Horowitz: E-MASK-ulation: How we have been lied to so dramatically about masks

[Ridgerunner]

This is part of the reasons WHY actively infected surgeons, even if they have minor symptoms,
are not allowed to operate in a hospital even if they wear a mask. (they must finish their self-quarantine).

I have said this before. I was told by a physician who works in a large hospital complex that doctors there do not get tested if they get mild symptoms of Covid because they do not want to be removed from work. Among other things, many of them are catching up with patients they couldn’t see before, and consider Covid a lesser risk than the other conditions of their patients. They do wear masks though, and wash their hands a lot.

 

[Cathoholic]

Ridgerunner . . .

. . . doctors there do not get tested if they get mild symptoms of Covid because they do not want to be removed from work.

I believe it.

Other non-physicians I think have started doing the same thing in some cases too.

My wife and I have a friend who was rejected even AFTER her quarantine by people.

This person did not say this, but if they had it over to do again, they probably would have kept quiet (but still would have self-quarantined for two weeks. The devastating part for this person, is being treated like “typhoid mary” AFTER their quarantine was up!).

Their lab-confirmed coronavirus was a mild one and a half-day sore throat.

 

[Pattylt]

Even if masks just slow the spread, I’m willing to keep on slowing it until we have a vaccine.
I am frustrated by people that wear their masks improperly…like on their chin! If you don’t want wear one, then don’t. If you’re in an area with mandatory mask wearing, then wear it properly or get a fine. Just stay away from me!

 

[Cathoholic]

PattyIt . . .

Even if masks just slow the spread, I’m willing to keep on slowing it until we have a vaccine.

And I am good with you choosing to do that.

Some people will probably deciide to “mask-up” even after a potential vaccine.

 

[Cathoholic]

PattyIt . . . .

I am frustrated by people that wear their masks improperly…like on their chin!

Especially when they run around telling people to wear THEIR masks otherwise they will abuse Government power and have them bullied, fined, or arrested.

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California Democrat Governor Newsom “quasi-masked” with his mask below his nose (Photo from Breitbart News here.)

 

[EssentialBeing]

Disposable masks are only slightly effective if used properly & disposed of with care. I did read an article that when used correctly & in conjunction with other measures like physical distancing you increase your chances of not being infected by up to 20% (I can not find the article at the moment but will endevour to source it again) To increase those chances even further why are we not using respirators?, especially in the medical industry.

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Some may think & say it is overkill, like using a sledge hammer to drive home a small nail. But how much is human life worth & what measures will one take to protect all life? I would like to think it is priceless with no boundaries or limits to preservation

 

[meltzerboy2]

So if staving off the virus, that is, flattening the curve, is better than not doing so, then isn’t wearing masks better than not wearing masks?

And, along these lines, why is Trump ignoring this fact by now having indoor rallies without either masks or social distancing?

 

[Ridgerunner]

So if staving off the virus, that is, flattening the curve, is better than not doing so, then isn’t wearing masks better than not wearing masks?

Apparently there never was hospital overcrowding. Remember the huge hospital Trump constructed in NYC that NY wouldn’t use? Remember the ship that nobody used? Flattening the curve seems to be unnecessary.

And, along these lines, why is Trump ignoring this fact by now having indoor rallies without either masks or social distancing?

People can do both at the rallies. But after all the hype, I think a lot of people just don’t believe the alarm anymore or are willing to risk Covid, knowing they’ll be exposed sooner or later if they haven’t already been.

 

[tomarin]

My understanding is that the virus lives in and depends on water droplets - such as the droplets we expel from our mouths when we breath, cough, etc. Perhaps it’s not the size of the virus that’s relevant here but the size of the water droplets it lives in and needs in order to survive.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

A substantial part of the problem with the surgical style masks is the extent to which they are so easily worn improperly. Consider for instance the venting out to either side of the mask: there is still plenty of room for air to move freely in and out of those openings. One can still too easily smell cigarette smoke from the other side of a room even with one of these masks. That’s in addition to the fact that influenza and corona viruses are much too small to be stopped by the filtering in these masks.

About the only good they have that I can see is that they might shield someone’s cough or sneeze. But that forced air outward has to go somewhere and it’s going out the side of those masks. Worse yet, those masks not only give low benefit, they are good at retaining a lot that was breathed out one’s nose and mouth and allowed to fester in the mask. This is especially true when people often reuse the masks for days at a time.

Then there is the fact that none of these surgical masks are medically certified by their manufacturers in any way. Look at the labeling on the boxes one can find at the store. Their manufacturers will not guarantee a single thing about the performance of those masks. And well they shouldn’t, they know the science won’t protect them from liability if they did.

Hence I can only conclude that surgical style masks are little more than theater designed to reassure people. Consider me not reassured in the face of cases that keep happening in locales that have mandated masking.

If people are really truly serious about masking themselves off, they need N95’s at a minimum and indeed that is what we see worn by personnel in hospitals and other medical settings.

 

[Dovekin]

Apparently there never was hospital overcrowding. Remember the huge hospital Trump constructed in NYC that NY wouldn’t use? Remember the ship that nobody used? Flattening the curve seems to be unnecessary.

The field hospital in Central Park was used, though not as much as expected. Besides NY, Houston, Miami, and I think New Orleans came close to 100% full ICUs. If we had not flattened the curve, there would be many more at that dire level.

The article I cited above from NEJM.org summarizes on the importance of universal masking:

Epidemiologic investigations conducted around the world — especially in Asian countries that became accustomed to population-wide masking during the 2003 SARS pandemic — have suggested that there is a strong relationship between public masking and pandemic control.

I do not understand why anyone is opposed to masking, or why they try to treat it lightly. For every skeptic like Horowitz there are probably thousands of trained public health specialists who know the opposite. Talk to one of them if you have doubts.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I do not understand why anyone is opposed to masking, or why they try to treat it lightly. For every skeptic like Horowitz there are probably thousands of trained public health specialists who know the opposite. Talk to one of them if you have doubts.

I think I was clear that I thought masks had a certain amount of utility, but not as plenary as many represent that most masks are. No public health official or medical practitioner is ever going to tell anyone not to take some precautionary move that may have utility, however modest.

There are reasons why people often resist wearing them; some more important than others. While it’s anecdotal, I would say that easily half the people who come to my office do not wear masks. Probably more than half. While it wouldn’t pass muster with health people, I think most people are just tired of the whole alarm. And as more and more people get symptoms and some are even tested and test positive, I think more and more people become aware that it’s not as infectious as many claim, nor as serious for nearly anybody.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

As Dr. Lisa Maragakis, Senior Director of Infection Prevention at Johns Hopkins Medical School explained, flattening the curve means that “ the same large number of patients arrived at the hospital at a slower rate. [emphasis mine]”

That is an explanation of what a particular term means. And in the early days of the pandemic, that was the best we could hope for - to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed. But no one ever said (including your Dr. Lisa Maragakis) that flattening the curve should be the only goal, nor that no further goals are possible, which is the implication of the way you are using this quote.

As an aside, I know we are not talking about N95 masks here, but I found an interesting scientific explanation of how N95 masks do their magic:

 

[Cathoholic]

melterboy2 . . .

then isn’t wearing masks better than not wearing masks?

It might be for somebody.

In other cases it might not be (just like the Government has warned against regarding a “false sense of security” etc.)

My issue is not with wearing masks.

My issue is MANDATING them and/or expecting them to PROTECT YOU from infection (they don’t).

If there is one thing evident from the past few months here on CAF, there are a LOT of people who think this somehow affords them “protection” from getting a virus (they have been a living example against just what Government has warned against).

 

[Cathoholic]

tomarin . . .

Perhaps it’s not the size of the virus that’s relevant here but the size of the water droplets it lives in and needs in order to survive.

That is a fair point tomarin.

But the same concerns still apply.

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Foggy glasses via breathing through a correctly-fitted mask.

 

[JButky]

As has been posted elsewhere…

Masks and Aerosols (Dr. Ted Noel)

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Dr. Ted Noel should watch the video I posted about N95 masks. He would learn something.

 

[EricF]

This is totally anecdotal, but I am sitting in my cardiologist’s office right now. It’s a large regional facility. Literally nobody in here is unmasked. Have they all fallen prey to some hoax or bad science? I am betting not. These people know what they’re doing.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Dollars to donuts the personnel working in the facility are all wearing N95 quality or better.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

CDC Accidentally Admits Cloth Masks Are Not Effective | Principia Scientific Intl.

Quote from the article:

As a result of the disastrous fire season in California, the air quality here is less than stellar. Just today, at my own home in Southern California, everything outside appears brownish-orangish-red as a result of the sun being filtered through the disgusting smoke. As a result of the horrible air quality, the CDC posted an announcement on their Facebook page regarding the use of cloth masks in the areas most effective by smoke.

Remember that “science” that they always like to throw in the face of conservatives? Let’s take a quick look at this info through the lens of actual science. They just told us that smoke particulates are too small to be stopped by a cloth mask. While N95 masks will protect up to 95% of particles, down to .1 microns in size. A quick Google search will tell us that smoke particles and debris are usually .4 to .7 microns in size. According to the CDC, cloth masks are not effective in stopping materials that size.

Another quick Google search will tell us that the Wuhan Virus is .12 microns in size, about a quarter in size of the smoke and fire debris particulate. Even if we factor for the “respiratory droplets” that are allegedly to blame for the spread of coronavirus, those droplets are as small as .5 microns, or as small or smaller than smoke and fire debris particulate. These factors and figures aren’t hidden in some CDC vault that only their scientists are capable of accessing. Yet another quick Google search will show these figures within seconds.

The CDC cannot, on one hand, demand we wear masks because of the prevention of the spread of a disease (or droplets containing the disease) and then tell us that those same masks are ineffective in stopping particles that are bigger than the disease we are trying to prevent.

Essentially saying that only N95’s or better are any good.