honor of women in islam

[ToddM]

P.S. Some of my actual professional sources and experts live in the middle east. That is how I got to talk to them.

They shucked and jived on the authority thing too.

If you don’t commit to a position, it is very easy to shift at will.

If you don’t define what you believe, then no one can call you on it.

If anyone can say what Islam is, then it is not.

Christianity for that matter.

Shuck and jive.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Hey I did not say ‘sex’. In my culture when I was still young enough living under my parents, a simple kiss would do. or holding a girl’s hand.

now marriage is another thing. after you are married, the badge of honor thingie no longer applies. but i can imagine how having many wives is the same thing as having multiple badges of honor. an achievement that he was able to get 2 or more women to share him. what do you think?

 

[morning_star777]

sister amy,why your islam allow a man taking 4 wives?is it equal honor?i have asked the same question many days before but either you didn’t see or ignored my question.so will you answer me what kind of honor it is?if women can’t take more than 1 husband then why men can take 4wives?i guess muhammed have brought a new definition of honor for women.

 

[R_not]

Some of the problems with the muslims on this thread - and any thread - that are born and raised in the West is that they think that what has happened in every other country that sharia law is the law of the land won’t happen in the West. Sorry, but no land where they have migrated to has proven that it has thrived.

And the women are the most in denial. Do they really think that wearing veils, scarves and tents is freedom? Do they really think that them being forced to accept up to 3 other wives is honor? Or that them being segregated because they are considered dirty - is equality?

As for the muslim males who think that women in islam is freedom - well, let them walk around in a veil, accept 3 other men as husbands to one woman - only go somewhere, work, or do anything if the wife approves. It is easy for muslim males to say how free someone is when they are not ever going to be subjected to their rules.

And as for these all encompassing rules and regs to not only control bathroom behavior - it controls sexual/bedroom behavior, and everything else muslims do.

We see in countries where sharia law is relatively new (Southeast Asia) that little girls cannot go to school anymore, that little boys can only learn the koran for all the hours that they spend in a classroom. And what sort of jobs does that prepare those little boys for… jihad.

 

[Sister_Amy]

sister amy,why your islam allow a man taking 4 wives?is it equal honor?i have asked the same question many days before but either you didn’t see or ignored my question.so will you answer me what kind of honor it is?if women can’t take more than 1 husband then why men can take 4wives?i guess muhammed have brought a new definition of honor for women.

Every time I come back this thread has progressed a couple of pages–I only respond to a few of the posts.

But frankly, the last line of your question denotes mockery inherent in your post, suggesting to me that you don’t really care what my answer is since you’ve already made a judgment about it. So I feel like I’m wasting my time to answer you.

First of all, the wisdom is with God. Surely the CREATOR knows what He has Created. God is the Creator, we are the created, so we can expect that His wisdom encompasses our creation, not that we understand ourselves better than does God.

Secondly, a person’s “honor” does not come with marriage. That is the non-Islamic concept your cohorts are trying to push, suggesting that a man with more wives has more honor. Islam doesn’t consider that to be the case.

Thirdly, women are naturally monogamous, and men are naturally polygamous. You’ll find that when you look critically at the behavior of both.

Fourthly, what is “fair” is rather much a matter of opinion. Is it fair for example, to say that I get half the orange, and you get half the orange? Or maybe it is fair for you to take the meat of the orange to eat, and for me to take the peel so I can use the rind in a recipe.

 

[Lapell]

oppression is a no no…and freedom is responsibility, otherwise it becomes a prison.

Know the Truth, it shall set you free

 

[Sister_Amy]

And the women are the most in denial. Do they really think that wearing veils, scarves and tents is freedom? Do they really think that them being forced to accept up to 3 other wives is honor? Or that them being segregated because they are considered dirty - is equality?

Frankly, this is silly. First of all, if a woman decides she wants to cover herself to protect herself from being looked at by strange men (like you, maybe) then who are you to fault her!? Are you saying you have a right to see her face, her hair, her body, or what she wishes to conceal from you!? You don’t have that right, so she is exercising HER right to save her beauty for those close to her, only.

Here are some rules for the man–he must absolutely provide for his wife, 100%, and her children, no exceptions. Every penny they need he is responsible to provide. He is also forced to live in harmony with his wife and treat her with compassion, even if he is angry with her.

Whereas women don’t have to wear a veil all the time like you suggest–only in front of strange men–and they don’t have to accept other wives–they can leave the marriage if they want–and they are allowed to leave the house as well. Rules are in place for a reason, for protection, just like there is a speed limit. You can drive your car but not past a certain speed or you get a ticket, because driving so fast, or running red lights ISN’T SAFE.

And as for these all encompassing rules and regs to not only control bathroom behavior - it controls sexual/bedroom behavior, and everything else muslims do.

Not so much controls, but shows the better way. The healthier way, the cleaner way, the safer way–what is demonstrated by Islam. The USA for example has laws about the bathroom–employees have to wash their hands after going to the bathroom, as part of the health code.

We see in countries where sharia law is relatively new (Southeast Asia) that little girls cannot go to school anymore, that little boys can only learn the koran for all the hours that they spend in a classroom. And what sort of jobs does that prepare those little boys for… jihad.

This is a really dumb statement–in Islam, parents are COMMANDED to teach their children–both boys and girls are entitled to education.

Secondly, every Muslim engages in jihad, but studying Qur’an doesn’t prepare a person for fighting.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Sister_Amy]

And the result is Saudi Arabia & Afghanistan. No thank you.

Ive been living here in the west for over 10 years. I dont think its as bad as the media portrays it. Its not perfect, I know. But people learn and people survive. Count your blessings. Conditions here are at least far better than in most parts of the world, especially the middle east.

That’s entirely a matter of opinion.

you are too naive. A man is honored by what he marries. Even the bible says that. Even us infidels, when we see muslim man legally married to many women (especially when good looking females), we tend to say “WOW, LUCKY HIM”. Honor is how high people look at you.

Once again, you’re simply proving your own disrespect towards the dignity of women!

A man who can afford to have many wives or many mistresses, can also afford to be irresponsible to some of them. Thats reality, my dear.

A man who is unjust to his wives is promised a specific punishment in the Hereafter–that makes it a MAJOR SIN.

you wish. the people who actually know me know how much i respect everyone. my wife & daughter are both crazy about me. Like I said, men have varying levels of self-control. I just happen to have a lot of it. I’m just telling you how our mind works. Think about it.

You’re just proving Islam to me–that Islam is necessary to keep men like yourself from usurping the rights and dignity of women, and treating them like sex objects.

 

[Lapell]

Well, it seems to come down to this: God’s laws are supposed to be respected, but isn’t it true that a very great number among us, at one point or another, seek to have it their way nevertheless? My father, who used to be a policeman, often used to say in an ironic way: “Laws are made to be got round!” Which is what most people do at some point in their lives: they do try to get round the law rules quite everywhere.

 

[Lapell]

And in every country, in every community, every religion and even in atheistic or so-called “lay” laws and rules.

 

[morning_star777]

dear sister amy,i don’t think that men are naturaly polygamous,but some disgusting law made many men polygamous.so pls don’t think that its natural.because in western countries i heard many women also polygamous.so if polygamy is not natural for women then its also not natural for men.anyway what ever.&if you think that answering some of my question is just wasting ur time then don’t answer.but think i know what will be ur next answer

 

[Lapell]

Well, it seems to come down to this: God’s laws are supposed to be respected, but isn’t it true that a very great number among us, at one point or another, seek to have it their way nevertheless? My father, who used to be a policeman, often used to say in an ironic way: “Laws are made to be got round!” Which is what most people do at some point in their lives: they do try to get round the law rules quite everywhere.

Such is the wounded human nature since Adam and Eve… God help us!

 

[AgnosTheist]

That’s entirely a matter of opinion.

denials, denials ehehehe.

you need a wakeup call: you should migrate to the middle east.

Once again, you’re simply proving your own disrespect towards the dignity of women!

Are you saying that a man’s natural desire to have multiple sex partners is a sign of disrespect for the dignity of women? Because that is all i’m trying to tell you.

A man who is unjust to his wives is promised a specific punishment in the Hereafter

so says all religion.

–that makes it a MAJOR SIN.

i think you are making that one up. right?

You’re just proving Islam to me–that Islam is necessary to keep men like yourself from usurping the rights and dignity of women, and treating them like sex objects.

HARHAHARHARHAR! LOL!

Believe it or not, in my marriage, i am the sex object and my wife is the success object. funny how that works out ehehehe!

and i dont mind it at all!

hey my wife is drop-dead gorgeous. its just that she is a lot more interested in sex than i am.

 

[Lapell]

dear sister amy,i don’t think that men are naturaly polygamous,but some disgusting law made many men polygamous.so pls don’t think that its natural.because in western countries i heard many women also polygamous.so if polygamy is not natural for women then its also not natural for men.anyway what ever.&if you think that answering some of my question is just wasting time then don’t answe.because think i know what will be ur next answer

Now,morning_star777, you ought to keep in mind that polygamy is not an invention of Islam, quand même!!! before Abraham, and even after, during the times of the kings of Israel, it existed. It was far from exclusive to Islam. Nowadays, outside Islam, it’s a polygamy of another kind: one partner after the other, especially among the artists, especially those in movies!!! Rare are the exceptions among them… it’s a shame!

 

[AgnosTheist]

morningstar, we men are naturally polygamous. we need a good culture, upbringing & a good religion to help us tame our lustful desires.

 

[Verisimilitude]

You’re just proving Islam to me–that Islam is necessary to keep men like yourself from usurping the rights and dignity of women, and treating them like sex objects.

Neccessary? Usurping? Why should it be the responsibility/liability of the woman to prevent men from sinning and by the nature of the quote the dignity and rights of women are bestowed upon women by men (not God) as long as they do not have lust in their hearts? If you believe women make men sin just by being a woman then yes, Islam is the religion for you.

 

[AgnosTheist]

If you believe women make men sin just by being a woman then yes, Islam is the religion for you.

and thats why she is a muslim. because of her lack of confidence for the dignity of women. she herself doesnt think she deserves a man all for herself. she is settling to be a second wife, against western law. a mistress for short.

 

[morning_star777]

actually mr.lapell i hate polygamy.i really hate it.and in my previous post i just wanted to say that islam permit polygamy&only muslims are curiously doing polygamy in arabian countries.some christians are also doing but as you said,they are just film stars&artist.and its really a shame.i hate polygamy.i also wanted to say that christianity don’t permit polygamy(if i am wrong then correct me pls),but islam permit it for men.

 

[Sister_Amy]

dear sister amy,i don’t think that men are naturaly polygamous,but some disgusting law made many men polygamous.so pls don’t think that its natural.because in western countries i heard many women also polygamous.so if polygamy is not natural for women then its also not natural for men.anyway what ever.&if you think that answering some of my question is just wasting ur time then don’t answer.but think i know what will be ur next answer

Well remember that even Christianity has a history of polygamy–it’s in The bible whether you like it or not. If it’s so unnatural, take it up with God, and ask Him why He let men do it in the Old Testament.

 

[Sister_Amy]

denials, denials ehehehe.

you need a wakeup call: you should migrate to the middle east.

I fully intend to.

Are you saying that a man’s natural desire to have multiple sex partners is a sign of disrespect for the dignity of women? Because that is all i’m trying to tell you.

No, the way you perceive multiple sex partners is disrespectful.

But since you have just said that a man has a natural desire to have multiple sex partners, you proved what I said in reply to morningstar, that men are naturally polygamous. Thanks!

i think you are making that one up. right?

Oh? A major sin in Islam is one which is either explicitly called a major sin (i.e., there is an authentic hadith saying it is a major sin to slander a woman’s honor), or if there is a punishment for it in this life (like death for adultery), or if there is a punishment in the next life. A man who is unjust to his wives is promised a punishment in the next life, a deformity–that makes it a major sin.

Out of courtesy to you, I won’t repeat your personal bedroom behavior.