Hope

[davidv]

The end result of this love for God is union with God, and death to self. At least all that is selfish and evil in the self. This is not some kind of budhist liberation from self, but a kind of discovery or regeneration of our true self. Selves that Love God above all things, and in that joy love neighbour as ourselves.

This is the purpose of sanctifying grace in our lives. It is to bring us to this union with God.

God bless,
Ut

I found this quote form Pope Benedicts Introduction to Christianity really jump out at me as I have been reading it in parallel with following and participating in this this thread.

To John[the fouth gospels writer], “Son” means being from another; thus, with this word he defines the being of this man as being from another and for other, as a being that is completely open on both sides, knows no reserved area of the mere “I”.

p. 186​

This highlights for me that in the end “Love” retain no “just me” thinking.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.
(1 Corinthians 13)

Great ideas, all! What i think i hear you each saying (and St. Paul appears to agree) is that Lady Love is not just an emotion. It is, as the Boston song of my youth seemed to suggest, “more than a feeling.” She is also a decision to act unselfishly for the benefit of another. Is this correct?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Assuming God is a just God, then it must be more than an emotion, a feeling. We can not give ourselves emotions; albeit, we can do things to enchance, engender or excite but we can not create emotions.

Two: God commanded us to love.

So if God is just and God commands us to love, then we must love with or without feelings.

Now the delima: If all the above is true then love (at least in part) foundationally is not a feeling.

Here is a thought: We all love ourselves, true? How often to we berate ourselves even (sometimes) to the point of suicide? We treat the one we love the most (ourselves) rather poorly and have bad feelings, emotions toward that person. Yet we love him (ourselves).

Maybe Jesus has the answer to your questions, Hamlet:

“My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command.”
(John 13)

Perhaps an act of kindness that i show to someone who hates me is not a feeling of compassion for that enemy as much as a feeling of friendship for Jesus?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I found this quote form Pope Benedicts Introduction to Christianity really jump out at me as I have been reading it in parallel with following and participating in this this thread.
This highlights for me that in the end “Love” retain no “just me” thinking.

If you want to answer, David, what do you think of the suggested definitions of Faith and Hope?

Post 274

 

[davidv]

If you want to answer, David, what do you think of the suggested definitions of Faith and Hope?

Post 274

I believe they will serve for the purposes that we have in mind.

 

[davidv]

Maybe Jesus has the answer to your questions, Hamlet:

“My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command.”(John 13)Perhaps an act of kindness that i show to someone who hates me is not a feeling of compassion for that enemy as much as a feeling of friendship for Jesus?

Perhaps this act is also an act of the will, that despite your enmity, you desire “good” for that person.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Perhaps this act is also an act of the will, that despite your enmity, you desire “good” for that person.

Perhaps.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Let me hazard a guess at the meaning of Love:

3a. Love is an emotion, and a decision to act, and a virtue that God helps to create in the soul or mind of a Catholic or other Christian. Love is non-rational, insofar as it is a feeling of compassion toward another. Love is rational, insofar as it is a reasoned determination to act in the best interest of another. Love feels kindness toward, and decides to do what is best for, others regardless of their love or hatred for the one loving them. An example of Love is a Catholic who prays for those who persecute her and does good to those who spitefully use her. She might love them despite their hatred for her, being motivated by her love for Jesus, who first loved, and continues to love, her.

Please let me know what you think about this definition of Love, David (and anyone else who cares to give his opinion). If this definition of Love, and the previous definitions of Hope and Faith are agreeable to everyone, then i believe our discussion is nearly complete. All we have to do is pit these iron maidens against one another and see which Amazon beauty remains standing!

http://koeiwarriors.co.uk/screenshots/k3/s033.jpg

 

[fhansen]

Let me hazard a guess at the meaning of Love:

3a. Love is an emotion, and a decision to act, and a virtue that God helps to create in the soul or mind of a Catholic or other Christian. Love is non-rational, insofar as it is a feeling of compassion toward another. Love is rational, insofar as it is a reasoned determination to act in the best interest of another. Love feels kindness toward, and decides to do what is best for, others regardless of their love or hatred for the one loving them. An example of Love is a Catholic who prays for those who persecute her and does good to those who spitefully use her. She might love them despite their hatred for her, being motivated by her love for Jesus, who first loved, and continues to love, her.

Please let me know what you think about this definition of Love, David (and anyone else who cares to give his opinion). If this definition of Love, and the previous definitions of Hope and Faith are agreeable to everyone, then i believe our discussion is nearly complete. All we have to do is pit these iron maidens against one another and see which Amazon beauty remains standing!

Disposition might be a good word to help define love. And you alluded to it but maybe you could emphasize loves’ selflessness, the greatest example being a willingness to lay down ones life for another.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Disposition might be a good word to help define love. And you alluded to it but maybe you could emphasize loves’ selflessness, the greatest example being a willingness to lay down ones life for another.

I agree that the words selfless or unselfish should be added.



What definition of disposition do you believe applies?

dis·po·si·tion (dĭs’pə-zĭsh’ən)
n.

1. 
   *]One’s usual mood; temperament: a sweet disposition.
   *]A habitual inclination; a tendency: a disposition to disagree.
   *]A physical property or tendency: a swelling with a disposition to rupture.
   *]The power or liberty to control, direct, or dispose.
   *]Management; control.
   *]Arrangement, positioning, or distribution: a cheerful disposition of colors and textures; a convoy oriented into a north-south disposition.
   *]A final settlement: disposition of the deceased’s property.
   *]An act of disposing; a bestowal or transfer to another.
   *]The power or liberty to control, direct, or dispose.
   *]Management; control.
   
   The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
   Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
   Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

FH:

My guess is you mean (1) or (2) or perhaps both.

 

[fhansen]

FH:

My guess is you mean (1) or (2) or perhaps both.

Yes, (2) is what I had in mind but it’s just a suggestion. It’s hard to come up with words to describe love. “Emotion” is useful but can seem a little weak if only because we tend to mistrust emotions sometimes because they can be contrived or manipulated, etc. But OTOH, as often as not we tend to classify love as a weak quality anyway, valuing machismo or pride-even the ability to not care - as a strength.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Yes, (2) is what I had in mind but it’s just a suggestion. It’s hard to come up with words to describe love. “Emotion” is useful but can seem a little weak if only because we tend to mistrust emotions sometimes because they can be contrived or manipulated, etc. But OTOH, as often as not we tend to classify love as a weak quality anyway, valuing machismo or pride-even the ability to not care - as a strength.

Full day with the wife celebrating Valentine’s Day. Sorry for not responding sooner. Yes, i agree that emotions might deceive. The phrases, “he went into a blind rage” and “she was blinded by love” suggest this. Yet, if anyone proposes this as a weakness, you or i might remark that Love, unlike Hope, is more than a feeling. It is also a conscious decision to treat others as Jesus Himself would treat them. If emotion is Love’s weakness, determination is its strength.

Regarding Love being

a habitual inclination; a tendency

i’d say this is certainly what love is in the case of Christ Himself. One might make a good case that it was also the kind of love expressed by the Catholic Mother Teresa of Calcutta, the Hindu Mahatma Gandhi, and the religious atheist (or Buddhist) Siddhārtha Gautama. However, apart from these and other saints and saint-like people, genuine Love is more rare than habitual. I do not consider myself to habitually love others as Christ loves me, though perhaps i love more like Him than i used to.

For this reason, i’d like you or i to reconsider adding the heavy burden of requiring Lady Love to be a habitual tendency, otherwise, how could you or i ever sincerely say we have her?

 

[fhansen]

Full day with the wife celebrating Valentine’s Day. Sorry for not responding sooner. Yes, i agree that emotions might deceive. The phrases, “he went into a blind rage” and “she was blinded by love” suggest this. Yet, if anyone proposes this as a weakness, you or i might remark that Love, unlike Hope, is more than a feeling. It is also a conscious decision to treat others as Jesus Himself would treat them. If emotion is Love’s weakness, determination is its strength.

Regarding Love being

a habitual inclination; a tendency

i’d say this is certainly what love is in the case of Christ Himself. One might make a good case that it was also the kind of love expressed by the Catholic Mother Teresa of Calcutta, the Hindu Mahatma Gandhi, and the religious atheist (or Buddhist) Siddhārtha Gautama. However, apart from these and other saints and saint-like people, genuine Love is more rare than habitual. I do not consider myself to habitually love others as Christ loves me, though perhaps i love more like Him than i used to.

For this reason, i’d like you or i to reconsider adding the heavy burden of requiring Lady Love to be a habitual tendency, otherwise, how could you or i ever sincerely say we have her?

I think the only way we will fulfill Gods’ will is when we have her perfectly, habitually. But isn’t that a truly worthy goal-impossible for man but achievable in us by God nonetheless?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I think the only way we will fulfill Gods’ will is when we have her perfectly, habitually. But isn’t that a truly worthy goal-impossible for man but achievable in us by God nonetheless?

True. Though you or i cannot do what God wants, that should not us from trying!

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Very well, then, let’s modify our definition of Love. But why stop there? Is not the goal of the Catholic to become habitual in her practice of Faith and Hope as well?

**1b. Faith **is a belief and a virtue the God helps to create in the soul or mind of a Catholic or other Christian. Faith is not an emotion, rather, it is knowledge that something is true or someone is trustworthy, and can be (though might not always be) certainty and complete trust in that truth or person. Faith is usually a reasoned response to evidence (either observed or communicated) and usually a rational (though sometimes an irrational) belief. The desire of a Catholic or other Christian should be to become habitual in her practice of Faith in God. An example of Faith is a Catholic who believes that God is and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him. He might have a rational trust that God exists and that He will answer His prayers, though not always the way he expects.

2b. Hope is an emotion and a virtue that God helps to create in the soul or mind of a Catholic or other Christian. Hope is not rational thought, rather, it is a pleasurable feeling of expectation that some future good will result. Hope is sometimes a non-rational (though not always an irrational) conviction of certainty and even trust in some expected future event or in someone. **The desire of a Catholic or other Christian should be to become habitual in her practice of Hope in God. ** An example of Hope is a Catholic who prays that God will heal her sick daughter and ends her prayer with the words, “Not my will but Thy will be done.” She might have a hopeful trust that God answers prayer and a hopeful expectation (though not a certain one) that God will indeed heal her child.

3a. Love is an emotion, and a decision to act, and a virtue that God helps to create in the soul or mind of a Catholic or other Christian. Love is non-rational, insofar as it is a feeling of compassion toward another. Love is rational, insofar as it is a reasoned determination to act in the best interest of another. Love feels kindness toward, and decides to do what is best for, others regardless of their love or hatred for the one loving them.** The desire of a Catholic or other Christian should be to become habitual in her practice of Love for others and for in God. ** An example of Love is a Catholic who prays for those who persecute her and does good to those who spitefully use her. She might love them despite their hatred for her, being motivated by her love for Jesus, who first loved, and continues to love, her.

If these definitions of our Lady Warriors Faith, Hope and Love are acceptable, we shall let them proceed with the contest. May the best Lady win!

http://blog.yoc2008.com/chainchange...cb320d2df90f19ecfdfc6a2d78f39d84c0f642_m1.jpg

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Correction: That’s (3b) for Love:

1b. Faith is a belief and a virtue the God helps to create in the soul or mind of a Catholic or other Christian. Faith is not an emotion, rather, it is knowledge that something is true or someone is trustworthy, and can be (though might not always be) certainty and complete trust in that truth or person. Faith is usually a reasoned response to evidence (either observed or communicated) and usually a rational (though sometimes an irrational) belief. The desire of a Catholic or other Christian should be to become habitual in her practice of Faith in God. An example of Faith is a Catholic who believes that God is and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him. He might have a rational trust that God exists and that He will answer His prayers, though not always the way he expects.

2b. Hope is an emotion and a virtue that God helps to create in the soul or mind of a Catholic or other Christian. Hope is not rational thought, rather, it is a pleasurable feeling of expectation that some future good will result. Hope is sometimes a non-rational (though not always an irrational) conviction of certainty and even trust in some expected future event or in someone. The desire of a Catholic or other Christian should be to become habitual in her practice of Hope in God. An example of Hope is a Catholic who prays that God will heal her sick daughter and ends her prayer with the words, “Not my will but Thy will be done.” She might have a hopeful trust that God answers prayer and a hopeful expectation (though not a certain one) that God will indeed heal her child.

**3b. Love **is an emotion, and a decision to act, and a virtue that God helps to create in the soul or mind of a Catholic or other Christian. Love is non-rational, insofar as it is a feeling of compassion toward another. Love is rational, insofar as it is a reasoned determination to act in the best interest of another. Love feels kindness toward, and decides to do what is best for, others regardless of their love or hatred for the one loving them. The desire of a Catholic or other Christian should be to become habitual in her practice of Love for others and for in God. An example of Love is a Catholic who prays for those who persecute her and does good to those who spitefully use her. She might love them despite their hatred for her, being motivated by her love for Jesus, who first loved, and continues to love, her.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I suppose that we will never know which of the three is the greatest until we know what it is that makes a virtue great. Anyone have ideas?

 

[onelife1]

I suppose that we will never know which of the three is the greatest until we know what it is that makes a virtue great. Anyone have ideas?

Faith, Hope, and Love… I think virtues are like the Trinity!
God the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit. We can’t have one virtue without the other. Wouldn’t this be the Trinity?

Just something for you all to ponder!

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Faith, Hope, and Love… I think virtues are like the Trinity!
God the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit. We can’t have one virtue without the other. Wouldn’t this be the Trinity?

Just something for you all to ponder!

I’d much rather ask you questions and listen to your answers, but thanks for your opinion!