honor of women in islam

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ralphinal said:
This is going to set off the poweder keg, but I have to say it.

If I accept that the Koran is 100% from God, then I must accept Islam.
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That’s how I became Muslim.
If I accept Islam, then I must accept women as property of their father until marriage, when they belong to their husband.
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Not true. As an example, the Qur’an forbids that women be inherited–because property is inherited, and women are not property. We all know that the Arabs of the time abused women–Islam rectified the situation. Women are NOT property in Islam.
I must accept that women should not be aloowed to think on their own or have any control over any aspect of their lives, including when and how they have sex.
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That is really absurd. Of course women are allowed to think on their own, in fact, THEY MUST. Women are commanded to seek knowledge, just like men are. In marriage, both husband and wife need to be respectful and courteous of each other’s needs. Let me repeat that–both the husband and the wife to be respectful and courteous of each other’s needs. That includes the need for sex. If one person has a real need, the other person should try to be respectful and courteous and attempt to satisfy that need. It works both ways.
I must also accept that the West is in error for thinking that women are equal to men and valuable members of society.
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Really? Islam teaches that women are equal to men in many regards, and that they are VITAL members of society, with rights that must be respected.
Women in Islam are better than dogs, as dogs are banned unless working or for portection. Wait, women are only allowed for pleasure or child-bearing. Nevermind…
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This is nonsense–I really had a higher opinion of you than this sort of nonsense would permit.
 
ralphinal said:
I think that inJesus is pointing out that when given a choice, th women rebel against the Islamic codes set forth for them. It is only by force that it has its fullest effect.
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This really is not consistent with the world today. Women around the world, in the Muslim world and in the West and everywhere else, are embracing Islam and the high status of women therein.

When given a choice–in countries like Indonesia, Egypt, even the United States, Muslim women EMBRACE Islamic codes. They uphold and abide by them, as I do myself. I can promise you that I know more Muslim women than you do–and they GLADLY cover themselves, GLADLY accept their roles as wives and mothers, and in most cases they GLADLY pursue higher education as well–all of which is part of Islam. They are not coerced in any direction–because coercion by nature is against Islam, according to the Qur’an.

All around the Muslim world, you will see that women are starting to cover. Young women, not just the elderly. When given the option, Muslims almost ALWAYS choose Shari’ah over secular laws, even the women.

There is not rebellion, except in places where Shari’ah is misapplied, places where the abuse of women persists despite Islam.

You are seeing a resurgence of Islam, globally. How else can you explain that women in the USA for example choose to become Muslim, choose to cover, choose to marry under Islamic law, even foregoing civil contracts? And that the same is happening everywhere there are Muslims?
 
If anyone here is actually interested in what a MUSLIM WOMAN has to say about WOMEN in ISLAM, feel free to ask me, I’m happy to oblige.

It is impossible to convince me that you, non-Muslim men, would know more about Muslim women than myself–a Muslim woman. You shouldn’t believe it either.
 
Sister_Amy said:
If anyone here is actually interested in what a MUSLIM WOMAN has to say about WOMEN in ISLAM, feel free to ask me, I’m happy to oblige.
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We all know that you have nothing but flowery words about muslim women. But what sells these days are the opinions of self-hating muslim women. 😃
 
AgnosTheist said:
We all know that you have nothing but flowery words about muslim women. But what sells these days are the opinions of self-hating muslim women. 😃
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People love sensational propaganda… it’s epidemic.
(name removed by moderator):
Amy I’m prepared to talk about this - my second oldest friend is a devout Muslim and her life with her parents and husband when she was older do not bear resemblance to the partial generalisations and stereotypes bouncing around this thread which are as bad as the accussations I’ve heard labelled at Catholics in regards to how we view women.

I suggest rather than watching senstationlist news and websites about Islamic women that people actually go and talk with them. One gets the feeling here sometimes that FOX news is been held as the final arbitrator of the complex reality of been a woman and Muslim. Is there abuse of woman in Islam and are there passages in the Q’uran that could be used to try and justfiy it -undoubtedly, just as some have tried to quote the Bible for that end within the Christian churches. But using scape-goating and ‘Islams are coming, the enemy of the west is upon us’ type rhetoric I can see room for more balance views than that. There are a few people on here from both the Muslim and Christian traditions who have made asinine remarks about women. We do not need to subscribe to those points of view I think.
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Thanks, JC.
 
Im sure there are a number of happy muslim women out there. but the fact still remains that the most religiously oppressed women out there belong to the muslim world. forced to do a lot of things. forced from not doing a lot of things. just look at saudi arabia. the heart of the muslim world where women are distrusted second rate citizens. :rolleyes:
 
It’d be ridicuouls to say that all Muslim women hate their condition or their outfit ! many actually do believe and embrace it freely and are happy. But if we want to tackle the issue of polygamy, for example, while some accept it, many do not and ask for divorce or most probably will live with it despite themselves…in other words, an order from Allah *to men *sometimes *makes women miserable *and or leads to divorce…here i see everythin but equality in this command. Submitting to husbands, listening to them, taking their advice and vice versa is more than good and leads to the good of the family…but a man coming to the house telling the woman this is my new wife *in the name of Allah *if you don’t like it i divorce you, well i surely do see a man’s world at play where women take the consequences…
 
It’s not a man’s world.

It’s a world that men abuse.

Women are oppressed EVERYWHERE on the planet, whether you say it’s religious or not. Covering up and having sex with your husband isn’t oppression.

Being forced into slavery, pornography, aborted during pregnancy, forced to work and take care of children while husbands are free to work and play–that’s in AMERICA!

So like I said:

It’s not a man’s world.

It’s a world that men abuse.
 
I think I read something in some posts about some news being reported or commented by Europeans and the comment about them was rather negative. Why is that?
Bias does exist in the news on certain topics. American Catholics certainly know it first-handed.
But I thought that there is a difference in how American reporters tell things as compared to not only Europeans, but also Canadians!
Like the American medias have had to reflect the views of the Bush administration when it comes to speaking of Muslim countries of the Middle East: Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Saudi Arabia. (Strange we don’t hear about Yemen, Qatar and Jordania much!) At least, from what I once learned from the Canadian media…
Bias can be used because of the direct economic interests of a country, or on the contrary because one country, or some party within it, or some reprentants of some ideology, wants to distantiate itself from the views of another one (for example, the USA) for one reason or another…
Maybe they tend to bring some bias in the way some news are told? Can we trust certain media 100%? I find it dangerous to fully trust any one of them fully and quite completely, although I wish I could do that with at least one source… (I am not speaking here of the news we get from Catholic missionary sources, though!)
 
Of course, how much we can trust the media is quite another topic in itself! 😃 Yet it has coloured much of what some people said on CAF, hasn’t it! 😉
 
Sister_Amy said:
This really is not consistent with the world today. Women around the world, in the Muslim world and in the West and everywhere else, are embracing Islam and the high status of women therein.
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Women are, but are the men in the Muslim world doing the same?
When given a choice–in countries like Indonesia, Egypt, even the United States, Muslim women EMBRACE Islamic codes. They uphold and abide by them, as I do myself. I can promise you that I know more Muslim women than you do–and they GLADLY cover themselves, GLADLY accept their roles as wives and mothers, and in most cases they GLADLY pursue higher education as well–all of which is part of Islam. They are not coerced in any direction–because coercion by nature is against Islam, according to the Qur’an.
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Actually, I would argue that the west has swung to far the other way. Women are “respected” in the west in some ways, but they also partake in a culture that demeans them without them understanding why. In the West, women want to be respected but some of them see that the culture is not respectful. It is permissive, but not respectful.
All around the Muslim world, you will see that women are starting to cover. Young women, not just the elderly. When given the option, Muslims almost ALWAYS choose Shari’ah over secular laws, even the women.
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But do they choose it because it is a better code of law or because they are commanded to? There is a difference.
There is not rebellion, except in places where Shari’ah is misapplied, places where the abuse of women persists despite Islam.
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It amazes me how Islam can fix so many problems in a country EXCEPT for this one. Seriously, many nations are better off when the people embrace Islam, yet the status of women does not change.
You are seeing a resurgence of Islam, globally. How else can you explain that women in the USA for example choose to become Muslim, choose to cover, choose to marry under Islamic law, even foregoing civil contracts? And that the same is happening everywhere there are Muslims?
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Again. it is a pendulum. SOme women in the west want the rules, some in Islamic lands want the freedom.
 
Sister_Amy said:
That’s how I became Muslim.

Not true. As an example, the Qur’an forbids that women be inherited–because property is inherited, and women are not property. We all know that the Arabs of the time abused women–Islam rectified the situation. Women are NOT property in Islam.

That is really absurd. Of course women are allowed to think on their own, in fact, THEY MUST. Women are commanded to seek knowledge, just like men are. In marriage, both husband and wife need to be respectful and courteous of each other’s needs. Let me repeat that–both the husband and the wife to be respectful and courteous of each other’s needs. That includes the need for sex. If one person has a real need, the other person should try to be respectful and courteous and attempt to satisfy that need. It works both ways.
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It just seems strange to me that so many Muslims hold hard and fast to the Koran EXCEPT when women are involved.

So at what point can a women refuse sex? How often? Let’s say that a woman refuses her husband every day for a year. He can take another wife? He can divorce? Is he allowed to take what he wants?
Really? Islam teaches that women are equal to men in many regards, and that they are VITAL members of society, with rights that must be respected.
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This is nonsense–I really had a higher opinion of you than this sort of nonsense would permit.
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AS I look at that Line, it is not like me. I ask your forgiveness for it. It is very out of character.
 
AgnosTheist said:
And muslim women are the most abused.
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you are 100% correct mr. agnos.i agree with you.actually muslim women are like slaves in islamic countries.slave of their husband.and before marriage slave of their parents(ya parents,because not only father but mother is also abusive some time).
 
believe me, this is rampant in the Middle East as well…immorality is widespread…
 
Exactly. Women went from being housewives to being independant. That was fine. Once the birth control pill was made popular, women could be 100% in control, or so they were told. Almost overnight, women went from being wives and mothers to being “sexually liberated” and free to express themselves. At the same time, the average size of a “pin-up model” went from a size 12 to a size 2. Suddenly, women’s bodies were their enemies. Why? So they could show more of them. And yet, they were not happier.

So many women have a carrier and forgo children then they turn 30 or 40 and realize that they want children but cannot afford to give up the carrier.

The west does not really allow for women to be 100% fulfilled. However, I do not see Islam as doing it either.
 
ralphinal said:
The west does not really allow for women to be 100% fulfilled. However, I do not see Islam as doing it either.
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it depends on what women want. Even in a strict country where not a woman’s ankle can be showed , SA, the latest news are prostitution chains in SA and girls fleeing from homes…and not to mention what Saudi women do outside the kingdom…no matter how strict the rules, those who do not want to obey won’t no matter what…but because the rules are so strict, these countries stay in the shadow, unlike the USA …
 
inJESUS said:
it depends on what women want. Even in a strict country where not a woman’s ankle can be showed , SA, the latest news are prostitution chains in SA and girls fleeing from homes…and not to mention what Saudi women do outside the kingdom…no matter how strict the rules, those who do not want to obey won’t no matter what…but because the rules are so strict, these countries stay in the shadow, unlike the USA …
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I am not surprised. To me, it is a no win situation. You grant people total freedom, they want opression,. You ooppress them, they want to be free.
 
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