Hostility towards Latin

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bmccpy78 said:
While those that would be unhappy with a wider use of Latin and sacred music are a minority in my parish they are a very vocal minority and can be very uncharitable to those that don’t agree with them. He is not looking to offer the whole mass in Latin (except for maybe very solemn occasions such as the triduum) just small parts on occasion angus dei, the consecration, ect. He has received some requests to use the high altar on occasion which he has no problem with, but some parishioners respond with “I wont have that in my parish”. So it sits idle like a lifeless gold adorned slab of marble under a dust covered mosaic encrusted baldacchino, just remnants of a past era. Whats strange is we offer a creole mass for our hatian society and they have no problem with that it’s just the latin.
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I’ve never met a pastor who allowed himself to be controlled by a few parishioners! He should use the limited Latin and let those who can’t stand it find a different parish.
 
I think most people would love the inclusion of the beautiful sacred Latin music if the children and adults could be found who can sing at that level.

I’d be happy if they bought the tape and played it, with the words in English up on the screen.

It’s some of the most beautiful Christian music ever created and sung:

youtube.com/watch?v=B0zzqkNNv0c&feature=related

youtube.com/watch?v=KnPmv9cBwtU&feature=related

For Lenten Masses:

youtube.com/watch?v=uUlFF4A8dm0&feature=related

Rather like when the Litany of Saints is sung at the Easter Vigil Mass!
 
bmccpy78 said:
While those that would be unhappy with a wider use of Latin and sacred music are a minority in my parish they are a very vocal minority and can be very uncharitable to those that don’t agree with them. He is not looking to offer the whole mass in Latin (except for maybe very solemn occasions such as the triduum) just small parts on occasion angus dei, the consecration, ect. He has received some requests to use the high altar on occasion which he has no problem with, but some parishioners respond with “I wont have that in my parish”. So it sits idle like a lifeless gold adorned slab of marble under a dust covered mosaic encrusted baldacchino, just remnants of a past era. Whats strange is we offer a creole mass for our hatian society and they have no problem with that it’s just the latin.
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While I’m not a big fan of a whole Latin Mass…I don’t see what is wrong with gradually introducting people to it with a phrase in Latin here and there?? What that lady did was just plain rude and uncalled for.
 
robert7685 said:
I, for one, have wanted to experience a Traditional Latin Mass since before I was received into the Church earlier this year. I’ve seen it on EWTN, so I already know of the wonder and beauty that it entails.
Even when I see the Novus Ordo masses that they show, the Latin adds so much to it. To me, it elevates the Mass, making it feel as special and sacred as it is supposed to be.
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You might enjoy the talks given by Father Donald Kloster. Just google " Father Donald Kloster Latin Mass Youtube"…and see what you think. I think these talks are over the top…indeed.
 
I don’t understand why people are so hostile to Latin. The Church has done fine the past ~1900 years in Latin. As far as participating I don’t think most people understand the distinction between what the laity does and what the priest does.
 
I don’t understand why people always use the excuse, “I don’t understand Latin.” There are plenty of learning tools out there and since Latin is the official language of the Church and the Second Vatican Council said that Latin should be retained in the Mass, then I would think that learning Latin would be important. I am currently using a self study course. Classes could be arranged at parishes though. Plus, you tend to learn it as you use it at Mass. Saying you don’t understand it, to me, means that a person needs to work on learning Latin or learn about the Mass well enough to know what it going on and being said even if it is in Latin. The reading are alot of times reread in english. I usually read it in my missal while it is being chanted in Latin and then listen without my missal as it is read in english. I get two separate types of (name removed by moderator)ut. Helps with retention.
 
What a Church should do is offer a Latin class that specifically teaches the words found in the Mass.

The meaning and pronunciation of which ever responsorial psalms etc will be said throughout the year.

I’d find that fun and educational.

I’d also like to hear prayers in Hebrew (Our Father).
 
Famule said:
I don’t understand why people always use the excuse, “I don’t understand Latin.”
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Also, the priest isn’t praying to you and me; he’s praying to God. I don’t have to understand what he’s saying at every moment. Sometimes I can hear him, sometimes I cannot. Sometimes I understand what he’s saying, sometimes I don’t. That’s not the point anyway.

But I don’t find it difficult to follow along in a missal, or one of the free missalettes provided at our local TLM.

When I return to the pew after Holy Communion, I will pray the Communion and the Post-Communion propers. Or sometimes I’ve prayed the Communion proper first, and then I get to the Post-Communion after, etc. It’s not vital that I pray them at the same time as the priest. What is important is that he’s praying for us all and I’m praying too in spiritual union with him.
 
Seems to me that a lot of people who don’t like the use of Latin in the Mass have no other reason than pure ethnocentrism. Hey, if it isn’t in MY language, I can’t understand it, don’t want it and cannot in any way participate in it. Boo hoo oh woe is me.I am being excluded by these Latin philes. Remember folks, each and every official Church Document that comes out is in LATIN.

Period. Not English Spanish Swahili or French. Latin. Every prayer is in Latin and each and every Mass can and in my opinion should be prayed in Latin. But thats right, it’s all about participation, whatever that nebulous term actually means, isn’t it? It isn’t about us uniting in prayers with the Priest as we were taught to so many years ago. It s all different now. It is all about me and my feelings.

Get a grip folks. Please
 
An_old_altar_bo said:
Seems to me that a lot of people who don’t like the use of Latin in the Mass have no other reason than pure ethnocentrism. Hey, if it isn’t in MY language, I can’t understand it, don’t want it and cannot in any way participate in it. Boo hoo oh woe is me.I am being excluded by these Latin philes. Remember folks, each and every official Church Document that comes out is in LATIN.

Period. Not English Spanish Swahili or French. Latin. Every prayer is in Latin and each and every Mass can and in my opinion should be prayed in Latin. But thats right, it’s all about participation, whatever that nebulous term actually means, isn’t it? It isn’t about us uniting in prayers with the Priest as we were taught to so many years ago. It s all different now. It is all about me and my feelings.

Get a grip folks. Please
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Interestingly, I feel “excluded” if I attend a Spanish, Italian or German Mass. I have no idea what is going on because I can only follow the visual cues. Whereas, if I attend a Latin Mass, the Mass is exactly the same and understandable whether I attend it in London, Lisbon, Latvia or Laos. I only need to learn one language to unite me to my fellow Catholics. Latin is the universal, unchangeable language.

The irony is that the use of the vernacular - a move, no doubt made in part for the reason of uniting the Church throughout the world - divided it. No longer is the Mass understandable at all places at all times, it has become (intentionally or not) a cultural thing, understood only by those of the culture who speak that particular language and those who learn it.
 
Onegin said:
Interestingly, I feel “excluded” if I attend a Spanish, Italian or German Mass. I have no idea what is going on because I can only follow the visual cues. Whereas, if I attend a Latin Mass, the Mass is exactly the same and understandable whether I attend it in London, Lisbon, Latvia or Laos. I only need to learn one language to unite me to my fellow Catholics. Latin is the universal, unchangeable language.

The irony is that the use of the vernacular - a move, no doubt made in part for the reason of uniting the Church throughout the world - divided it. No longer is the Mass understandable at all places at all times, it has become (intentionally or not) a cultural thing, understood only by those of the culture who speak that particular language and those who learn it.
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👍
 
Latin is still the primary language of worship, just as the assumed norm is still for Holy Mass (I’m talking Novus Ordo and TLM here!) is to be said ad orientem. Hebrew would probably not be acceptable in America, as it is not a commonly used vernacular here. The vernaculars can be used for the whole of Holy Mass as an option, but the norm is Latin! …and side-by-side missals work pretty well for those who can’t read Latin.

The “spirit of Vatican II” decided no more Latin? Really? …wait a minute…those silly documents were written in LATIN! Encouraging the use of Latin! Sure, they allowed the use of the vernaculars. But the norm is Latin!

I think if everyone had an easily available way to learn Latin (maybe over coffee and donuts after Holy Mass each Sunday???), it would be much more appreciated.

…ok…I’m done ranting now.
 
An_old_altar_bo said:
Remember folks, each and every official Church Document that comes out is in LATIN.

Period. Not English Spanish Swahili or French. Latin.
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That’s not at all true. Plenty of official Church documents are in the vernacular only. A couple of obvious examples would be Mit brennender Sorge, issued by Pius XI in German, and Pope Benedict’s recent Pastoral Letter to the bishops of Ireland. Those documents issued in Latin are drafted in the vernacular, often released first in that form, then translated by a Vatican office into Latin.

Yours is a common misconception, though, so don’t worry. 🙂
 
People are afraid of what they do not know. Latin Hymns and prayers are often extremely beautiful.

In churches where there is a projection of hymns onto a screen, I would encourage you to put a vernacular translation next to the Latin.

I had the same problem a couple of years ago. We were going to provide music for a Christmas mass held at a local nursing home. I wanted to sing Adestes Fideles - just the opening verse in Latin, followed by the rest of the hymn in English. Everyone else in the small group of singers were opposed - because they couldn’t be bothered to learn the few latin words:

Adeste, fideles, laeti triumphantes;
Venite, venite in Bethlehem.
Natum videte Regem angelorum.
Venite adoremus, venite adoremus
venite adoremus, Dominum.

However, none of them had any problems learning several new pop-songs in the few days before.
 
Why should the laity understand every word of the Mass, anyway? It’s not a lecture given for their education. This argument also assumes they can’t read. So I suppose the Mass could be totally in English for people who can’t read and who think they have have same dignity as the priest; that they are essential to the Mass.

From what I’ve read, opposition to the reintroduction of the old rite is from a small minority. I recall a priest in London offered to meet with objectors on a certain day to discuss such changes in his church. On the appointed day, no one turned up.
 
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