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Kouyate42
Guest
I’m not too worried…I prefer sea swimming anyway.
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Tarpeian_Rock
Guest
In my wonderfully liberal state there is a chain of women-only health & exercise clubs. An application for a men-only concern was denied because it was discriminatory. Also of historical interest is the destruction of the YMCA system as it was for many decades, offering single-gender exercise, swimming (OK, it was skinny-dipping) and lodging facilities. They are now “family” facilities where - at least in my area - there are women-only swim times, but not men-only.
An earlier poster was correct: this whole issue does, in fact, only work one way.
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Luna_Lovecraft
Guest
Not everywhere. In three cities I kow in my state (California) there are entire work-out facilities that are exclusively male.
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BettyBoop416
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PatriceA
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fpt
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About this topic, i have to clarify my thought:
In this case, Segregation would mean, by principle, no liberty for men and women to be together in public swimming pools because of civil laws or religious laws or de facto law because there are indirect pressures of religious or social groups;
For me, it would be very dangerous to prohibit the access of public swimming pool, by principle, to men and women. Segragation is not a good thing. Then, de facto situation, is also bad.
Separation yes, but if and only if there is no segregation between muslim women and others women.
In muslim religion, is not seperation the first step for:
Prohibiting the two sexs in the public swimming pools, then after the ohter level, segregation between the religions???
Separation why not because liberty, segragation no in the public swimming pool
In the private swimming pool for the public, it is different. the same for private religious club, it is normal because there the religion and it is private. I am also okay for sportive education for kids and teenagers.
In this case, Segregation would mean, by principle, no liberty for men and women to be together in public swimming pools because of civil laws or religious laws or de facto law because there are indirect pressures of religious or social groups;
For me, it would be very dangerous to prohibit the access of public swimming pool, by principle, to men and women. Segragation is not a good thing. Then, de facto situation, is also bad.
Separation yes, but if and only if there is no segregation between muslim women and others women.
In muslim religion, is not seperation the first step for:
Prohibiting the two sexs in the public swimming pools, then after the ohter level, segregation between the religions???
Separation why not because liberty, segragation no in the public swimming pool
In the private swimming pool for the public, it is different. the same for private religious club, it is normal because there the religion and it is private. I am also okay for sportive education for kids and teenagers.
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fpt
Guest
But they didn’t ask for Muslim only women swim time, did they?
Not yet, but in the future, it is a big question?
They asked for women only swim time. Its a modesty issue, not a religious issue.
By defintion, modesty is in link with theological and philosophical approach of the equality and equity between males and females. Islam and Catholicism are so different; these religions are incompatible.
Actually, it is a religious issue
This subject has even been discussed here at CAF from people here in the US that approached the subject because of modesty issues.
Modesty okay, but without strange approach that are not very catholic in the fund because puritanism, victorianism…etc.
May be I am too much liberal or too much of world
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Dale_M
Guest
I am not sure of the laws in the UK (or in France), but I am pretty sure that in the US, a “women’s only” swim time would need to be counterbalanced with a “men’s only” swim time, if the pool were publicly funded. However, getting that balance might require a court challenge.
I don’t mind the idea of a women’s only swim time. When I was young, our city pool had an adults-only time in which all the kids would have to vacate the pool for a period of time. It was annoying, primarily because we couldn’t leave the pool building without re-paying admission and we wanted to spend all afternoon there.
As for a men’s only pool time, I am not sure how popular that might be. Women may prefer to be alone due to modesty issues. I am not sure that is such a big concern to men.
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IsabelG
Guest
I can see you not wanting them to slowly force their rules on the rest of the French, for sure. Personally, it doesn’t sound like a bad idea to me to have women-only time. But I can see reason to fear they are taking over in a slow/sneaky way…
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IsabelG
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Personally, modesty has become a big issue for me. God has led me to change how I dress completely. I admire much of the islamic modest wear and have even checked out some links for modest swimwear. Catholics should have a love of modesty in common with Muslims.
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searching04
Guest
It’s called assimilation, and Muslims do not always want to do that. They want countires to change to them, not the other way around. We have that problem here in the US with several different groups.
Women’s only? As long as it is open to ALL women and it doesn’t turn into a Muslim women only thing.
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fpt
Guest
Could you explain??? When you write “religious orders” you mean catholic orders. But it is different, because it is a private and personnal choice in the private place. It is a religious choice that per se, is demanded by God. Personnal choice.
In the public swimming pool, the funds are coming from citizens, tourists and visitors. Public is public, it is humanity, males and female.
Do you want that now there be sexual segregation, a civil law, a social law, a moral law that, per se, says no males and female in the public swimming pool?
I want to keep my liberty, I want to be able to be with women even in bikini on beach and pools, and to see and to watch them without the bad acception of some intellectual approaches.
Modesty okay, but without strange approach that are not very catholic in the fund because puritanism, victorianism…etc.
May be I am too much liberal or too much of world??? It is a debate. I know for some catholic, bikini is, per se, a bad thing or so sinful see a mortal sin???
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fpt
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The bikini was made by God and given to Eve. Dnd even the first monokini was given to Eve.
More seriously , the teaching of islam about modesty cannot be, by principle, the same than in catholicism. Already in catholicity, there are many debates on this topic for the practical life with the heretic points of view (ism’s words) or with weird interpretations or so strange practice for lay persons.
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fpt
Guest
Are you under the shock when you are going to visit a church where there are many naked bodies on the paintings?
There are a diffirence between erotism and pornography. By definition, pornography is per se sinful and objectively sinful.
But, erotism is diffrent. Per se, it is okay, but in circonstanciis, it can be wrong. The problem is to define the conditions when it is wrong. There is a natural and good erotism, and a bad and sinful erotism.
meltzerboy
New member
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fpt
Guest
At this moment, there is campaign for the election of President of French’s republic.
There is a debate because some muslim women, in reality, some cultual muslim societes (or much better some muslim men who ask for the women??? For me it is a problem, because women would not be capable to ask the question in France) to get special periods for only women in the public swimming pools.
Per se, I am not against if and only if:
the demand is made by women and not by males;
It is not the principle, it is an exception and no change in the future via a direct or indirect pressure on the other people (social religious law or de facto situation);
With Islam, let’s not be naive and let’s be prudent.
According to my informations, Orthodox Jews have not asked.
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Allegra
Guest
Frankly, I think it’s an excellent idea. They could devote one hour a day on weekdays to same-sex swimming. They could alternate between males and females. If there are enough people in your community who would be able to make use of the public facillities with such a rule, then why not? Do people who are concerned with modesty not pay taxes and fees to use the pool? A local pool in my area has adopted a “family swim” in which immodest bathing suits are not allowed at all. (for either gender) I imagine this was initiated by an organized group of Christians who wanted to take their children to the pool that their taxes pay for without them having to view some guys testicles protruding from his two-sizes-too-small speedo or some shrivelled up sun-worshiper laying out with only dental floss keeping her nipples covered. I think they’re on the right track!
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grasscutter
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That could make certain poses a bit challenging.
I actually hesitated quite a bit before typing in the title of the class!- Status