House problem: do I inform the buyer of a defect?

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otrrl

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My elderly friend (94) sold his house recently and he sold it to the buyer in an “as is” condition, as he explained to me.

Now, the 60-year old house is in great shape, although a new buyer might want to put in more energy efficient windows, a new thermostat, etc. But, there is a problem with a lack of insulation in the crawl space of the house. The evidence of that is there are icicles forming at the rain gutters in the winter, even at temps well-below freezing. There is obviously heat escaping, melting snow on the roof, which runs down and forms icicles.

I had an icicle problem last winter (and for the last 50 years). 10 years ago, I put in some insulation which did not stop the problem. I discovered a gap that was allowing heat to escape to melt the snow on the roof and give me the same icicle problem that my friend had. Well, I fixed it – the fix worked, much to my amazement – no icicles.

So…I told him about the results I got. But, he adamantly declined to “put any more money” into his house, to fix the problem. Not only is he elderly, but he has some kind of long-term cancer problem. So, he did not have the motivation to fix the insulation problem.

In short, do I tell the new home owner about the problem? or, do I just let nature take its course (which means higher heating bills for the owner, in the long run)?

Scripture says if we see something good that we can do, we should do it.
 
It would be neighborly to let the new owners know that you had a similar issue and how you approached it and the outcome. They may or may not be aware of the issue following the inspection they likely ordered before purchasing the property.
 
Calliope said:
They may or may not be aware of the issue following the inspection they likely ordered before purchasing the property.
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The inspection should note it. Inspectors usually go under houses and in attic spaces as a routine part of their evaluation.
 
if it is your house and you selling then full disclosure is required. But this was “as is”. Hmm. it seems to me that the seller would still be obligated to tell what he knows. But not you. But I am no expert on real estate sale or law.
 
Lack of insulation in an attic or eaves is probably not considered something that must be disclosed unless the state has particular laws regarding such. It is however something likely to be noted in a presale house inspection and the buyers can use that info to decide whether or not to move forward with the sale. Such an inspection is even more important when the sale is
“as is”.

Disclosure doesn’t include a listing of every ding, dent or lack of energy efficiency or improvements, in my experience. It usually refers to major systems or structural issues as stated by law.
 
I doubt the buyers would not buy the house because of that, but it is not your place to tell them. It is understandable why your neighbor said he is not willing to put more money into the house. He did sell it as is. So, “buyer beware.”

Perhaps after the buyer moves in and you see icicles forming, or even before, you might drop by with some baked goods and say you noticed the icicles have been there in the past and tell them what you did. No need to throw your elderly neighbor under the bus in doing so, just tell them what worked for you. 🙂
 
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I know this doesn’t address the moral question, but as a practical matter, icicles forming on the eaves and rain gutters is usually a sign of inadequate ventilation of the attic space rather than insufficient insulation.
 
This isn’t something that would typically be disclosed, especially on an “as is” home. Don’t most people get icicles? I live in the Northeast and I don’t know anyone who doesn’t deal with this or sees it as a major issue.

I think if you notice it happening to the new owner’s house this winter, it’s worth explaining how you addressed it. But don’t bring up the previous owner- he didn’t do anything wrong.
 
I agree that a home inspection is not required to report the design deficiencies of a house. I think it is mainly its place to report things not up to code at the time they were installed, dangerous items, and the condition of things like the heater or water heater. As for helping your neighbor, simply mentioning is just a neighborly thing if you’ve established some report with them. I have a town home and my neighbors asked about the new garage door we were installing and I gave him a quick overview of what we did.
 
Clementine14 said:
Don’t most people get icicles?
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Certainly where I live in western Canada we do. It’s not from heat escaping from inside, but from the sun shining on the south facing roof. Even at minus 30 enough heat can collect on the bare shingles to melt the snow on the surrounding ones. Kind of pretty too.
 
otrrl said:
In short, do I tell the new home owner about the problem?
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Yes, tell him. There is no reason not to. There is certainly no risk to you. He bought the house as-is, and you are just telling him what-is. The information will help him to make an informed decision on how to proceed.

By the way, I am less concerned about icicles than an ice dam. A warm attic can lead to the buildup of a tremendous ice dam, which can put melt water into the attic, the outer wall, or the interior of the house. A roof heater cable can help, though it runs up the electric bill.
 
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Thanks to everyone for such speedy replies.

No. exactly. My neighbors don’t get icicles at their eaves. I drove around looking for houses with icicles in my town, which has very old homes. I only found a small handful of houses that had tons of icicles like I did.

Yeah, inadequate ventilation may be a problem, but in my house, it was the reverse. There is a door to the crawl space/attic which has a gap at the bottom. I think my furnace was pushing $$ heated air into the crawl space, which IS ventilated with two roof top ventilators. That was money straight up those ventilators.

I eliminated my icicles by sealing up a gap along the length of the house, by insulating an abandoned return air duct, by taping up the gap around the attic door, and by doing something that was inspired by a video on youtube, I increased the return air flow to the furnace (which I think was a problem in my non-contractor built home).

Having seen the results of my efforts pay off so well, I just FEEL so obligated to tell those folks about that other house. After my late winter insulation project, I could tell I was saving energy and money by observing that the furnace seemed to be cycling on less often than before.

I guess I won’t bother those new home owners.
 
I recently had to fix something wrong with my house for similar reasons. It cost me money obviously but it would’ve cost me peace of mind if I hadn’t. It’s not an easy thing to do but just imagine how it would be to always live according to your concience, perfect peace?

I think as it’s not your house and in case it hasn’t been noticed by the inspector as suggested already it might be a good thing to just tell the new owner afterwards. I think most people expect to have to improve a newly acquired property to some extent - if that extent is fairly trivial then it’s probably fine.
 
Ok, totally off topic.

After a winter storm that began with a rain, turned to slush then temperatures dropped to below freezing, the next day was a winter wonderland of icicles hanging everywhere. My daughter was driving my grandson to kindergarten when he looked around and exclaimed,” Mom, look at all the pretty testicles.”

Just had to share the giggle.
 
otrrl said:
The evidence of that is there are icicles forming at the rain gutters in the winter, even at temps well-below freezing. There is obviously heat escaping, melting snow on the roof, which runs down and forms icicles.
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Agree that is pretty good evidence.
But there may be other explanations for the icicles. You cannot know for certain what the icicles indicate without inspection.
If you do not know for certain, you have no business telling a prospective buyer that there is a problem with the house.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
I know this doesn’t address the moral question, but as a practical matter, icicles forming on the eaves and rain gutters is usually a sign of inadequate ventilation of the attic space rather than insufficient insulation.
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Actually, it’s a sign that you moved someplace that is just plain too cold 🤣:crazy_face::roll_eyes:

hawk, firmly convinced that snow should be a destination, not a weather condition
 
I’d use it as an excuse to start a casual conversation with a new neighbor.
If the sale is done, there’s no harm that can come to the seller, so don’t worry about that.
 
I work for a real estate agent. There are a number of documents my state (Texas) requires to ensure that the buyer is aware of what he is getting. In addition, most buyers opt to have a home inspection done and the inspectors generally look at that type of stuff, especially on older homes which are not built to today’s energy standards.

After the closing it would not hurt to tell the new owner about it. Prior to that, there could be liability issues if you cannot provide proof. Just saying.

Patrick
AMDG
 
Hmmmm…our seller handed us a termite treatment contact within 10 min after signing closing paperwork. Was not on the disclosure paperwork. We ripped up carpet in the master bedroom on 2nd floor and could see down to the laundry room through an 8 in termite eaten hole in the floor. Were it up to me, I’d have gotten a lawyer and sued the seller for non disclosure. Lucky for the seller, my husband is conflict-averse. I’m still angry about it and wonder what other termite damage we’ve yet to find.
 
Definitely common, and definitely something your neighbor did not need to disclose, especially if he sold the house “as is” (which means that anything could exist as a problem and the buyer knew he/she was taking a calculated risk). If you tell your new neighbor about it, do it in a way that does not lack charity for the elderly seller by simply explaining that if they have problems in that area, here is the fix you used and not condemning the seller. No doubt if the house was sold “as is” there are bigger issues awaiting the buyer than this!
 
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