How are Christian films so awful?

[Diotima]

There’s a dearth of good Christian movies because, frankly, the interior spiritual experience is hard to communicate on-screen. But that doesn’t mean they’re all bad. Some Christian movies (or movies with Christian themes) that I’ve enjoyed are Of Gods and Men, Into Great Silence, Andrei Rublev, The Passion of Joan of Arc, The Virgin Spring, Padre Pio, Apocalypto (an examination of a "culture of death), The Reluctant Saint (a comedy, but good), Man for All Seasons, Tree of Life, plus the ones you mentioned in your OP.

Despite the inherent difficulties of the medium, there’s been a renaissance of Catholic movies lately. I haven’t seen any of the following, but have heard they’re good: There Be Dragons (from the director of The Mission), The Greatest Miracle (a cartoon, but it seemed to get good reviews), October Baby, Augustine: Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, No Greater Love (the one about Carmelite nuns, not the Protestant romantic comedy), The Island (well, that one’s Orthodox).

Christiada is coming out soon and it looks fantastic.

youtube.com/watch?v=Im7PMtF-QVc

 

[Dranu]

This is what TRR said about his books.
But can the same be said about the movies…
Especially if one has never read the books and only seen the films…

Peace
James

True, but he films I think are close enough despite some liberties taken and Jackson seemed quite clear about wanting it to keep the underlying philosophies of Tolkien, and that’s probably a good reason the movies did so well.

 

[patrick457]

Can’t let this one go . Though I think he stated he does not like the C.S. Lewis type smack-you-in-the-face-metaphor, he did specifically say that "The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like ‘religion’, to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism."

Its also Marian: “All my own perception of beauty both in majesty and simplicity is founded upon Our Lady.”

Lord of the Rings belongs to the Holy Church, and its nice to have the best fictional work ever created by man

Actually what Tolkien disliked was his work being considered an ‘allegory’; he thought that ‘applicability’ is the term one should use.

 

[patrick457]

Well LOTR was a good movie. It’s actually my favorite book and there is a good chance I am the biggest Tolkien nerd on CAF. Tolkien also SPECIFICALLY stated that LOTR was not a metaphor for Christianity.

In that case, I think we could go along pretty well.

(Unrelated, but I so totally want someone to adapt Farmer Giles of Ham )

By ‘film’ though, do you mean Bakshi’s, Rankin-Bass’, or Jackson’s?

 

[ringil]

In that case, I think we could go along pretty well.

(Unrelated, but I so totally want someone to adapt Farmer Giles of Ham )

By ‘film’ though, do you mean Bakshi’s, Rankin-Bass’, or Jackson’s?

I saw the cartoons eons ago, yes. I liked the Jackson films, but for such a huge Tolkien fan as myself, no film can really touch the life my imagination gave to the work.

In Jackson’s work the things that most matched my imagination were:

The Balrog
Sauron in his material form
Grond: the hammer of the underworld.
I believe that Legolas was a great looking character as well as Boromir.

I don’t like that for many, the films will shape their concept of Tolkien’s world so that when/if they read them their imaginations will be filtered through Jackson’s depictions.

I also Love the Silmarilion.

My daugter’s name is Lorien.

Yes, I am a Tolkien Nerd.

I have also visited Japan- it was really cool.

 

[LemonAndLime]

So I watched this movie “Courageous” which is a Christian-themed movie about Fatherhood. It was pretty awful. This review from Rotten Tomatoes sums up my sentiments nicely regarding this filmspecifically, but also much of the Christian movie making industry in general.

“Fails to answer the more pressing question of why religious sagas such as this treat subtlety as a sin”

Some religious movies I actually have enjoyed are “The Mission”, “Black Robe”, and “The Passion”- though this is a very specific type of film. These movies have great acting and impressive settings and present complex moral questions in a mature and intriguing way- at least the first two. The passion, I enjoyed more as a depiction of a specific event- the Passion ofcourse- so was presented in a different, but authentic and moving way.

Why are Christian movies so bad in general though as pieces of film making? Why do they lack any sense of subtlety and generallly, come at you like a moralistic sledgehammer to the head? This movie “Courageous” is a sachrine-sweet, American-as-apple-pie, shallow, and dry trolip through the most basic moral questions presented in the most obvious manner.

Have other folks noticed this and why do you think this is. I suspect that Christian film makers may be too worried that they could offend their audience, or don’t believe that their prospective audiences are sophisticated enough to grasp but the most basic moral dillemas…

It’s what happens when you make a film with the sole objective of proving a point, rather than making a film for its own merit and enjoyment.

 

[patrick457]

I tend to agree with the other posters that one main problem with a number of so-called ‘Christian’ movies is that they tend to heavy-handedly emphasize whatever it is that they want to tell the audience usually at the expense of crucial things such as a believable plot and decent acting, force-feeding it down the audience’s throats. (This isn’t by all means a problem limited to these types of filmmakers, though IMHO it is a pitfall they fall into easily.)

For the record, does anyone know of that end-time film The Omega Code and its ‘sequel’? The first film, while not being particularly very good (the plot’s highly reminiscent, dare I say almost a virtual copy of the Left Behind series in terms of the Antichrist), is at least decent enough especially when compared to its sequel-prequel (which follows a different storyline than the first, though the Antichrist character in both films is played by Michael York) of sorts.

 

[ringil]

For the record, does anyone know of that end-time film The Omega Code and its ‘sequel’? The first film, while not being particularly very good (the plot’s highly reminiscent, dare I say almost a virtual copy of the Left Behind series in terms of the Antichrist), is at least decent enough especially when compared to its sequel-prequel (which follows a different storyline than the first, though the Antichrist character in both films is played by Michael York) of sorts.

I don’t like films about the end of the world unless they are horror movies or super-disturbing.

 

[patrick457]

I saw the cartoons eons ago, yes. I liked the Jackson films, but for such a huge Tolkien fan as myself, no film can really touch the life my imagination gave to the work.

In Jackson’s work the things that most matched my imagination were:

The Balrog
Sauron in his material form
Grond: the hammer of the underworld.
I believe that Legolas was a great looking character as well as Boromir.

I pretty much agree with you there (I doubt whether Balrogs have material wings though ) and would like to add Ian Mckellen’s Gandalf for special mention.

In my opinion PJ mostly successfully captures the look and feel of Middle-Earth. It is with some of the characterizations and additions to the plot that I have a problem with.

I don’t like that for many, the films will shape their concept of Tolkien’s world so that when/if they read them their imaginations will be filtered through Jackson’s depictions.

True. I came to the books by way of the films, though I am now somewhere on the purist camp. (I’m not as purist-y now as I was way back, though I’m still in it.) Hence I usually tend to visualize things by myself, distancing myself from PJ’s depiction. (Not always easy.)

I also Love the Silmarilion.

Shame that the Dagor Dagorath never made it though.

 

[Diotima]

Oh, and in addition to the movies I mentioned in my post above, I also read a positive review of Arn the Knight Templar:

orthosphere.org/2012/02/28/arn-the-knight-templar/

The trailer looks iffy to me, but since the movie is available on Youtube for only 2.99, I guess you can judge for yourself.

Also, The Secret of Kells, which came out a few years ago, is supposed to be good. Again, it’s a cartoon, though the animation is much better than The Greatest Miracle.

youtube.com/watch?v=tMPhHTtKZ8Q

 

[ringil]

I pretty much agree with you there (I doubt whether Balrogs have material wings though ) and would like to add Ian Mckellen’s Gandalf for special mention.

Yes, the depiction of Gandalf, and Saruman was done well, overall, I believe. I think that, maybe, a bit too much slap-stick humor was used with Gandalf in the first film, but this is minor.

I must say that when Galadriel goes nuts, and turns blue in the first movie- that is probably the most annoying segment of the films for me.

Overall, though, LOTR could have been SO MUCH worse than it was, so I give props. to Jackson.

 

[Cat]

Just a thought.

For many decades, certain denominations of Protestants were not allowed to attend movies.

My husband came from a denomination where they could not watch movies on Sundays.

I can remember lots of people in my church who never attended movies.

Soooo–perhaps what we’re seeing is a cultural thing. People who don’t go to a lot of movies aren’t going to have a good sense of what a “good film” is. Even if they go now, there may still be a lack of background in films. After all, the more movies you see, the better you will understand the medium.

I agree with all those who are saying, “Show it, don’t say it.” Film is a visual medium. I’ve done some screenplay writing. Here is what I read–“A good screenplay should have very little dialogue on each page, only a few sentences. Instead, it should be full of directions about the visuals.”

Last Christmas, our family watched It’s A Wonderful Life. All the way through it, I kept thinking, “Too much talking! Needs more action!”

Perhaps Christians who have watched more films like It’s A Wonderful Life rather than films like *Die Hard! * think that they have to write all kinds of dialogue (lectures) rather than show action.

 

[Not_Sure_1]

Well LOTR was a good movie. It’s actually my favorite book and there is a good chance I am the biggest Tolkien nerd on CAF. Tolkien also SPECIFICALLY stated that LOTR was not a metaphor for Christianity.

J.R.R. Tolkien wrote, “The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision.”

 

[SGTTOM]

Most Christian films get caught up in a positive Christian message and end up a bit like a lot of shallow romantic movies. Like said above I think they suffer from lack of inspiration or vision.

It’s what happens when you make a film with the sole objective of proving a point, rather than making a film for its own merit and enjoyment.

Exactly…

Just a thought.

For many decades, certain denominations of Protestants were not allowed to attend movies.

My husband came from a denomination where they could not watch movies on Sundays.

I can remember lots of people in my church who never attended movies.

Soooo–perhaps what we’re seeing is a cultural thing. People who don’t go to a lot of movies aren’t going to have a good sense of what a “good film” is. Even if they go now, there may still be a lack of background in films. After all, the more movies you see, the better you will understand the medium.

I agree with all those who are saying, “Show it, don’t say it.” Film is a visual medium. I’ve done some screenplay writing. Here is what I read–“A good screenplay should have very little dialogue on each page, only a few sentences. Instead, it should be full of directions about the visuals.”

Last Christmas, our family watched It’s A Wonderful Life. All the way through it, I kept thinking, “Too much talking! Needs more action!”

Perhaps Christians who have watched more films like It’s A Wonderful Life rather than films like *Die Hard! * think that they have to write all kinds of dialogue (lectures) rather than show action.

Man I love a Wonderful Life! Its definitely one of favorite films. Probably on my Top 10.
Anyways the Dark Knight had a lot of lecturing dialogue and it is incredibly popular and highly rated.
On another note I am not a big fan of the Lord of the Rings movies. Sure it could have been worse but it suffers from obvious hollywoodization .

 

[Diotima]

For many decades, certain denominations of Protestants were not allowed to attend movies.

This got me thinking. Yes, Southern Baptists and other evangelicals used to frown on movies. But I think that’s just one aspect of a larger problem in their culture: suspicion towards images and other sensory experiences. Protestants approach God primarily through the intellect–they read the Bible, listen to sermons, etc. Catholics, on the other hand, experience faith in a more direct and visceral manner. Jesus enters us through food and drink; we express our reverence towards him through kneeling, through contemplating images, through crossing ourselves.

I think that’s why the best Christian movies tend to come from a Catholic or Orthodox point of view (Passion of Joan of Arc, Andrei Rublev). It might not be a coincidence that his thread began with a discussion of a Protestant movie.

 

[Marchmain1987]

My Favorite Catholic Movies:

1. Brideshead Revisited (the Granada T.V. version)
2. Monsignor Quixote (from the book by Graham Greene)
3. After the Truth (horrifyingly true)
4. Little Flowers of St. Francis (SUBLIME)
5. Gospel According to St. Matthew (Pasolini’s “nostalgia for belief” at its best)
6. Black Robe (I liked it and I didn’t – still very powerful)
7. Brother Sun, Sister Moon (very dated and still very moving – it is mainly due to Donovan’s vocals)

Someone mentioned Tyler Perry. Horrible, Horrible, Horrible. At his best it is wooden acting with contrived and out-dated material that has been done better elsewhere. His Madea movies are Amos N Andy with some “Jee-suz” thrown in.

 

[ringil]

Well, “The Mission” was excellent. The end of the film was very powerful and left me a little weepy.

 

[SGTTOM]

Well, “The Mission” was excellent. The end of the film was very powerful and left me a little weepy.

I haven’t seen it yet but the soundtrack is simply stunning!

 

[havana1]

1. Brother Sun, Sister Moon (very dated and still very moving – it is mainly due to Donovan’s vocals)

Brother Sun, Sister Moon is enjoying a resurgence of late thanks to the indie-rock band Girls (whose lead singer was once in the “Children of God”). He mentions the movie in nearly every interview he does. Here’s one example:

“It’s called Brother Sun, Sister Moon. It’s a really great one by Franco Zeffirelli, who did Romeo and Juliet and all that. And Donovan does all the music for the movie. The soundtrack is this album he wrote specifically for the script, and it’s just beautiful. I bought the album Donovan actually made. Zeffirelli had bought the publishing rights to it, so he just took Donovan’s vocals from it and put all this weird, Italian music behind it. It’s just beautiful. Donovan’s album is just done with guitars and stuff, but it’s still pretty cool too. But Franco Zeffirelli, he’s kind of an idol. Brother Sun, Sister Moon was just shown to me throughout my childhood, because it’s about St. Francis and everything. It’s a heavy movie with heavy ideas.”
Source: anthemmagazine.com/qa-with-girls/

 

[wondrousgnat]

I recently saw the movie “Courageous” which is also sold through Ignatius. Thought it was bad too. The movie was too simplistic. The Christians in the movie all seemed blessed and everything went well while the nonChristians were always bad. Those who lapsed in their Christianity also suffered.
There was a Black Christian family which was living quite well (in spite of another cop complaining about how tough it was to live on $36,000 a year). All other Blacks were criminals in the movie. For that matter it seemed that the only criminals were Black. It looked to me as a rather racist movie and I was not comfortable with that.
Frankly I would not recommend the movie.