Housebound: baptism by desire?

[Salamandrina]

“1284 In case of necessity, any person can baptize provided that he have the intention of doing that which the Church does and provided that he pours water on the candidate’s head while saying: “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”“

I read the above from the Vatican site
https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm

There are a lot of reasons which would make this far too long to read(though please ask if you wish to know anything) so I’m trying to be brief.

I’m 65, housebound, not good health,have been following, reading, going to online streaming services for many months: I am unbaptised. I am unable to go to ‘live’ services, and not just because of the virus; ie I won’t be able to, even when life becomes more accessible.

I feel the calling, the need, to be baptised; as even a temporary measure, can I perform this myself?

I have contacted my local priest, but he is rushed off his feet dealing with everything. I have been writing to a Dominican Sister, who suggested Redemptive Suffering as a way in which I could be part of the church.

However…I feel that I need to be baptised, to be part of the church.

Right now, I do online streaming, do Spiritual Communion, and read everything I can. I just feel…stuck. At my age, with my health issues, I feel rather lost.

Could anyone let me know if this is ok to do…the things I am doing, plus a “temporary baptism by desire”?

(NB I have no family or friends who could help with this. I’m isolated - not complaining, just trying to give context)

 

[redcatholic]

If you can, call the priest. Talk to him. Ask him for a home visit and go from there. If you are in danger of death. Serious peril. Someone, anyone, can baptize you. You cannot baptize yourself.

 

[Vico]

…

The Bishop can allow a baptism to be performed at home, but it is normally done in a church or oratory.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1247 Since the beginning of the Church, adult Baptism is the common practice where the proclamation of the Gospel is still new. The catechumenate (preparation for Baptism) therefore occupies an important place. This initiation into Christian faith and life should dispose the catechumen to receive the gift of God in Baptism, Confirmation, and the Eucharist.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Somebody please tell me that this poor lady wouldn’t have to go through RCIA and a lengthy catechumenate.

If I were the priest, I would visit her myself, determine “where is she now, as opposed to where she would need to be, to be baptized?”, give some instruction possibly via Skype or FaceTime, get her to that point, and baptize her privately at her home. I’m sure I could get one of the ladies from the parish to be her sponsor. I don’t see how it has to be any more complicated than that.

To the OP, you will be in my prayers, that we can bring you into the Church sooner rather than later. If you have been, as you say, reading everything you can, you probably have enough information and spiritual formation to be baptized already. I don’t know.

 

[Salamandrina]

Thank you…really appreciate your reply. Am beginning to feel as though I’m invisible(not here…just a lot of difficult life situations)

 

[felsguy]

Somebody please tell me that this poor lady wouldn’t have to go through RCIA and a lengthy catechumenate.

Just the unofficial opinion of this 25+ volunteer RCIA team member and interim director on several occasions, but I would say very, very, very unlikely

If I were the priest, I would visit her myself, determine “where is she now, as opposed to where she would need to be, to be baptized?” , give some instruction possibly via Skype or FaceTime, get her to that point, and baptize her privately at her home. I’m sure I could get one of the ladies from the parish to be her sponsor. I don’t see how it has to be any more complicated than that.

Actually a pretty sound plan of action (for preparing and baptizing her, not the part about you being the priest )

By the way, while encouraged, baptismal sponsors are not required.

 

[Salamandrina]

Thank you so much for your kindness. It’s so very much appreciated.

I have a background of a reasonable amount of religious knowledge - a secular Jew, living in a Protestant estate in Glasgow(not sure how many folks here know but Glasgow, my home town, which I love dearly, has a very deep ‘Protestant/Catholic’ division. My schooling was nominally Protestant, which meant learning “There is a green hill far away” for Easter church, and similar at Christmas. None of it meant anything to me, as my family background was such a mixture.

But I’m now a widow, no family/friends, and feel (this feels a bit self important to use to describe myself, but I can’t think of any other way) called to be Catholic. I’ve been learning, reading, watching, and generally diving into the things I find helpful(with guidance from my Sister friend, who is lovely)

My house is pretty messy, but I manage fine - and I hope/think that a priest would not judge me over being Mrs Messy. I’m not in need of help with that…just what I described.

Again, thank you for the kindness. The reason I’d love to be baptised is that I would feel less of an outsider(though no one has made me feel that way) and have that ‘feeling’…and then, get into all the learning and necessary things before First Communion and everything else.

A wee bit mixed up and back to front, but in a curious way, that describes how my life has been…

 

[felsguy]

As was explained above, no, a person cannot baptize themselves. But your streaming, reading, and praying are all good to do. If your local parish is like most, RCIA is already going on or will be starting up shortly. Call and ask to speak with the person in charge of RCIA. Even though you would not be participating in it, they should be able to get the ball rolling for you.

 

[1ke]

can I perform this myself?

No.

Please call your local Catholic Church to discuss this with your pastor. Our pastor has gone to home bound people to confer the sacraments of initiation on them.

If the pastor can’t baptize you right now and you are in danger of death, then a lay person can baptize you. Discuss it with him.

You cannot baptize yourself.

 

[Irishmom2]

I have contacted my local priest, but he is rushed off his feet dealing with everything.

When you contacted him, did you get a chance to explain that due to your health issues, you feel the need to be baptized as soon as possible? He is rushed off his feet, but presumably with emergency situations. Your health issues bring you closer to “emergency” that him visiting to bring communion to someone, I would think.

Try calling again, and if you get someone in the office/rectory, ask to please have the priest contact you. Then explain your situation.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

If I were the priest, I would visit her myself, determine “where is she now, as opposed to where she would need to be, to be baptized?” , give some instruction possibly via Skype or FaceTime, get her to that point, and baptize her privately at her home. I’m sure I could get one of the ladies from the parish to be her sponsor. I don’t see how it has to be any more complicated than that.

Actually a pretty sound plan of action (for preparing and baptizing her, not the part about you being the priest )

By the way, while encouraged, baptismal sponsors are not required.

You must have been reading some of my posts Some of my comments about widely accepted sins (such as contraception) might be a bit scary, but then again, mortal sin and eternal damnation are scary too. Better to deal with the truth now, than wait until it’s too late.

I know sponsors are not strictly required, I was just thinking of something to help the OP have an experience of being grafted onto the Church that has some semblance of normalcy.

 

[felsguy]

You must have been reading some of my posts Some of my comments about widely accepted sins (such as contraception) might be a bit scary, but then again, mortal sin and eternal damnation are scary too. Better to deal with the truth now, than wait until it’s too late.

Just a late night but good intentioned attempt at a little teasing in response to “If I were the priest” In no way meant to be a comment on the positions or opinions of any of your posts.

 

[Salamandrina]

Thank you all for the support. There is one thing I am concerned about…I can’t get out(except for doctor/hospital), and aside from Sunday Mass, I don’t know what ?I could contribute(I don’t mean financially…not got much, but can certainly manage a little)

Sorry if I mentioned this before - had stroke, affected short term memory, and sometimes I forget Ive already said something(orthink Ive said it, when it’s just been in myhead)

What I mean is what I can give: I love the Divine Office(got the proper books, and Universalis)…I feel that all I can offer is prayers and non physical things. My Dominican Sister friend was talking about Redemptive Suffering(I have led rather a difficult life in many ways, some due to bad choices and decisions, but other completely random things, such as my mother being killed in the fire. And having been a carer for my husband for eight years, then he went into a care home, which was awful, and I’m unable to forgive myself for that. There are other things)

I’m not sure of the exact nature of Redemptive Suffering(my feeling is that I can ‘offer it up’ to try to ease the suffering of another person…something like that. Have sent for a book about it) but something about it feels like it could be at least partly how I could be a part of things. I find it very very difficult to be with people, which is why email is my preference for communicating. And the online streaming is…well, to say it’s a blessing is the best way of describing it.

I know it’s not the same as being there in person…but I couldn’t do that anyway; so, it’s perfect for me(and Iknow I’m in an unusual category anyway)

I think/hope God understands.

One thing I feel very strongly is that by being baptised, I may lose the guilt, and feel forgiven.

In any case, thank you all

 

[Salamandrina]

Thank you all for the support. There is one thing I am concerned about…I can’t get out(except for doctor/hospital), and aside from Sunday Mass, I don’t know what ?I could contribute(I don’t mean financially…not got much, but can certainly manage a little)

Sorry if I mentioned this before - had stroke, affected short term memory, and sometimes I forget Ive already said something(orthink Ive said it, when it’s just been in myhead)

What I mean is what I can give : I love the Divine Office(got the proper books, and Universalis)…I feel that all I can offer is prayers and non physical things. My Dominican Sister friend was talking about Redemptive Suffering(I have led rather a difficult life in many ways, some due to bad choices and decisions, but other completely random things, such as my mother being killed in the fire. And having been a carer for my husband for eight years, then he went into a care home, which was awful, and I’m unable to forgive myself for that. There are other things)

I’m not sure of the exact nature of Redemptive Suffering(my feeling is that I can ‘offer it up’ to try to ease the suffering of another person…something like that. Have sent for a book about it) but something about it feels like it could be at least partly how I could be a part of things. I find it very very difficult to be with people, which is why email is my preference for communicating. And the online streaming is…well, to say it’s a blessing is the best way of describing it.

I know it’s not the same as being there in person…but I couldn’t do that anyway; so, it’s perfect for me(and Iknow I’m in an unusual category anyway)

I think/hope God understands.

One thing I feel very strongly is that by being baptised, I may lose the guilt, and feel forgiven.

In any case, thank you all

 

[Salamandrina]

Sorry…it’s late afternoon, my concentrations gone, and I think I just posted the same thin* twice…apologies. Will be back tomorrow, if I’m spared(Scots saying)

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

You must have been reading some of my posts Some of my comments about widely accepted sins (such as contraception) might be a bit scary, but then again, mortal sin and eternal damnation are scary too. Better to deal with the truth now, than wait until it’s too late.

Just a late night but good intentioned attempt at a little teasing in response to “If I were the priest” In no way meant to be a comment on the positions or opinions of any of your posts.

No, you’re fine. Some of my comments are a little strong, but that is because they have to be.

Somebody has to speak up.

If I were twenty years younger, if I had the annulment I don’t have (and may never have), and if my son were provided for, I’d actually be seriously tempted to offer myself to the Church for priestly formation. However, aside from celibacy (something about which I find myself caring less and less), I’d have various issues:

• it is harder for a priest to save his soul, than it is for a layperson (consecrated religious have it easiest of all, because their whole life is oriented towards pleasing Almighty God in all things, with all distractions removed)
• I haven’t the patience to offer the Traditional Latin Mass — all those precise rubrics — and I really would not wish to offer the Ordinary Form
• I could not sit still and do all that academic work for seven more years of college
• I’d be such a jerk about things like refusing communion to manifest public sinners, nagging people to go to confession, and upbraiding people for things like irreverence in church and lack of modesty in dress, that I would probably eventually be relegated to things like prison ministry and nursing home chaplaincy

I’m sure I could think of more. It may be best all the way around that I’m too old to think of such things.

 

[Annie]

Sometimes the forum double-posts all on its own! So don’t worry about it…

Also, prayer is the best thing a person can give! Think about it, asking God’s help is the most powerful thing we can do.

And prayer was the main calling of so many order of nuns and monks–they are the contemplative communities.

(If you want a book recommendation, In This House of Brede is a lovely book, and there is a movie made of it too, which I have not seen.)

 

[Annie]

Baptism by Desire is what occurred to the Good Thief during Christ’s crucifixion, and is something that occurs when a person who intends to be baptized dies before the baptism can happen.

I would persevere with your parish. The person who works at the office might be able to arrange for you to “meet” via phone another housebound person who is Catholic or someone similar.

Also, continue to try contacting the priest. I sent an email to a priest: it was 2 months before he got back to me, and that is in a parish with 2 or 3 priests!

If nothing happens after 6 months even if you have tried a few times to contact the priest, try another parish or the diocese itself.

In the meantime, instruct someone close to you to baptize you if you are in danger of death.

Try to be at peace during this process, accepting God’s timeline for you and knowing He will make everything come out well, although not necessarily in the way you expect!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Don’t worry about a “contribution”.

Redemptive suffering just means you give your daily sufferings to God so he can use them to help the world/ help someone. For example, I am sick this week and had an hour of bad pain and i also have a bunch of hassles to deal with, so I offered that all up to God so he can use it to help a soul in Purgatory or a soul on earth. You can also say prayers.

I agree that your age and heath condition would seem to put you in the Danger of Death category. A priest should be willing to come to your house and help you, but you need to make clear your health condition and that you need baptism and not just a visit.

 

[LilyM]

Baptism by Desire is what occurred to the Good Thief during Christ’s crucifixion, and is something that occurs when a person who intends to be baptized dies before the baptism can happen.

I would persevere with your parish. The person who works at the office might be able to arrange for you to “meet” via phone another housebound person who is Catholic or someone similar.

Also, continue to try contacting the priest. I sent an email to a priest: it was 2 months before he got back to me, and that is in a parish with 2 or 3 priests!

If nothing happens after 6 months even if you have tried a few times to contact the priest, try another parish or the diocese itself.

In the meantime, instruct someone close to you to baptize you if you are in danger of death.

Try to be at peace during this process, accepting God’s timeline for you and knowing He will make everything come out well, although not necessarily in the way you expect!

^^ This.

Essentially if you were unfortunate enough to die with the desire, but without the opportunity, to be baptised, then you would be covered by baptism by desire, which doesn’t require any formal act or ceremony on your part.

Of course that may not be tremendously helpful to you in the here and now. I can only echo what other posters have said about chasing up your priest (or maybe your local diocese) until you get to speak to someone.