honor of women in islam

[AgnosTheist]

Why would a man want multiple wives?

When a man is no longer in love with his wife, and he falls in love with another woman. Assuming that he is wealthy enough to support a second family.

 

[ralphinal]

Don’t you think that if Muslims had the power to stop it, that they would have?

Do you think that the influx of weapons from “Christian” countries is helping? The exploitation of wartorn countries? There are many Christians in these same African countries where you see this–it has nothing to do with Islam.

But, Islam is the dominant force in the governements and dominate religions in these areas. How can they not stop it? They can hunt down and kill Christians, but protecting innocent children is not important.

Yes, western Weapons are an issue. So are Eastern block ones. Most of these nations are using Soviet Weapons, not American made ones.

 

[Lapell]

If Islam is from God as Muslims claim, why is there so much confusion and misunderstandings?

Vickie

Hi, Booklover! I am glad you are back and apparently in good shape… Welcome back! Sorry I didn’t tell you earlier…
Now, this question is certainly one worth consideration. How do you tell in Islam who is teaching real Islam from one who does not? Can you rely on a sure authority to make sure Muslims who don’t teach authentic Islam are known as un-authentic and the ones who teach authentic Islam be recognized as such? Or is Islam a bit like the United Church ( a place where all opinions are accepted, even those not in accordance with actual Christian teachings ), but about Islam rather than Christianity?
(Sorry, it’s off-topic, but it’s worth being asked, isn’t it?)

 

[Lapell]

But, Islam is the dominant force in the governements and dominate religions in these areas. How can they not stop it? They can hunt down and kill Christians, but protecting innocent children is not important.

Yes, western Weapons are an issue. So are Eastern block ones. Most of these nations are using Soviet Weapons, not American made ones.

Ah, the USA against the (former) Soviet Union… some would probably think: “Those were the days, my friend!”…

 

[ralphinal]

Ah, the USA against the (former) Soviet Union… some would probably think: “Those were the days, my friend!”…

I long for the days when we were more worried about the Soviet threat than any other. Mutually assured distruction created a form of truce back then.

 

[R_not]

I long for the days when we were more worried about the Soviet threat than any other. Mutually assured distruction created a form of truce back then.

Well with Putin, and his sort of paranoia in full swing, start worrying. They didn’t learn from our mistake in arming the mujahadeen against them and are thinking that arming the muslims against us is a ‘tit for tat’ sort of mentality. It goes back to our ‘leadership’, and theirs, not understanding islam. They want Europe, the USA, and if you think they will leave Russia alone then some have short memories. Chechnya, and other places are rife with muslim violence. Wherever muslims migrate to the violence is not far behind.

Maybe I should put this website in my signature since I use it so often:

article on % of muslims and % of violence:
frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=4DE15EF9-A76C-4DD4-81E2-75683AEED74D

 

[Sister_Amy]

If Islam is from God as Muslims claim, why is there so much confusion and misunderstandings?

Vickie

Differences of opinion do not imply confusion, and misunderstandings. It is to be expected–people have different cultural norms. The differences are part of the mercy of Islam.

 

[Sister_Amy]

It isn’t stopped because it’s sanctioned by Islam same as honor killings!

Islam doesn’t sanction honor killings. It’s murder, condemned in Islam.

Typical Muslim ploy to blame everyone else for their shortcomings!

Vickie

Typical of you to deny culpability.

 

[Sister_Amy]

did Mohammad say that? which koranic or hadith verse?

In a post directed at ralphinal, I explained the sources of Islamic law.

This is a basic principle in Islamic law, how “major sins” are defined.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Ok. that is fair. How do oyu guys decide which set of ideas to follow?

I don’t understand the question–what “sets of ideas” are there?

Let me explain the process: if something is explicitly forbidden in the Qur’an–like eating pork, for example–then that is a ruling. If something is made mandatory (like daily prayer)–then that is a ruling. It’s only based on the Qur’an.

But sometimes there are questions not explicitly answered by the Qur’an, like yours. It’s not even explicitly addressed in ahadith. Why? Because it never came up, as far as I’m aware–such disgusting (indeed perverted) discussions aren’t things which typically come up in Islamic law.

But I can tell you already that your example violates other commands in Islam–which is what a woman needs to cover in front of other women, and that a husband cannot be intimate with one wife on the night of the other wife, and that it possibly involves homosexual behavior which is definitely forbidden.

Why would a man want multiple wives? Honestly, they are not worth the trouble, no offense.

Ask someone else.

Yes, and that is what I am getting at. Are there inherent protections for women within Islamic teachings and laws or is the man final authority over his wife. I am not talking about violence or anything like that.

There are protections for women in Islamic teachings.

If there isn’t any one right answer, how are any answers valid? There must be absolute truth. Somethings are either right or wrong.

Some things are–either right, or wrong, that is. Some things are gray. Sometimes there is ONE right answer. And sometimes there is a difference of opinion. That is called FLEXIBILITY!

The most common story on this topic is some Companions who Muhammad (s) told to go to a certain tribe (Banu Quraydhah), and he told them not to pray the afternoon (asr) prayer until they arrived. Well, that prayer has to be prayed before sunset. So sunset was approaching, what should they do? Should they (a) not pray until they got there, making the prayer late (past its time)? or (b) pray before they got there so that the prayer was in its time, but violating the other instruction which was to not pray it until the arrived. The Companions split into two groups–some prayed then (on time), and some prayed after arriving (late). The group that waited was taking the statement of Muhammad (s) literally, and the group that prayed before arriving took it metaphorically, meaning to hurry. Which group was correct?

The too difficult concept is common among Muslim posters. Does that mean that if it is too difficult to pray as ordered, we don’t have to do it? Are there limits to the too dificult concept?

It isn’t for laypeople–common Muslims–to decide what is too difficult. It is NOT too difficult to pray as ordered. If a person cannot stand, he can sit. If he cannot sit, he can lay down. Laypeople who say it is too difficult are what we call too attached to this world.

 

[Sister_Amy]

When a man is no longer in love with his wife, and he falls in love with another woman. Assuming that he is wealthy enough to support a second family.

Why doesn’t he divorce her if he doesn’t love her? Why keep spending all that money to support her?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Sister Amy,

May I ask you two things:

1. What do you think are the Advantages of Polygamy over Monogamy, for women.

A. Wife has more time to herself.
B. A divorced or widowed woman who doesn’t want to have to fully devote herself to another husband.
C. Less burden from children. Co-wives can help babysit when one is ill, or travelling, or so each can have more time with husband, uninterrupted by the kids.
D. Kids have more siblings to play with.
E. Opportunity for a barren wife to still raise children.
F. Support for a divorced woman or widow with children who hasn’t another kind of support, and wouldn’t be a good candidate for marriage otherwise

1. What do you think are the Disadvantages of Polygamy over Monogamy, for women.

A. Cost to husband of supporting two households–twice the bills (financial cost) and twice the emotions
B. Jealousy between wives.
C. Husband has less mobility, ability to travel and move
D. Husband might have to resolve conflicts with two women instead of just one

 

[AgnosTheist]

In a post directed at ralphinal, I explained the sources of Islamic law.

This is a basic principle in Islamic law, how “major sins” are defined.

“Islamic Law” implies political Islam.

What you are assertin still isnt making sense so far. Can you quote scholars who say that marital injustice is a major sin?

 

[AgnosTheist]

Why doesn’t he divorce her if he doesn’t love her?

i think its the exact reason why most cheaters dont leave their wives:

1. For the sake of the children
2. For the sake of their reputation
3. Out of compassion for their wife
4. Out of respect for their history together.
5. And maybe there still is a little love remaining. But certainly not the romantic type.

 

[Sister_Amy]

“Islamic Law” implies political Islam.

No it doesn’t. Islamic Law (aka SHARI’AH) means just that–Islamic Law. It is comprehensive, including marriage law, acts of worship, transactions, family law, dealing with other people, inheritance… everything.

What you are assertin still isnt making sense so far. Can you quote scholars who say that marital injustice is a major sin?

No. But I can refer you to a bunch who say that it is OBLIGATORY to be fair and just between wives. And to refrain from something that is obligatory is a sin.

islamqa.com/en/ref/13740

 

[Sister_Amy]

i think its the exact reason why most cheaters dont leave their wives:

1. For the sake of the children
2. For the sake of their reputation
3. Out of compassion for their wife
4. Out of respect for their history together.
5. And maybe there still is a little love remaining. But certainly not the romantic type.

So maybe polygamy is better for the wife as well.

 

[ToddM]

religion is culture. i suppose you want a distinction between religious culture and non-religious culture. that depends on the region. for example in north africa the veiling of women is religious culture, but female circumcision is non-religious culture which muslims there sees as tolerable in islam.

I hope that in all your past and future posts you fully and perfectly qualify everything you ever wrote. I wonder if the Muslims are open for a trade " " S. Amy, what is your batting average?

What was that verse about slaying with the jawbone of an ***?

 

[ToddM]

It certainly is something when we are told that quotes from the koran and hadiths are non-authentic - but not given the examples of which ones she speaks of.

But, this is for those muslim women who pretend, or are really, ignorant.

ibaradio.org/Islam/living_islam/LIC.htm

How about in general? I get your point about convenient inclusion and exclusion though. I’ve probably expressed this so much I’m on ignore for half of the threaddies.

 

[ToddM]

Bear with me here–there are about 18 different “sources” of Islamic legislation, total. Four of them are agreed upon, and used by all major schools. Most rulings (laws) are derived from these four: the Qur’an, the Sunnah (i.e., Hadith), the Consensus of Companions/Scholars (ijmaa) , and Legal Analogy (qiyaas). The Qur’an is not a legal code, like a consitution. It is one source of the law–the first, most absolute and binding source, but it isn’t the only one. So something doesn’t have to be expilcitly stated in the Qur’an in order to be law.

For a man to be intimate with both his wives at the same time violates several injunctions. Among them, a certain amount that women are supposed to cover in front of other women, fairness between his wives means giving each her night, and not being intimate with the second during the first’s time, and highly improper behavior for his wives. It’s really kind of sick to even bring this up, but Islamic Law is very clear that such a thing would not be allowed.

First of all, sexual incompatibility is a valid, legitimate reason for divorce. The purpose of polygyny is NOT so that a man would be more sexually satisfied. There are many other reasons it has been allowed, but sexual satisfaction is not one I read about in Islamic sources, so this argument of yours isn’t valid.

Doesn’t that seem to you that he is abusing his right?

I myself travel, without a male companion, and without permission. My dad is afraid for me when I travel, though (he’s not Muslim), because he thinks that people will attack me because I’m wearing a headscarf. Do you understand his sentiment? Today in the USA it’s pretty easy and safe for women to travel alone. It isn’t like that everywhere in the world, and it hasn’t been like that throughout history.

There is scholarly dispute on MANY issues in Islam–which means that there isn’t one right answer. The scholars derive different rulings from different sources, with different priority, and for different situations. The variation is a mercy of Islam, that a person won’t be held to something too difficult for him.

Now we may be getting somewhere, finally.

If there isn’t one right answer, then is Allah’s will divided and confused? Where is truth? Is there such a thing? ‘AHad’ “YAnur”?

Is Allah perfect or not?

PS Thanks for a the increased commitment, especially the effort to be more definitive.

 

[AgnosTheist]

A. Wife has more time to herself.
B. A divorced or widowed woman who doesn’t want to have to fully devote herself to another husband.

That has a lot to do more with convenience than actual partnership.

This reason cannot apply with everyone as there are women out there (LIKE MY WIFE!) who hates having time for herself but would rather prefer the company of her husband in everything, as much as possible. clingers.

C. Less burden from children. Co-wives can help babysit when one is ill, or travelling, or so each can have more time with husband, uninterrupted by the kids.

Yes that is a general advantage.

E. Opportunity for a barren wife to still raise children.

thats very rare.

F. Support for a divorced woman or widow with children who hasn’t another kind of support, and wouldn’t be a good candidate for marriage otherwise

also very rare. as what man would marry a divorce or widow with children, unless she is hot!!!

B. Jealousy between wives.

Yes this is a general disadvantage.

The real issue is weighing the advantages against the disadvantages.

Check out this Muslim Malaysian Movie:

Love for Share:

youtube.com/watch?v=S3Td2qDvK2Q

cinematical.com/2006/04/24/tribeca-review-love-for-share/