House Approves U.S.-Mexican Border Fence

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Our Laws determine what serves our interests!

Not an illegal’s idea of what our law ought to be to suit them.
 
Ituyu said:
Our national security is not threatened by poor people coming here to work.

I bring it up because the fence is supposed to an answer to our “National Security” and it’s not! We won’t be any more safe with it than we are without it.
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but a country must protect its borders from all threats. Many people from many countries flood through the southern border illegally, be they workers, criminals, terrorists, whatever. A country needs to control and protect … never mind, I’m going not into this argument…
 
Ituyu said:
Well at least you admit that we have no reason to fear these people as a security threat. But, guess what? A fence is only as good as its weakest link. Heard that before? It’s almost comical that we would waste time, resources and personnel saving ourselves from poor people who want to work? We can easily funnel them through a legal process that they would underwrite through fees and weed out undesirables. A fence along our southern border will not net us a “security” benefit without a fence around our northern border and around the rest of the country. I think this really unmasks the true intent of this fence and it has nothing to do with our security.
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I didn’t say they weren’t a security threat, just they weren’t connected to terrorism. A country that can’t control its borders can and often does have security problems, even if the problems aren’t terrorism-related.
 
Ituyu said:
Fine but laws that defy God are unjust laws. God’s law is not secondary to man’s law. Laws that essentially make it lillegal to work for a living goes against God’s natural law. There is absoutely nothing inherently wrong with working for a living. It’s a requirement to provide for one’s self and family. Working as a waiter, farmworker, doctor or businessman are not evil things especially when it serves our interests to have them do the work.
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Yes, laws that defy God are unjust laws, but I fail to see how securing our nation’s borders applies to that.

In Romans, Paul says we are to submit to the authority of government and Jesus says to render to Caesar (or government) the things that are government. That tells me that, barring a Hitler or Stalin, a government’s laws, be it democratic or imperial, are to be obeyed. In obeying the laws of the country we are obeying what Jesus and Paul said.
 
Hello Demascus

“Rich or Poor- a crime is a crime!”

This is true. But crossing our border is not yet a crime. It’s an infraction at a par with a traffic ticket.

“Does taking prayer out of school defy God’s Law?”

No it doesn’t but is it your opinion that it is a good idea?

“How many Mexican Doctors are jumping the border?”

They don’t have to jump the border because we basically hold the door open for them. I’ve had doctors from Europe, Japan, the Phillipines, Canada and Mexico. My current dentist is from Mexico City. He got his license by taking continuing education classes here over a period of about six months and he was allowed to open his own office. He’s the best!

“Our Laws determine what serves our interests!”

Gee, I thought we decided that! Isn’t Immigration Reform a matter that we’re currently deciding?

Should not the laws regarding Abortion be changed in your opinion? Would you still want us to obey the law that gave us the right to Slavery? Would you still want to deprive woment the right to vote?

“Does divorce defy God’s law?”

Yes! Do you think that a 50% divorce rate is a good thing?

"America is NOT a Theocracy.

Democracy.

Get a dictionary."

Well the Church gave up the idea of running the government. I’ve never supported such a thing! Do the laws regarding stealing (Thou shalt not Steal) and perjury (Thou Shalt not Lie) make us a Theocracy?
 
LRThunder said:
Yes, laws that defy God are unjust laws, but I fail to see how securing our nation’s borders applies to that.

In Romans, Paul says we are to submit to the authority of government and Jesus says to render to Caesar (or government) the things that are government. That tells me that, barring a Hitler or Stalin, a government’s laws, be it democratic or imperial, are to be obeyed. In obeying the laws of the country we are obeying what Jesus and Paul said.
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You may want research the topic of Catholic Social Teaching. Our Popes have been quite clear on the teachings about our neighbors/ immigrants, especially the poor. These things don’t seem to matter to most but if you would like I can send you the urls privately.
 
Lance said:
IMO this is just white wash. No party either the Dems or Reps are serious about the problem. We have an illegal woman in Chicago who was scheduled for deportation over a month ago, she is holed up in a store front church and claiming sanctuary. She was working at O’Hare using a fake Social security card and has a long history of being deported and then returning illegally. She says just because her son is an American she should be allowed to stay. She never married the childs father and it looks like the only reason she had him was so she would have a reson to stay in the US. Why is she still here? No one in government wants to really solve the problem, they just hope we won’t notice that they are not doing anything to solve it.
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Sadly, and misguidedly, I think, many Americans don’t want them to solve the problem It’s a come one, come all mentality. They just never offer any suggestions as to how to care for these people once they are here.
 
Ituyu said:
Well at least you admit that we have no reason to fear these people as a security threat. But, guess what? A fence is only as good as its weakest link. Heard that before? It’s almost comical that we would waste time, resources and personnel saving ourselves from poor people who want to work? We can easily funnel them through a legal process that they would underwrite through fees and weed out undesirables. A fence along our southern border will not net us a “security” benefit without a fence around our northern border and around the rest of the country. I think this really unmasks the true intent of this fence and it has nothing to do with our security.
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No reason to fear? Even if 2% of those that enter illegally fall into the following categories this situation poses a danger to law abiding citizens.

Drug dealers and their enforcers.
People from around the world entering without our visas. Arabs and other third world people.
Prostitution and the STD’s it brings with it.
Animals brought in with possible disease when smuggling of CETIES endangered species.
Child molesters, pornographers and rapists (read the news reports)
 
Several posters hav already said it. Immigration across our southern border has nothing to do with 9/11, and neither party is really serious about this.
Th US is going to spend a lot of money on our own version of the Berlin Wall, which didnt work either.
Illegal drug trafficking and poor people seeking employment are not the same thing. By all means, let’s get serious about the drug problem, which does neither country any good.
 
Ituyu said:
You may want research the topic of Catholic Social Teaching. Our Popes have been quite clear on the teachings about our neighbors/ immigrants, especially the poor. These things don’t seem to matter to most but if you would like I can send you the urls privately.
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I have no problem with helping the poor, but we shouldn’t encourage them to disobey the law. Can’t we help them without violating legitimate laws?
 
LRThunder said:
I have no problem with helping the poor, but we shouldn’t encourage them to disobey the law. Can’t we help them without violating legitimate laws?
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Absolutely! Just make our system a realistic one. We’ve underestimated our need for unskilled labor by at least the number of people who found jobs by coming over our southern border. A legal option for them would not only be the safest but the cheapest. The legal option for us would not only allow us to weed out undesirables, it allows us to focus our resources on the real culprits. That would save us money and make us more secure.
 
KathleenElsie said:
No reason to fear? Even if 2% of those that enter illegally fall into the following categories this situation poses a danger to law abiding citizens.

Drug dealers and their enforcers.
People from around the world entering without our visas. Arabs and other third world people.
Prostitution and the STD’s it brings with it.
Animals brought in with possible disease when smuggling of CETIES endangered species.
Child molesters, pornographers and rapists (read the news reports)
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All of the above are weeded out by the legalization process. That has always been part of the application process. Our quotas were just far too low. The mass reduction in traffic across our border would make it much easier to track drug traffic and other felons. They are a virtual handful when compared to the 11 million or more that crossed without permission.
 
reading at the posts, it seems to me that the border fence remains an example of misplaced resources.

Solving a problem requires not mixing it with something else. There is one issue concerning people who come looking for jobs and a better life and who, at least to a certain extent, contribute to fulfill an existing need in the US as many of them find jobs nobody else wants to do. Another, very different issue, is that of criminals/terrorists trying to enter the US.

The answer to every problem, to be effective, needs to be specific. the border fence is an inadequate response to each one of them. Is a kind of window dressing for politicians to try to convince voters they are doing something. The border fence is an easy way fo parading and ask for votes.

It is the responsibility for voters to reclaim effective and just measures and not to be satisfied with “cosmetic” (and nonetheless, in this case, extremelly damaging) measures.
 
¶And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother’s keeper?

Genesis 4:9

Matthew 25:33 *And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 *Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 *For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:
36 *Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.
37 *Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 *And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee?
39 *Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee?
40 *And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.
41 *Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 *For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink.
43 *I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me.
44 *Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee?
45 *Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.
46 *And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

Who is my brother, the one I choose or the one the Lord placed in my way? Catholic means “Universal”? Are we truly “Catholics”?
 
Ituyu said:
All of the above are weeded out by the legalization process. That has always been part of the application process. Our quotas were just far too low. The mass reduction in traffic across our border would make it much easier to track drug traffic and other felons. They are a virtual handful when compared to the 11 million or more that crossed without permission.
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The amnesty of the 1980’s was a major mistake and caused severe damage to the US. An unintended result was to send a very wrong message that just encouraged massive illegal immigration.

To do that again would be a disaster. We must avoid any sort of amnesty or legalization at all costs.

To solve the illegal immigration issue we need a much more sophisticated and comprehensive approach. One that will greatly reduce or eliminate new illegal entries to the US and also encourage the illegal immigrants already here to leave the US and move elsewhere.

Our law enforcement can then more easily focus on the criminals

Congress is working on some good ideas that will likely achieve these ends. I just hope they will at least start the process in a timely manner.
 
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