Honoring Women in Islam

[ksamao]

The Blessed Virgin Mary is the only woman that muslims honor and mention in the Quran.

But they don’t see her as who she is: The Immaculate, Perpetual Virgin, Mother of God.

Some day, in the not so distant future, it will be revealed to them that Jesus Christ is the one true Lord and God of all. Then, from the ranks of Islam, many will convert to Christianity and then the heads will start to roll…literally.

In those days whoever kills one of these christian converts will think that they are doing a service to Allah - to God.

The Warning; the Permanent Miracle and the Chastisement. It’s coming…only God knows when.

Gospa Mir.

Passages of the Bible shows that Christ is man and not God :

John 17: that they may know You the only true God and Jesus Christ, who sent him.
Means that the one God and that Christ Hua man of God and the serve.

John 41: seek ye to kill me and that man has told you the truth.
Gospels testify that Jesus peace be upon him Hua not only human beings.

Gospel of John 5: Aakedr that I do nothing of myself as I hear, was convicted and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father who sent me
And he said, but now I go to him who sent me peace So, he is sent from God

Luke 23: Jesus and cried with a loud voice Iaabtah in your hands I commit my spirit
Of these verses in the Bible quote that Christ Alapshra What is not as he believed the Christian Brothers of the Lord. And it is not merely a messenger and prophet of God has been supported by the Holy Spirit
I ask you, brother, and I understand that the Christian Alcht these verses and prudence matter of fact

 

[ksamao]

Healthy dialogue is useful for all

 

[ksamao]

I know that there is a difficulty in the dialogue and communication because of language, but try to understand it as much as possible Matsttian

 

[ksamao]

I thought the title was Honoring Women in Islam. Not Quran 101. What happened to all the points we brought up on the last page?

ksamao you skimmed over those?

Peace, Gary

Thank you Full Cream

 

[ksamao]

Google translator really messed up whatever you wanted to say.

Tell me how you really feel and think about Jews, maybe since this thread is about females, Jewish women.

I told you My language is not strong did not spoil anything until some Matcolon is difficult to understand for me

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Male Circumcision in Islam

Male circumcision is among the rites of Islam and is part of the (in Arabic): fitrah, or the innate disposition and natural character and instinct of the human creation.

As-Shawkani said in his book Nayl al-Awtar (1/184):

“What the Prophet (s.A.w.) means by Fitrah is that if these characteristics are followed by a man, he would be described as a man of Fitrah, which Allah (s.w.t.) has gifted his servants with, and encouraged them to follow, so that they attain a high degree of respectability and dignity.”

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said, “Five are the acts quite akin to fitrah:Circumcision, clipping or shaving the pubes, cutting the nails, plucking or shaving the hair under the armpits and clipping (or shaving) the moustache.” (Reported in Bukhari & Muslim)

Allah ordered Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to follow the religion of Ibrahim (peace be upon him). When Allah says:

“Then We inspired you: ‘Follow the religion of Ibrahim, the upright in Faith’.”

(Qur’an 16:123)

And part of the religion of Ibrahim is circumcision.

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “The Prophet Ibrahim circumcised himself when he was eighty years old and he circumcised himself with an axe.” (Related by Bukhari, Muslim & Ahmad.)

Ibn Abbas (r.a.) was asked “How old were you when the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) died?” He replied, “At that time I had been circumcised. At that time people did not circumcise the boys till they attained the age of puberty (Baligh).” (Bukhari)

Most Fuqaha’ (Islamic Jurists) say that circumcision is obligatory upon the men and this is the opinion of Jumhur (the majority of the scholars). If it were not obligatory, then Prophet Ibrahim (peace be upon him) would not have troubled himself at such a later stage of his life.

The Time for Circumcision:
During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) circumcision was done for boys at the time of their Aqiqah (It’s a traditional celebration for the birth of a child which involves the sacrifice of an animal in thanks to Allah. That’s the short answer) as reported in al-Bayhaq.

Other Ahadith mention it being done later. The details here are not important but it goes without saying that this minor operation is easier on a baby than it is on an older boy. If it is essential, circumcision can be delayed for practical reasons, but it would be sensible to perform circumcision before the boy starts praying regularly due to practical purposes of simplifying Taharah, or being clean.

Abdullah Ibn Jabir (r.a.) and Aisha (r.a.) said:

“The Prophet (peace be upon him) performed the Aqiqah of al-Hasan and al-Hussein (the prophets grandsons) and circumcised them on the 7th. Day.” (Related in al-Bayhaq & Tabarani)

I was not talking about male circumcision.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I think it is going to be nearly impossible to carry on a dialogue with this OP, his language skills are very limited although he can post long portions of the Qur’an.

 

[ksamao]

I was not talking about male circumcision.

I knowyou talking about male circumcision.

What is the correlation between sexually-transmitted diseases and cancer of the cervix?

There is a strong connection between sexually-transmitted diseases and cancer of the cervix. Human papillomavirus types 16 and 18 (as well as other less common HPV types) are causes of precancerous changes in the cervix and cervical cancer.

The strongest predisposing factors in cervical cancer are a history of intercourse at an early age and multiple sexual partners. An HPV vaccine is now available and recommended for all teenaged girls, and when given before the first sexual encounter, it has been shown to be protective against the most common HPV types associated with malignancy. The vaccine presumably prevents cervical cancer associated with these specific infections but is unable to prevent cancers arising from infections with less common HPV types not contained in the vaccine. Therefore, routine screening for precancerous changes in the cervix is still recommended.

What might this relationship between lack of circumcision and cervical cancer mean?

Circumcision may partially protect the mate from cancer of the cervix by removing the foreskin which harbors sexually-transmitted viruses (HPVs) that promote this common form of female cancer.

medicinenet.com/circumcision_the_medical_pros_and_cons/page4.htm

 

[ksamao]

I think it is going to be nearly impossible to carry on a dialogue with this OP, his language skills are very limited although he can post long portions of the Qur’an.

You freedom of choice my friend As I said, my weak, but here the following link in which all questions :

answering-christianity.org/ac.htm

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I knowyou talking about male circumcision.

What is the correlation between sexually-transmitted diseases and cancer of the cervix?

There is a strong connection between sexually-transmitted diseases and cancer of the cervix. Human papillomavirus types 16 and 18 (as well as other less common HPV types) are causes of precancerous changes in the cervix and cervical cancer.

The strongest predisposing factors in cervical cancer are a history of intercourse at an early age and multiple sexual partners. An HPV vaccine is now available and recommended for all teenaged girls, and when given before the first sexual encounter, it has been shown to be protective against the most common HPV types associated with malignancy. The vaccine presumably prevents cervical cancer associated with these specific infections but is unable to prevent cancers arising from infections with less common HPV types not contained in the vaccine. Therefore, routine screening for precancerous changes in the cervix is still recommended.

What might this relationship between lack of circumcision and cervical cancer mean?

Circumcision may partially protect the mate from cancer of the cervix by removing the foreskin which harbors sexually-transmitted viruses (HPVs) that promote this common form of female cancer.

medicinenet.com/circumcision_the_medical_pros_and_cons/page4.htm

And how does that have anything to do with what I just said?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

You freedom of choice my friend As I said, my weak, but here the following link in which all questions :

answering-christianity.org/ac.htm

I checked the site.

Many of the assertions and conclusions it makes about Islam are flatly contradicted by the theology and practices of religious Muslims today (including a vast number of clerics).

Its obviously pro-Islamic propaganda and nothing more.

 

[GaryTaylor]

ksamao I know this is a difficult back and forth conversation. It can be be strained on-line for those who do speak fluently the same language.

Don’t feel attacked, theres a understanding here we are all trying to reach.

Peace, Gary

 

[Abu_Toshiba]

In fact Islam degraded the woman to the lowest level:

Saying what you just said, especially coming from one who claims to have been a ‘muslim’ sounds as hypocrisy !* ‘’ Islam degraded the woman to the lowest level’’ *Don’t you know that the hypocrites will be in the lowest level of Hell, as our Lord has told us (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depth (grade) of the Fire; no helper will you find for them”
[the Noble Qurèan, al-Nisa’ 4:145]

01) Woman can be beaten.
(Quran 4:34):
“…and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them;…”(E)

1. Does the Arabic word ‘daraba’ necessarily mean “violent or intense or repeated striking?” No. Jurists routinely use the expression “daraba al-ma’ `ala wajhihi” - lit. strike water upon the face, for someone accomplishing the first rukn of wudu’ (washing the face). Also in Arabic daraba al-ard “to strike the earth” - as in verse 4:94 {When you strike the earth in the cause of Allah} - means to travel, i.e. walking with a staff.
2. Has the phrase ‘wadribuhunna’ in 4:34 normally been interpreted as a command or has it been interpreted as more of a recommendation? Not even a recommendation. Al-Razi said in his Tafsir on 4:34 (1308/1891 edition 3:222): “Al-Shaf`i said: ‘wa al-darbu mubah, wa al-tarku afdal - and hitting is permitted, but not hitting is preferable.’”

The Prophet expressed astonishment at the cruelty of certain men when he said: “Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?” (Bukhari and Muslim).

The crafty little anti-Islam page on domini.org states: "The Qur’an states: “Righteous women are therefore obedient, And those you fear may be rebellious (nushuz) admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them.” "Some translators add the word lightly after ‘beat them’ in Q 4:34. Others like Mohammed Pickthall and Rodwell translate the word ‘edrebouhon - beat them’ as ‘scourge them’. …] But “a beating without causing injury” (agreed upon) “So the man has the right to beat his rebellious wife as long as that beating is not like the whipping of the slave and will not result in injury.”
Of course the above is false and tendentious but couched in the syrupy style typical of missionaries. The hadith in Muslim states that the Prophet in his Farewell Pilgrimage said: “Lo! My last recommendation to you is that you should TREAT WOMEN WELL. Truly they are your helpmates, and you have no right over them beyond that - EXCEPT IF THEY COMMIT A MANIFEST INDECENCY (fahisha mubina = adultery). If they do, then refuse to share their beds and beat them WITHOUT INDECENT VIOLENCE (fadribuhunna darban ghayra mubarrih*). Then, if they obey you, do not show them hostility any longer. Lo! you have a right over your women and they have a right over you. Your right over your women is that they not allow whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house. While their right over them is that you treat them excellently in their garb and provision.”

02) Female inheritance is half the male and even less than that in some situations.
(Quran 4:11):
“Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females; then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half;…”(E)

What you fail to understand is that at the time of Muhammad (saw) womens had no right of inheritance. so how is this suppose to be an exemple of ‘Islam degrading the status of women’ ? Before the advent of Islam, women had no share in property or wealth and suddenly they have the right ot half of that of the male and this is suppose to be a ‘degradation of the women status’ ? Judging another culture exclusively by the standards of one’s own is known as ethnocentrism. Ethnocentrism leads us to make premature judgments. “They” may not be very good at what we are best at and by evaluating “them” by what we are best at, we miss the many other aspects of life that they often handle more competently than we do. In fact, you also fail to realise that in Islam, man have the OBLIGATION to work and bring money at home and women don’t. Not only in Islam, but almost everywhere around the word, such was the case up until recently. Women had no right of inheritence back then until few years or decades ago, even in the USA (or some states of USA).

 

[Abu_Toshiba]

03) Unlimited polygamy & divorce.
(Quran 4:3):
“…marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four;…”(E)

How did you equate a finite amount with an infinite one ? Are you that ignorant ? I doubt you’re as ignorant as you try to make us believe. You know polygamy wasnt introduced by Islam, and you know Islam doesnt allow unlimited polygamy, even if you didnt, by quoting the verse you did you should have came to the understanding that even thought Islam didnt introduce polygamy, it came to regulate it by setting the maximum to four.

04) Women are majority of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1982:
…I saw Hell also. No such (abominable) sight have I ever seen as that which I saw today; and I observed that most of its inhabitants were women. They said: Messenger of Allah, on what account is it so? He said: For their ingratitude or disbelief (bi-kufraihinna). .(E)

the hadith doesnt end up here, it continues : It was said: Do they disbelieve in Allah? He said: (Not for their disbelief in God) but for their ingratitude to their husbands and ingratitude to kindness. If you were to treat one of them kindly forever, but if she later saw anything (displeasing) in you, she would say: i have never seen any good in you.

So this hadiths serves as a warning and a reminder for these type of women, so that they might avoid becoming as such as those described in that hadith. How is this warning and admonition suppose to be a ‘‘degradation of the womens status’’ ? Had the hadith said that Hell would be filled with a majority of man that involve themselves in such and such type of behaviors, what would your reaction have been ?

05) Women are the fuel of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1926:
…He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell.(E)

To see the hadith in it integrality, read the following:
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: I observed prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the 'Id day. He commenced with prayer before the sermon without Adhan and Iqama. He then stood up leaning on Bilal, and he commanded (them) to be on guard (against evil for the sake of) Allah, and he exhorted (them) on obedience to Him, and he preached to the people and admonished them. He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell. A woman having a dark spot on the cheek stood up and said: Why is it so, Messenger of Allah? He said: For you grumble often and show ingratitude to your spouse. And then they began to give alms out of their ornaments such as their earrings and rings which they threw on to the cloth of Bilal.

and again, How is an admonition suppose to be a ‘degradation of the womens status’ ?

07) The woman disrupt the prayer.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1034:
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: A woman, a donkey and a dog disrupt the prayer, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that. (E)

Again this hadith says that women ‘disrupt’ the prayer, which means that it ‘“will make one’s prayer imperfect” due to the distraction they will cause in people’s hearts. How is this suppose to be a ‘’degradation of womens status’’ ?

 

[Abu_Toshiba]

08) Women are like dogs.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490:
The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, “Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people).” I said, "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs…(E)

Again, How is this suppose to be a ‘’Degradation of womens status’’ ?? This hadith, in other words is all about distraction (things that can distract a man during prayer, which would make his prayer less perfect) , a beautifull women can distract a man during prayer, just like a stinking *** or wild dogg can distract a man during prayer, this does not mean that women and asses/dogs are viewed equal (which is a RIDICULOUS claim) , it’s beauty and the beast, but both can distract a man during prayer.

09) Women are for adults suckling.
Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3424:
A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be eupon him) and said: Messengerof Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? …(E)

Again, may I ask you HOW is this suppose to be a ‘’degradation of womens status’’ ?? I doubt you’re interested in knowing the rulings regarding ‘’suckling’’ … otherwise you would have stumbled upon the Quranic verse that speaks about it, the maximum age for suckling is 2 years old. You sure will find a lot of ‘funny’ things in the hadith, but How is this story which narrates about a specific episode of what happenend in the life of a specific person, ‘Sahla bint Suhail’, suppose to be understood as adressing all womens of all places and all time ? Doesnt it sound as a dishonest-man-at-work-in-his-distortion-of-the-truth ?

The mothers shall give suck to their children for two whole years, (that is) for those (parents) who desire to complete the term of suckling, but the father of the child shall bear the cost of the mother’s food and clothing on a reasonable basis. No person shall have a burden laid on him greater than he can bear. No mother shall be treated unfairly on account of her child, nor father on account of his child. (the Qur’an 2:233)

10) Woman can have sex even during her periods (menses).
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 299:
Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Aswad:
(on the authority of his father) 'Aisha said: “Whenever Allah’s Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an Izar and start fondling her.” 'Aisha added, “None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could.” (E)

Pleaaaaaaaaaaase ? Again, Tell me how is this suppose to be a ‘’degradation of women’s status’’ ?

11) Woman can’t travel alone.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 29, Number 85:
"The Prophet said, “A woman should not travel except with a Dhu-Mahram (her husband or a man with whom that woman cannot marry at all according to the Islamic Jurisprudence), and no man may visit her except in the presence of a Dhu-Mahram.” … (E)

I’m starting to get tired at refuting this RIDICULOUS claim that ‘’Islam degraded the woman to the lowest level’’. Look at this, this is the kind of arguments you bring forth as a support for your claim. Explain to me please what is it that you deem wrong with making it an obligation for the man to escort a women when she travels, and permitting a women to travel only in the presence of a man related to her ? and How is this suppose to be a ‘’degradation of womens status’’ ?

 

[Abu_Toshiba]

12) Woman is deficient in intelligence & religion, and her witness is half the man.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
…I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you."(E)

Let us read the whole hadith:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Once Allah’s Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, “O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” They asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s Apostle ?” He replied, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?” The women replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her religion.”

And now let us ask ourselves ‘’How is this suppose to be a ‘’Degradation of womens status’’ ? (looking for your answer in a near future)

13) Woman is like the shape of a devil.
Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3240:
…The woman advances and retires in the shape of a devil, so when one of you sees a woman, he should come to his wife, for that will repel what he feels in his heart.
(E)

Good, so before trying to use this hadith as a support for your initiale claim that ‘‘Islam degraded the womens statuts to the lowest level’’… please do explain to me what have you uderstood from this hadeeth ? What is the lesson you learned ? what is the morality of this short and little story ? and then please tell me, How is this suppose to be a ‘’degradtion of womens status’’ ?

this is hadith number 3240, right ? now go and read the three thousand and two hundred thirty nine previous hadiths !

 

[Abu_Toshiba]

I agree totally. However, if I understand things correctly, Islam itself actually condemns honor killings. From what I understand, it is a cultural thing only and that Islam condemns it but due to some cultural issues, it is still practiced in some places. People associate it with Islam because it occurs in largely Islamic nations.

As for Sharia Law though, I am strongly opposed to it. I honestly think it is cruel and barbaric. For example, I read an article on a site promoting Islam recently that said that the Quran advocates this method of capital punishment: dropping a large and heavy rock on the person’s head in order to crush their skull. They actually claimed it was merciful because it would be quick and the person would feel little pain. On the contrary, doing such a ridiculous, cruel, and barbaric act would likely result in a severe injury which would be excruciatingly painful. It would not always end in immediate death. It may always end in death but it wouldn’t necessarily always end in immediate death. I have also read that thieves are supposed to have their hands cut off. To me, that is just sickening.

I wish only to know what is the source of your Morality ? does it come from your own desires and whisms (based on what you like and dislike) or does it come from God Almighty ? what do you do with the law of apostasy for exemple ? (I know its in the OT, so I would like you to put yourself in the shoes of one who lives in the time of Moses and I would like you to answer to a simple question, if you were ordered to carry up with what the following passage orders you to, would you ?

6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. --[Deutronomy 13]

 

[Abu_Toshiba]

13 - and said - peace be upon him: - “should not be married Aloim feel very shy, do not marry a virgin until permission.”
They said: O Messenger of Allah! And how is her permission? He said: “If she remains silent,” Bukhari.

Silence does not constitute agreement except in Muhammads mind and those that follow him. Why would u think this true, ksamao?..I’m assuming you’re a woman.

If one comes to me and asks to marry my daughter and she has no objection against it, why is that not a valid consent in your mind ? by the way, have a look at deutronomy 25:5 and see how as opposed to Islam where forced marriage is forbidden (since the women can object to the marriage and has the right to), such is not the case in the Bible (Oh! But that was in the ooooold covenant … we don’t live anymore by the Mosaic law, the only law we have in the new covenant is the law of love or in other words the law-of-what-my-desires-and-whisms-dictates-to-me).

 

[Abu_Toshiba]

Islam has been “behind the times” since Mohammad walked the Earth and in a time warp since the 12th century.

Your ancestors were living in the dark ages and couldn’t even clean themselves properly while at the same time Muhammad (saw) brought light to his people and mankind by setting up a complete exemple of how one should live his life and teaching them how to accomplish even the most basic tasks such as ‘’how to clean their selves’’ in a proper way (and by instructing us even as to how many times a day one has to), or ‘’how to brush their teeths’’ etc. and made it biding on them (and us).

 

[Abu_Toshiba]

Well the best honor for women in the quran is directly from the prophet of Islam.
Mohammad used to have 54 wives, and the smallest of them is Isha that he married her at the age of 6, and made love when she was only 9 !!!

What a monstrous act is that!
And from that day, and in all Islamic countries, men are still marrying little girls (age 6- 17), and from time to time we hear about those cruel stories…

Plus what kind of honoring for women is that when your husband marry at least 3 other ladies plus you, and you can’t do nothing about it!

54 wives ? How very ignorant of you !