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Pathway2
Guest
what is it with honouring of Mary like our lady of (instead a place)? or even the saints?
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adf417
Guest
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stpurl
Guest
Words like adoration, veneration, worship, even prayer, change meanings, usually through groups wishing to ‘narrow’ the usage to make it (in their opinion) more accurately reflect their own points of view.
We still have perfumes called J’Adore --I adore (you). Are people adoring perfume as a god?
In Britain judges are called “your worship”. Do British people worship their judges as a god?
See what I mean? (and don’t even start me on ‘gay’)
Catholics, whose faith traditions span 2000 years, and whose teachers, theologians, and writers also span those years, wrote words which meant what they meant THEN, and which still mean that even if some contemporary folks have decided to ‘change and narrow’ the meaning.
If I’m reading a book from the late 1890s and the author refers to 'gay times" or the character as being ‘young and gay’, that book and author are referring to a time or person who is HAPPY, not homosexual. That has to be understood, and the word ‘gay’ is NOT to be used to mean homosexual in that book or for that character, because that was not the meaning then, and is still not the meaning NOW for many people who will not allow words to be hijacked at the whim of a few loud noisy Philistines.
So if I’m reading from a work of centuries ago, or a work of contemporary people for whom the word ‘adore’ still reflects a broad definition meaning deep respect and love, but not ‘limited to God alone’, then I must understand and respect that the work or the people using that word mean it to be used in that original sense, and not in a modern, narrow, and nowhere near universal sense of ‘to God alone’.
It really isn’t all that difficult, because we use broad terms every day for all sorts of things, and we simply elaborate on them if others question them, without getting snippy or demanding that others MUST change their views to suit ours.
We still have perfumes called J’Adore --I adore (you). Are people adoring perfume as a god?
In Britain judges are called “your worship”. Do British people worship their judges as a god?
See what I mean? (and don’t even start me on ‘gay’)
Catholics, whose faith traditions span 2000 years, and whose teachers, theologians, and writers also span those years, wrote words which meant what they meant THEN, and which still mean that even if some contemporary folks have decided to ‘change and narrow’ the meaning.
If I’m reading a book from the late 1890s and the author refers to 'gay times" or the character as being ‘young and gay’, that book and author are referring to a time or person who is HAPPY, not homosexual. That has to be understood, and the word ‘gay’ is NOT to be used to mean homosexual in that book or for that character, because that was not the meaning then, and is still not the meaning NOW for many people who will not allow words to be hijacked at the whim of a few loud noisy Philistines.
So if I’m reading from a work of centuries ago, or a work of contemporary people for whom the word ‘adore’ still reflects a broad definition meaning deep respect and love, but not ‘limited to God alone’, then I must understand and respect that the work or the people using that word mean it to be used in that original sense, and not in a modern, narrow, and nowhere near universal sense of ‘to God alone’.
It really isn’t all that difficult, because we use broad terms every day for all sorts of things, and we simply elaborate on them if others question them, without getting snippy or demanding that others MUST change their views to suit ours.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Pathway2.
If by your use of the word “adoration”, you mean what Catholics call “latria”, there isn’t any.
No latria given to mere humans, angels, etc. Period.
I am good with that.
If YOU think a baby is “adorable” and by that YOU mean she is cute, cuddly, etc. (But you do not give this baby “latria”) then I am good with that too.
If you think a brand of chocolate “is to die for” and you do NOT MEAN it is worthy to have “Sacrifice” offered to it (but merely mean this brand of chocolate tastes very good), I would probably suggest a different euphemism (if you asked) but I would not have an issue with you really liking such chocolate.
And I would also NOT ACCUSE you of worshipping the chocolate or any other inanimate object (unless I had more evidence you DID WORSHIP such an object).
God (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) are worthy of and receive latria. And ONLY God gets latria from Catholics and ONLY God is worthy of latria.
Saints in Heaven get “dulia” (doo-lee-ah) or “veneration” though. But NO latria.
(Blessed Virgin Mary receives special veneration for Her unique and special graces given to Her and Her fidelity. The Blessed Virgin Mary receives hyperdulia. St. JOSEPH sometimes is said to receive protodulia.)
Again. ONLY God receives Latria from Catholics.
Any giving of latria to anyone or anything other that God is IDOL-latria or “idolatry”.
Hope this helps.
God bless.
Cathoholic
If by your use of the word “adoration”, you mean what Catholics call “latria”, there isn’t any.
No latria given to mere humans, angels, etc. Period.
I am good with that.
If YOU think a baby is “adorable” and by that YOU mean she is cute, cuddly, etc. (But you do not give this baby “latria”) then I am good with that too.
If you think a brand of chocolate “is to die for” and you do NOT MEAN it is worthy to have “Sacrifice” offered to it (but merely mean this brand of chocolate tastes very good), I would probably suggest a different euphemism (if you asked) but I would not have an issue with you really liking such chocolate.
And I would also NOT ACCUSE you of worshipping the chocolate or any other inanimate object (unless I had more evidence you DID WORSHIP such an object).
God (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) are worthy of and receive latria. And ONLY God gets latria from Catholics and ONLY God is worthy of latria.
Saints in Heaven get “dulia” (doo-lee-ah) or “veneration” though. But NO latria.
(Blessed Virgin Mary receives special veneration for Her unique and special graces given to Her and Her fidelity. The Blessed Virgin Mary receives hyperdulia. St. JOSEPH sometimes is said to receive protodulia.)
Again. ONLY God receives Latria from Catholics.
Any giving of latria to anyone or anything other that God is IDOL-latria or “idolatry”.
Hope this helps.
God bless.
Cathoholic
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Wesrock
Guest
The saints are very much our older siblings. They are wiser, they have finished the race, they are nearer God, they are role models, and they care about us. The Church is not just the people on Earth. There is ONE Church, one Body of Christ, and those of us on Earth, in Purgatory, and in Heaven are part of it. Those in Heaven are like a cloud of witnesses. It pleases God that those in His Church pray for each other and do good deeds for each other and worship together. Therefore it is pleasing to God for the saints in Heaven to pray for us and for us to ask for their prayers, and for us to pray for the souls in purgatory and on Earth. The saints in Heaven are also marvelous works that God has made, and it’s pleasing to Him and honors Him when we recognize and honor them.
We’re sometimes careless with words, but traditionally, the word “adore” is used for worship given to God and “venerate” for honor given to saints. The use of the word “worship” has also evolved in recent years. You used to say you’d worship a king or call a judge “your worship” and nobody were confused by what you meant. People more narrowly use ot for worshipping God in recent years. Also, “to pray” meant to ask, perhaps humbly. It didn’t originate as a word used for God alone.
We’re sometimes careless with words, but traditionally, the word “adore” is used for worship given to God and “venerate” for honor given to saints. The use of the word “worship” has also evolved in recent years. You used to say you’d worship a king or call a judge “your worship” and nobody were confused by what you meant. People more narrowly use ot for worshipping God in recent years. Also, “to pray” meant to ask, perhaps humbly. It didn’t originate as a word used for God alone.
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Pathway2
Guest
I apologies, I should of used the word Honor. thank you.
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AlNg
Guest
I thought it was true that Mary is the co-Redemtrix and that Catholics pray to Mary asking Her to save us?
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Pathway2
Guest
how do you pray to these saint? how does it work?
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adamhovey1988
Guest
I’m sorry, I think you know better and you’re internationally using the wrong terminology. I could be wrong, but this seems like a total troll post.
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stpurl
Guest
Mary is ‘co-Redemptrix’ because she ‘co-operated’ with God in bringing forth Christ Jesus. No Mary, no Jesus.
And IF there were a Catholic praying to Mary asking her help and intercession (as in, speaking for us to God as a mother would speak up for her children), the only way she would be involved is through Jesus. HE saves us, but He permits His saving grace to go ‘through’ anyone. Heck, He permits His grace to go through US to help others, doesn’t He?? Personally, off the top of my head, I cannot think of any prayer or litany to Mary which asks HER to ‘save us’ unless that would be followed by "through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ’.
If you had an altar call, I think you would certainly ‘credit’ the pastor doing the calling with your salvation, wouldn’t you? You might say, “I am saved through the grace of Christ, who used Pastor Jim Bob to move me to come forth and confess Jesus as Lord”. Right?
What exactly is the difference between Christ’s grace operating through Pastor Jim Bob, or through the teaching of your parents, or through the Virgin Mary? It all comes FROM Him, and operates THROUGH them. . .
And IF there were a Catholic praying to Mary asking her help and intercession (as in, speaking for us to God as a mother would speak up for her children), the only way she would be involved is through Jesus. HE saves us, but He permits His saving grace to go ‘through’ anyone. Heck, He permits His grace to go through US to help others, doesn’t He?? Personally, off the top of my head, I cannot think of any prayer or litany to Mary which asks HER to ‘save us’ unless that would be followed by "through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ’.
If you had an altar call, I think you would certainly ‘credit’ the pastor doing the calling with your salvation, wouldn’t you? You might say, “I am saved through the grace of Christ, who used Pastor Jim Bob to move me to come forth and confess Jesus as Lord”. Right?
What exactly is the difference between Christ’s grace operating through Pastor Jim Bob, or through the teaching of your parents, or through the Virgin Mary? It all comes FROM Him, and operates THROUGH them. . .
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Pathway2
Guest
No, I use the wrong word, I am sorry; I should change the title if I can.
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stpurl
Guest
So are we to understand why you are questioning the practice of honoring Mary and the saints?
Isn’t it kind of self-explanatory?
Do you honor your father and mother?
Do you honor those who follow Christ?
Do you think that St. Paul in witnessing about Jesus was doing a good thing? Are you grateful that St. Paul was inspired to teach about Jesus?
Do you honor your pastor? Do you think he or she is a good person who is trying to bring Jesus to the world? Are you grateful for his or her witness?
Isn’t it kind of self-explanatory?
Do you honor your father and mother?
Do you honor those who follow Christ?
Do you think that St. Paul in witnessing about Jesus was doing a good thing? Are you grateful that St. Paul was inspired to teach about Jesus?
Do you honor your pastor? Do you think he or she is a good person who is trying to bring Jesus to the world? Are you grateful for his or her witness?
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Pathway2
Guest
thank you, I made a simple mistake. I was trying to use the word worship and thinking based on how someone describe the honoring of Mary as adoration. it backfire though, thank you for correcting me.
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Pathway2
Guest
thank you for the explanation.
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Limoncello4021
Guest
Pathway, yours is a very simple and common question among non-Catholics. A little study will help you understand. Try the Catholic Catechism if you sincerely want to explore it. Since you are Anglican, you might also want to consider how Anglicanism broke from 1500 years of Catholic tradition in this regard.
We honor Mary and the saints as great role models in our Christian walk, since they model holiness and are very much with us at every step of our lives. For Catholics, those who have died are very much concerned with those on earth: there’s a very thin veil between the two realms, unlike in Protestantism. In the same way you might ask your mother, or your dear friends, for help in all sorts of matters, we also turn to our friends the saints for help. It is really quite practical and simple; not a mystery at all. The mystery for me is why someone might think those who have died and are with God don’t care about us on earth! In fact, they are now perfected in charity, and of far more help to us on earth now they when they were living. This belief is called the “Communion of Saints.”
We honor Mary and the saints as great role models in our Christian walk, since they model holiness and are very much with us at every step of our lives. For Catholics, those who have died are very much concerned with those on earth: there’s a very thin veil between the two realms, unlike in Protestantism. In the same way you might ask your mother, or your dear friends, for help in all sorts of matters, we also turn to our friends the saints for help. It is really quite practical and simple; not a mystery at all. The mystery for me is why someone might think those who have died and are with God don’t care about us on earth! In fact, they are now perfected in charity, and of far more help to us on earth now they when they were living. This belief is called the “Communion of Saints.”
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stpurl
Guest
That’s quite all right. Bless you for asking questions. . .that’s the way you’ll find answers.
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Pathway2
Guest
how do you ask for help by asking the saints?
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Limoncello4021
Guest
You simply talk to them in prayer: Dear Mother Mary, intercede with your Son Jesus so that I may pass my test. St. Michael the Archangel, please protect me today from evil. St. Joseph, patron of travelers, help me be safe driving on these icy roads today. St. Therese, please pray for me that I can treat my annoying co-worker with kindness today. Tony, Tony, turn around, something’s lost that can’t be found (that’s a traditional plea to St. Anthony, patron of lost objects. It always works for me! 
)
Catholics have a very fond relationship with the saints–they are our dear brothers and sisters in the faith! Once you start to get a feel for the reality of the Communion of Saints, it opens a world of love and companionship to you.
)Catholics have a very fond relationship with the saints–they are our dear brothers and sisters in the faith! Once you start to get a feel for the reality of the Communion of Saints, it opens a world of love and companionship to you.
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AlNg
Guest
In Eastern Catholic liturgy:
Пресвятая Богородице спаси нас!
Santíssima Mãe de Deus, salva-nos!
Most Holy Theotokos, save us!
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Pathway2
Guest
any saints to help me with over coming fits of rage?
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