan.

I’m not a sheikha, please stop calling me that.

Women are not to be prevented from visiting the mosques. That is based on AUTHENTIC hadith narrated from UMAR! So people who prevent women from going to mosques are acting against Islam–it’s THAT simple.

And I’ve checked about mosques there. Some don’t allow women (which as I said is AGAINST ISLAM) and some do.