Hot Chocolate While Fasting

[CHRISTINE77]

I found this to be most interesting: From: mexconnect.com/articles/1469-when-the-church-said-no-to-chocolate

By the late 1600’s, the grand ladies of the land had become so fond of this frothy beverage (Hot Chocolate) that they were accustomed to having it served to them frequently, even in church. As justification for their enjoyment, they referred to its medicinal use, and claimed it prevented fainting and “weakness” during the long ceremonies. One bishop considered it a blatant abuse, and forbad the practice. Drinking chocolate in church obviously broke the fast laws. (Not to mention that so much pleasure must be pagan!) The ladies, in retaliation, simply took themselves and their entourage to another church. A rumor holds that the offending clergyman later died of a cup of poisoned chocolate. The whole affair became a fearful scandal. Eventually, in 1662, Pope Alexander VII put a final solution to the affair when he declared " Liquidum non frangit jejunum." [Liquids (including chocolate) do not break the fast.] It is likely that this decision was based on the fact that chocolate, like so many other herbs, was considered to have medicinal qualities

So is it still okay to drink hot chocolate while we fast?

 

[Cristiano]

I found this to be most interesting: From: mexconnect.com/articles/1469-when-the-church-said-no-to-chocolate

By the late 1600’s, the grand ladies of the land had become so fond of this frothy beverage (Hot Chocolate) that they were accustomed to having it served to them frequently, even in church. As justification for their enjoyment, they referred to its medicinal use, and claimed it prevented fainting and “weakness” during the long ceremonies. One bishop considered it a blatant abuse, and forbad the practice. Drinking chocolate in church obviously broke the fast laws. (Not to mention that so much pleasure must be pagan!) The ladies, in retaliation, simply took themselves and their entourage to another church. A rumor holds that the offending clergyman later died of a cup of poisoned chocolate. The whole affair became a fearful scandal. Eventually, in 1662, Pope Alexander VII put a final solution to the affair when he declared " Liquidum non frangit jejunum." [Liquids (including chocolate) do not break the fast.] It is likely that this decision was based on the fact that chocolate, like so many other herbs, was considered to have medicinal qualities

So is it still okay to drink hot chocolate while we fast?

Do you think that it is acceptable to drink coffee during the fast?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Do you think that it is acceptable to drink coffee during the fast?

I don’t drink coffee, so I don’t know, certainly tea is fine, but hot chocolate seems pretty much like a food to me, especially with marshmallows or whipped cream on it. Actually some of those coffee drinks seem rather food-like too, like the frappachinos and fancy sweet drinks. Seems like dessert to me. Like a milkshake. I consider those things foods, not liquids!

 

[Loml]

I don’t drink coffee, so I don’t know, certainly tea is fine, but hot chocolate seems pretty much like a food to me, especially with marshmallows or whipped cream on it. Actually some of those coffee drinks seem rather food-like too, like the frappachinos and fancy sweet drinks. Seems like dessert to me. Like a milkshake. I consider those things foods, not liquids!

Then don’t put marshmallows or cream in.

Also, hot chocolate can be a luxury so even if its a drink it might not reflect the spirit of self-denial that fasting implies

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Yes, I think it’s a luxury item, like a lot of other so-called liquids.

 

[ChadS]

What is it that the Pope said that doesn’t seem to be understood?

ChadS

 

[Padraig1972]

Except for on sundays (feast days) it is for a luxury item to be concidered (the nordic bishop conference has stated it over here, at least),

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

So is it still okay to drink hot chocolate while we fast?

There are two senses of the word “fast” that I can think of.

The first is that we fast for an hour before receiving communion. I believe the only things allowed are water and medicine. So drinking hot chocolate shortly before communion would break your fast.

The second kind of fasting is done on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. We’re allowed a maximum of one full meal plus two smaller meals if needed. I think hot chocolate could be included in your meal. If you decided to sip hot chocolate all day so that you won’t feel hungry, I think it would eliminate the whole purpose of fasting.

 

[Pug]

So is it still okay to drink hot chocolate while we fast?

Currently milk and juices don’t break the fast for lent. Hot chocolate resembles sweetened, flavored milk, unless you are melting a bar of chocolate and calling it hot chocolate or doing something else elaborate. I don’t drink it as food, though, and I never have. It is a beverage for me, something to warm my fingers and body, like cider.

Only water and medication don’t break the fast for communion.

It is always best to check the practices of your local area, though. You could ask your priest about it. Your confessor or spiritual adviser can answer what is the best practice for you during lent. They are great for customized advice!

 

[thistle]

Fasting on Ash Wednesday does not require giving up on any particular food or drinks. It simply means cutting down the quantity of food and drink you have that day. You are allowed one normal meal and two small meals which together should not exceed one normal meal. What you eat and drink is entirely up to you. Nothing is forbidden.

The same applies to Good Friday except you may not eat meat.

 

[Pug]

Fasting on Ash Wednesday does not require giving up on any particular food or drinks. It simply means cutting down the quantity of food and drink you have that day. You are allowed one normal meal and two small meals which together should not exceed one normal meal. What you eat and drink is entirely up to you. Nothing is forbidden.

The same applies to Good Friday except you may not eat meat.

In case of misunderstanding, let me clarify that one may not have meat on Ash Wednesday, not in USA, at least. It is a day of abstinence (and fast). I’m probably incorrectly reading what you wrote. In case if it is needed, here is canon law:
Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
Also, you and I are interpreting her question differently. I assumed she meant between the normal meal and the two small collations, and not at the meal or collation. Liquids of some sort are allowed, apparently, between the meal and the collations. You could have knocked me over with a feather the first time I found that out.

(again, that may be a USA thing)

 

[thistle]

In case of misunderstanding, let me clarify that one may not have meat on Ash Wednesday, not in USA, at least. It is a day of abstinence (and fast). I’m probably incorrectly reading what you wrote. In case if it is needed, here is canon law:
Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
Also, you and I are interpreting her question differently. I assumed she meant between the normal meal and the two small collations, and not at the meal or collation. Liquids of some sort are allowed, apparently, between the meal and the collations. You could have knocked me over with a feather the first time I found that out.

(again, that may be a USA thing)

You are right. No meat applies to both days.

 

[Padraig1972]

Hm…seems like i was wrong. Sundays are fast days too it seems. Good that i realized this now and not after the 40 days fasting has began.

 

[puzzleannie]

well canon law in another time and place concerning a discipline than can and has been changed many time is interesting, but hardly answers thread title.

Hot chocolate does not sound much like the spirit of penitential fasting, does it?
If you are speaking of the Eucharistic fast then anything but water or medicine breaks the fast. That is if you are talking about here and now.

Hm…seems like i was wrong. Sundays are fast days too it seems. Good that i realized this now and not after the 40 days fasting has began.

where do you get this?
If you are speaking of Lent Sundays have never been fast days even when the week days of Lent were. Since the current discipline is fasting only on Ash Wed. and Good Friday it is moot.

Please publish a link to the bishops’ conference of your country, or to your diocese with the rules where you are, because this is not true here. since this is not the Eastern forum and OP’s example does not relate to that discipline, their practices are not at issue here, either.

again OP’s example seems to address the Eucharistic fast. only water and medicine may be taken in that time (currently only one hour before reception).

If she wants to discuss the Lenten fast the best option is to link the sticky on the spirituality forum which has all you need to know.

 

[Padraig1972]

Hm, sorry. I will need to find it from last year and post somewhat later today as it for 2011 is not ready yet.

But this one i found that seems to apply in general (or have i misunderstood it compltely?)
catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0104fea1.asp

Well, maybe a wrong thread. If so, i apologize for the inconvinience or confusion.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I think when I try to find technicalities around fasting, I am not in the right spirit to do the fast in the first place.

 

[Pug]

I think when I try to find technicalities around fasting, I am not in the right spirit to do the fast in the first place.

For myself, one of the reasons I want to know what is required by fast or abstinence is so that I have the ability to politely accept food when it is offered. For example, even if I won’t eat lard at home during lent, I don’t have to refuse someone’s special flaky crust pie during lent while in public. Although, I might wish I had that excuse…

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Thanks for all the responses. Don’t you think it’s kind of funny that the Pope in the condoned the use of hot chocolate during fasts probably in part because the people were drinking it even during church!

There was a real chocolate (and coffee) craze during the 1600s. Bach even wrote a cantata about his daughter being in love with coffee!

So what I mean is, was this sort of a concession to the chocolate craze by the Pope, or is it a mandate? I myself agree with you who said you could drink it with one of your meals, but not all day long as a liquid.

 

[josephdaniel29]

I think when I try to find technicalities around fasting, I am not in the right spirit to do the fast in the first place.

And there’s your answer.

 

[ChadS]

Thanks for all the responses. Don’t you think it’s kind of funny that the Pope in the condoned the use of hot chocolate during fasts probably in part because the people were drinking it even during church!

There was a real chocolate (and coffee) craze during the 1600s. Bach even wrote a cantata about his daughter being in love with coffee!

So what I mean is, was this sort of a concession to the chocolate craze by the Pope, or is it a mandate? I myself agree with you who said you could drink it with one of your meals, but not all day long as a liquid.

I don’t think it’s a mandate from the Pope to drink hot chocolate, but the Pope determined that drinking hot chocolate didn’t break the rules of the fast. It doesn’t mention anything else about timing of the drink or it’s quantity. In that respect I would think the rules of fasting would apply to hot chocolate in those regards.

ChadS