Honoring Mary is Biblical, according to the bible.

[JonNC]

The foruth commandment
" you shall honor your mother and your father "
From the nativity narrative
" she gave birth to her firstborn and named him jesus "
Jesus was circumcised, so he was taught to followed the teachings of moses, including the Ten Commandments.
Therefore he followed the fourth commandment to honor his father, God the Father.
Also he honored his mother, Mary. To do otherwise would be to violate the fourth commandment. This would be a sin under God. But Jesus is without sin.
Now, we are to be imitators of christ, according to saint paul. Therefore do what Jesus does. So since he honors Mary, we are to honor Mary.
Mary believed that Jesus is the messiah. So she lives in heaven. And she is not ‘dead’

All the things I have stated are clearly attested to in the bible. I haven’t memorized the "addresses " but I can look them up.
Thus the bible supports honoring Mary.

I absolutely agree. Even the angel honors her by greeting. She is, as Luther said, the “highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ”.
So, the question is, what is sufficient honoring of the Theotokos in your POV? Must one believe all of the CC marian teachings? Am I being disrespectful by not asking her to intercede for me with her son?

Jon

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Hi Jon

I always appreciate your respect for Mary that reverberates through all your charitable and thoughtful posts. I think devotion to Mary should be a personal choice, especially as to the extent. I personally do not pray the rosary very much. I do it occasionally. I also pray to Mary once in a while. I tend to focus all my prayer to Christ and rarely to saints. I think the Catholic Church expects the faithful to believe certain things about Mary like the I.C., the assumption, and the importance of her role, that she’s Mother of the Church.

At times I wonder why some Marian Masses are obligatory myself despite my love for Mary.

I think having a high regard for Mary is crucial and it’s hard to imagine not loving Mary with Christ. They are a packaged deal IMO. One shouldn’t worship Mary or put her on the level of Our Lord, but a love and appreciation for her is important because of her role in Jesus’s birth, ministry, obedience to Him, and her presence throughout His passion, death, resurrection, Pentecost, and onward. She’s a role model par excellance for sure.

I absolutely agree. Even the angel honors her by greeting. She is, as Luther said, the “highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ”.
So, the question is, what is sufficient honoring of the Theotokos in your POV? Must one believe all of the CC marian teachings? Am I being disrespectful by not asking her to intercede for me with her son?

Jon

 

[Palaeologos]

I think having a high regard for Mary is crucial and it’s hard to imagine not loving Mary with Christ. They are a packaged deal IMO. One shouldn’t worship Mary or put her on the level of Our Lord, but a love and appreciation for her is important because of her role in Jesus’s birth, ministry, obedience to Him, and her presence throughout His passion, death, resurrection, Pentecost, and onward. She’s a role model par excellance for sure.

Gurney, I think you’d better check and make sure you’re not Anglican.

Seriously, this Anglo-Catholic prays the Angelus, proudly chants the Libera nos following the Lord’s Prayer in the Mass, and is happy to ask Our Lady for her intercession almost daily. Nowt wrong wi’ that!

 

[JonNC]

=Palaeologos;6389132]Gurney, I think you’d better check and make sure you’re not Anglican.

Strange that you’d say that to my friend, gurney.

Seriously, this Anglo-Catholic prays the Angelus, proudly chants the Libera nos following the Lord’s Prayer in the Mass, and is happy to ask Our Lady for her intercession almost daily. Nowt wrong wi’ that!

I no longer think so, either.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Hi Jon

I always appreciate your respect for Mary that reverberates through all your charitable and thoughtful posts. I think devotion to Mary should be a personal choice, especially as to the extent. I personally do not pray the rosary very much. I do it occasionally. I also pray to Mary once in a while. I tend to focus all my prayer to Christ and rarely to saints. I think the Catholic Church expects the faithful to believe certain things about Mary like the I.C., the assumption, and the importance of her role, that she’s Mother of the Church.

At times I wonder why some Marian Masses are obligatory myself despite my love for Mary.

I think having a high regard for Mary is crucial and it’s hard to imagine not loving Mary with Christ. They are a packaged deal IMO. One shouldn’t worship Mary or put her on the level of Our Lord, but a love and appreciation for her is important because of her role in Jesus’s birth, ministry, obedience to Him, and her presence throughout His passion, death, resurrection, Pentecost, and onward. She’s a role model par excellance for sure.

It is the strength of faith in Christ that marion devotion seems to bring to some folks that impresses me, as you demonstrate here.

Jon

 

[Palaeologos]

It is the strength of faith in Christ that marion devotion seems to bring to some folks that impresses me, as you demonstrate here.

Jon

I think it’s part of the Incarnational emphasis of the Catholic faith. Certain varieties of Protestantism, it seems to me, are awfully close to being Docetic.

 

[T_More]

In Revelation 11:19, is not the temple Jesus (John 2:19-21)? So what is the ark of the covenant? When Elizabeth saw Mary, she says in Luke 1:43, “But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”, almost quoting verbatim 2 Samuel 6:9 when David says, “How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?”. Was not Christ the Word (John 1)? Was not the tablets of the Ten Commandments the Word of God. Revelation 12 goes on to describe a woman, and giving birth to a son (verse 5).

Mary was the first to accept Christ. She is the mother of us all in Christ. She was foretold by God in Genesis 3:15. She gave John his mother and to all of us. What is a family without a mother? She tells us, “Do everything He says.”

 

[Proallen]

I’m glad I don’t, either. I’m glad I don’t depend on your’s, mine or their’s. I’m glad I have the Church that Jesus founded to depend on.

not according to what you have stated so far.

 

[Proallen]

Hi Jon

I always appreciate your respect for Mary that reverberates through all your charitable and thoughtful posts. I think devotion to Mary should be a personal choice, especially as to the extent. I personally do not pray the rosary very much. I do it occasionally. I also pray to Mary once in a while. I tend to focus all my prayer to Christ and rarely to saints. I think the Catholic Church expects the faithful to believe certain things about Mary like the I.C., the assumption, and the importance of her role, that she’s Mother of the Church.

At times I wonder why some Marian Masses are obligatory myself despite my love for Mary.

I think having a high regard for Mary is crucial and it’s hard to imagine not loving Mary with Christ. They are a packaged deal IMO. One shouldn’t worship Mary or put her on the level of Our Lord, but a love and appreciation for her is important because of her role in Jesus’s birth, ministry, obedience to Him, and her presence throughout His passion, death, resurrection, Pentecost, and onward. She’s a role model par excellance for sure.

I think your statement here is a good one and I do agree with you that Mary deserves a high regard. What’s problematic is how the Roman church goes beyond high regard. Statements made by past popes and the titles that the Roman Catholic church gives Mary is borderline worship. In your statement you said that you wonder why marian masses are obligatory. I would as well if it were only about honor and regard.

 

[adstrinity]

This thread caused me to call my mom.

Now, she’s planning on visiting me with the excuse of she is coming to fill out the Census (she’s 2 states away, and doesn’t want me to give the proper information the gov’t wants).

I knew I should have ignored that instinct. I hate this thread.

 

[Ceil-1]

You are only obligated to give the number of people in your household. Anything else is none of their business, and voluntary information.

 

[JonNC]

This thread caused me to call my mom.

Now, she’s planning on visiting me with the excuse of she is coming to fill out the Census (she’s 2 states away, and doesn’t want me to give the proper information the gov’t wants).

I knew I should have ignored that instinct. I hate this thread.

Jon

 

[GeorgeSword]

not according to what you have stated so far.

I’m not quite sure what you mean - are you saying that these are my interpretations, as opposed to those of the Church? Or that the Church is not of God?

 

[Proallen]

I’m not quite sure what you mean - are you saying that these are my interpretations, as opposed to those of the Church? Or that the Church is not of God?

I’m not trying to be crass here, but
I’m saying that there is no evidence that only the Roman Catholic church can correctly interpret Scripture. There is also no evidence to say that they interpret it correctly at any rate.

 

[T_More]

I’m not trying to be crass here, but
I’m saying that there is no evidence that only the Roman Catholic church can correctly interpret Scripture. There is also no evidence to say that they interpret it correctly at any rate.

So who is right? We have alot denominations all claiming alot of very different things. For example, how are we to understand John 6 and later the Lord’s last supper? The early Christians taught by the apostles believed that it was indeed Christ’s body and blood? Christ himself said as much. And yet we have vastly differing view points on this one subject throughout Christianity. Is it important? If not, how do you determine that?

 

[Proallen]

So who is right? We have alot denominations all claiming alot of very different things. For example, how are we to understand John 6 and later the Lord’s last supper? The early Christians taught by the apostles believed that it was indeed Christ’s body and blood? Christ himself said as much. And yet we have vastly differing view points on this one subject throughout Christianity. Is it important? If not, how do you determine that?

Absolutely there are differring beliefs. Some folks believe that it truly is his body and blood because he said it was in several verses in Scripture. Some say it is his body and blood because they believe the clergy alone has the ability to incur a metaphysical change in the bread and wine to be the body and blood of Christ. Which one is Scriptural and which one is correct?

 

[CPA2]

I looked up the Latin word for “honor.” Christians use the Latin word, “latria” to designate the kind of honor or worship due to God alone. There is another Latin word, “dulia” to designate the kind of honor given to the saints. Unfortunately, our English language does not have different words for “honor” with such clear-cut theological meanings.

Mary receives the highest honor (“dulia”) of all the saints. ”Honor” is used in the same way as when we “honor” our mother and father.

 

[CPA2]

Why is so difficult to understand the role of Mary? She is leading us to her Son, Jesus Christ. Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote in Summa “…In all ages, men have been divinely instructed in matter expedient for the salvation of the elect…and in all ages there have been persons possessed of the spirit of prophecy, not for the purpose of announcing new doctrines, but to direct human actions.” I think that Thomas Aquinas is telling us that private prophecy has an important function. Most people need encouragement as an aid to their salvation. Private revelation is a result of divine Providence; however, no one is required to accept private revelation.

God wants to teach us that when He sends Mary as His messenger, He is not sending any ordinary person in His plan for our salvation. God the Father wants us to know that Mary is important. This is apparently a concept that we have trouble understanding and accepting. I guess that is why God keeps sending Mary to us again and again. This is especially true of the last one hundred and fifty two years, starting with Lourdes, France in 1858. Our love and devotion to our Blessed Mother is at a very low level. Perhaps that is why the apparitions at Medjugore, Yugoslavia are going on for so long.

Consecration to Mary is nothing new. It was popularized by Saint Louis de Montforort around the late 1600s and early 1700s in his classic, “A Treatise on the True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin.” All of our last five popes have consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. “Totus tuus Maria” - totally yours Mary, or I am all yours Mary was the motto of our last pope, John Paul II.

Mary delights in her role as our spiritual mother. This role was given to Mary by Jesus at the foot of the cross. Do you remember when Jesus said, son behold your mother; mother, behold your son? Jesus wasn’t just giving Mary to John as his mother; Jesus was giving Mary to the whole world as its spiritual mother.

It is no coincidence that Mary went to visit Elizabeth in the hill country of Judea. David rested there with the Arc of the Covenant for forty days. Mary, the new Arc of the Covenant (she was pregnant with Jesus), stayed with Elizabeth for forty days. Do you remember what Mary said to Elizabeth? She said that henceforth ALL NATIONS SHALL CALL HER BLESSED.

 

[T_More]

Absolutely there are differring beliefs. Some folks believe that it truly is his body and blood because he said it was in several verses in Scripture. Some say it is his body and blood because they believe the clergy alone has the ability to incur a metaphysical change in the bread and wine to be the body and blood of Christ. Which one is Scriptural and which one is correct?

Well, Christ said it was his body and blood. NIV:

Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum."

Who has the authority to consecrate that bread and wine? Christ established a visible Church, did he not?

 

[Proallen]

Well, Christ said it was his body and blood. NIV:

Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum."

Who has the authority to consecrate that bread and wine? Christ established a visible Church, did he not?

Can you show me where in those passages that only Roman or Orthodox clergy can incur the metaphysical change for the bread and wine to change into the body and blood of Christ?? Again, who is correct when interpreting Scripture??