How a married gay Catholic couple live their faith

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kozlosap said:
The majority of those with advanced degrees and living in the Western Industrialized countries do not look upon LGBTQ humans as disordered. Priests are generally well educated, many having post grad degrees. Have you ever witnessed a priest refuse to offer the Eucharist to a person that is gay? I was not specifically speaking of gay marriage, but of supporting loved ones who are in a loving and long term monogamous relationship and happen to be gay, not straight. What I thought when I read the OP is that this couple is lucky to have such a loving family. I would never advocate for the Church to perform marriage ceremonies for gay couples since it is still forbidden, however; I see no harm, much less scandal, in attending the civil ceremony or other religious marriage celebration for those that are in love 💘 and wish to let it be known that they are in a lifetime relationship.

Yes, I understand that my stance is not that of many traditionalists, so be it. :shrug:
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Or of the Catholic Church. Same-sex marriage is anti-human nonsense and I’d rather be caught chasing purple unicorns than attend a celebration of such an utter denial of basic human values.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
The difference in those positions is that those types of marriage have the possibility of validation. They still retain the proper form.
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That is a bit of double talk there. The ceremony itself is invalid and can never be valid according to Catholic teaching as extrapolated here. So a sin that can be done sin free later is OK?
 
A relationship an uncle and his nephew have outside the confines of the Catholic Church is not an impossible thing.
 
kozlosap said:
One situation involves killing and the other does not - and we wonder why we have trouble getting non-believers to listen. This reminds me of trying to explain how murder and the use of artificial birth control are both mortal sins…:eek:
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Sin is sin is sin. Murder of the soul and murder of the body are no different. Love does not suddenly make something less offensive to God. A priest that says they would openly bless a travesty is way beyond just supporting a loved one. Christ very strictly condemns those that lead others to sin. For a priest to confess sin as a moral good deserving of blessing is a huge problem. A priest should no more support homosexual in fornication than a young man shacking up with his girlfriend. The only difference is that there is hope that the heterosexuals will one day be reconciled to God’s will, but homosexual acts are in opposition to natural law and will NEVER be ordered to the Holy Will.

You say your views are in opposition to traditionalist; no, they are in opposition to the Church and therefore in opposition to the will of God.

BTW - just because many with advanced degrees have been brain washed to beleive that homosexuality is not disordered does not mean it isn’t. I happen to know many people with masters and doctorates that fully accept that it is against the natural order. The difference is they trust God before using themselves or peers as their moral compass.
 
kozlosap said:
One situation involves killing and the other does not - and we wonder why we have trouble getting non-believers to listen. This reminds me of trying to explain how murder and the use of artificial birth control are both mortal sins…:eek:
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Nevertheless, they are both non-negotiable.
 
Sy_Noe said:
I just found another reason why I may never again be a practicing Catholic if the teaching is one can’t attend a non Catholic ceremony for a family member, in this case a close nephew. The priest and nephew recognize the ceremony is invalid in the Catholic Church.
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The church doesn’t teach that we.cannot attend non Catholic.ceremonies. What we cannot attend is marriages that are illicit or that we know are invalid. Two Anglicans, male.and.female, getting married in the Anglican church is a.perfectly valid marriage on the eyes of the Church and we can attend to that. Even two atheist getting married at a Courthouse is a perfectly valid marriage that we can attend. Two homosexuals cannot and will never be married so because that cannot be a marriage we are forbidden to attend.
 
Sy_Noe said:
I just found another reason why I may never again be a practicing Catholic if the teaching is one can’t attend a non Catholic ceremony for a family member, in this case a close nephew. The priest and nephew recognize the ceremony is invalid in the Catholic Church.
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That’s not the teaching. We are perfectly welcome to attend non-Catholic marriage ceremonies so long as they are valid. Heck, I was one of the readers at my Protestant friends’ wedding, it was a wonderful experience. The point is, this “marriage” can never be valid, so we should not attend the ceremony because it is promoting an immoral farce.
 
PJH_74 said:
That is a bit of double talk there. The ceremony itself is invalid and can never be valid according to Catholic teaching as extrapolated here. So a sin that can be done sin free later is OK?
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It’s not double speak, but I’ll give you that it’s nuanced. We are encouraged not to attend invalid ceremonies such as the two your described, but there are also allowances for reasons we may chose to. These allowances are given because we retain the hope tat the couple, while engaging in an objectively sinful action now, may ultimately take the steps necessary to correct the situation.

The possibility of “correcting the situation” does not exist in the case of “homosexual marriage,” so those same allowance also do not exist.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
That’s not the teaching. We are perfectly welcome to attend non-Catholic marriage ceremonies so long as they are valid. Heck, I was one of the readers at my Protestant friends’ wedding, it was a wonderful experience. The point is, this “marriage” can never be valid, so we should not attend the ceremony because it is promoting an immoral farce.
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Thank you and to Marymary1975. I personally still don’t want to practice though if the teaching is an uncle can’t attend a family ceremony involving his nephew. But that’s just me.
 
Sy_Noe said:
I just found another reason why I may never again be a practicing Catholic if the teaching is one can’t attend a non Catholic ceremony for a family member, in this case a close nephew. The priest and nephew recognize the ceremony is invalid in the Catholic Church.
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My objection to the priest is not him attending this pseudo marriage but his promotion and his wish that he could have performed a ceremony at his church.:tsktsk:
 
1neophyte said:
Is there anyone out there that can give a genuine and sincere answer as to why this doesn’t happen?

The Archbishop said he couldn’t comment without specifics? How about at least stating the Church’s position on the consequences for a priest who is so openly defiant of Church teaching, without commenting on a specific situation?

Does anyone else ever get the impression that despite whatever doctrines and dogmas exist on paper, the Church is just a complete free for all?
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Probably because if they did that they’d have a severe priest shortage on their hands. I’ve known quite a few Catholic priests in my time and I have to say a good number of them are not too different from this priest. Most of the Jesuits who taught me over the years disagreed with the Catholic Church’s stance on one or more of the hot button social or theological issues. And I doubt the Catholic priests I’ve known are unique. If the RCC is going to remove priests who don’t agree with RCC teachings on everything there’s not going to be enough priests to minister to the flock, particularly in the west.
 
Sy_Noe said:
Thank you and to Marymary1975. I personally still don’t want to practice though if the teaching is an uncle can’t attend a family ceremony involving his nephew. But that’s just me.
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I’m happy to discuss it, and would like to pose a question for your consideration.

If your nephew was holding a ceremony to celebrate a murder he’d just committed, would you feel obligated to attend just because of his familial relationship?

I know this might seem like an exaggeration, but hyperbole is very useful in making a point. (Please, be aware that I am not directly correlating the two actions.)

In terms of moral severity, homosexual acts actually come out worse than murder. Murder only destroys the body of the victim, it does nothing to the soul. On the other hand, homosexual acts destroy the soul of the victim (and many scientists also support the notion that these acts are harmful to the body as well.). Make no mistake, in the case of consensual homosexual acts, both participants make victims of the other. I’m sorry if you don’t like hearing this, but this is Church teaching. There is no hatred or malice in it, quite the contrary, we are so adamant about it because we desire what is Good for people like this priest’s nephew.

By saying that you don’t want to be Catholic because of out stance on homosexual acts / “marriage;” you are saying that you don’t want to be Catholic because we desire God’s Will for all people (salvation), in spite of their rejection of that Will. We simply cannot stop promoting what is good for a person just because they don’t want it.
 
MODERATOR NOTICE

The charity on this thread needs to improve. Comparing a homosexual couple with murderers is uncharitable and unacceptable. Please stop.

If you have questions on CAF charity rules, please review the forum rules.
 
Robert_Bay said:
MODERATOR NOTICE

The charity on this thread needs to improve. Comparing a homosexual couple with murderers is uncharitable and unacceptable. Please stop.

If you have questions on CAF charity rules, please review the forum rules.
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I said I wasn’t trying to imply an implicit comparison, only using hyperbole to make a point. Is that still uncharitable?
 
ProdglArchitect said:
It’s not double speak, but I’ll give you that it’s nuanced.
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I won’t try to go on with the very deep specifics of why one should or shouldn’t attend etc.a gay marriage; but I do appreciate your above comment and it drives right to the heart of what I’m getting at. I’m not really asking everyone here to jump up and down about gay marriage. But there has been a very disproportionate response to the situations we have been discussing.

Gay people are people. In the context of gay marriage, two gay people are expressing a love for each other that the Catholic church does not support as a sacrament or carnally. However we are talking about two people that love each other and want to have each other’s backs for life. You don’t have to support it; but there are WAY worse things going on in the world.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Quietly points to the part of the Bible where Jesus makes a flog and starts whipping people for defaming his father’s house…

If he did that because people were setting up shop where they shouldn’t, how much more anger do you think a desecration of the most amazing aspect of His father’s creation would elicit?

Sex is the single greatest aspect of God’s creation, because it is the way in which we actually participate with God in the act of creation; homosexuality in general and “gay marriage” specifically, reject the very basic reality of this gift and replace it with immoral pleasures. They remove God from the aspect of His creation which should be most intimately tied to Him.

I don’t want to be around when His judgment on this comes, because I have no doubt that it is going to be terrifying to behold. It will make being flogged by a whip look like a day in the park.
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👍
 
kozlosap said:
The majority of those with advanced degrees and living in the Western Industrialized countries do not look upon LGBTQ humans as disordered. Priests are generally well educated, many having post grad degrees. Have you ever witnessed a priest refuse to offer the Eucharist to a person that is gay? I was not specifically speaking of gay marriage, but of supporting loved ones who are in a loving and long term monogamous relationship and happen to be gay, not straight. What I thought when I read the OP is that this couple is lucky to have such a loving family. I would never advocate for the Church to perform marriage ceremonies for gay couples since it is still forbidden, however; I see no harm, much less scandal, in attending the civil ceremony or other religious marriage celebration for those that are in love 💘 and wish to let it be known that they are in a lifetime relationship.

Yes, I understand that my stance is not that of many traditionalists, so be it. 🤷
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Please provide the source for the survey undertaken to reach such conclusions.
 
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