How are men supposed to make their romantic intentions known in the aftermath of metoo?

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Be sensitive to the nonverbal clues. Use your intuition. It is not that difficult.
 
I think this is your fatal error. Most women don’t appreciate men who “go for it” when they haven’t even made a reasonable attempt at a conversation. I also don’t think too many women would think it weird if you asked for a kiss rather than grabbing them and slobbering all over them. Also, the word “aggressive” is indicative of a problem. Normal men can figure out from body language and context when a woman is interested in being kissed. If you find all that too confusing, you should probably get used to asking.
 
It helps if you’re very attractive to the woman in question; she’s much less likely to label you a creep.
 
I get you with this, despite a lot of people not seeming to understand.

I’m awkward anyway so it’s easiest to wait until absolutely sure. Lots of things are harder these days than I think older people must not realize. Now insisting on paying and being chivalrous can be sexiest and make me a bad guy. That’s what happens when a group of people decide to tear apart the culture norms. Now there are no norms and men raised in traditional homes don’t know how to act. I’m with ya man.
 
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Now insisting on paying

When you ask someone on a date, it is very reasonable to ask “will you allow me to treat you to dinner?” Not a few women have encountered men who think “I bought you a steak, you owe me!”. This is not an “old person” thing. It is real life.

Simply set the expectations before that awkward moment when the check arrives.

Here is an intresting article from a reputable source:


and being chivalrous can be sexiest and make me a bad guy.

Define “chivalrous”

That’s what happens when a group of people decide to tear apart the culture norms. Now there are no norms and men raised in traditional homes don’t know how to act.

It is not that all cultural norms have been torn apart, it is that we are now talking about evil deeds that have been done in the dark. Good people are still good people. Men raised in traditional homes, remember, there are also women who were raised in traditional homes!

This is a reason we should be selective in dating. If you desire to find a relationship with a Catholic woman who shares your worldview and your values, date women who are Catholic and share your worldview. Make your deal killer list and stick to it. If you are okay marrying a non-Catholic, but, you insist on Christianity, then make that your list.

Stunning how this forum is full of both men saying “there are no Catholic women to date” and women saying “there are no Catholic men to date”. They are there. You don’t catch saltwater fish in a pond in Iowa. You are not likely to meet Catholic partners at bars or on Tinder.
 
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I was taught to be very polite and chivalrous toward my mom, and would get in trouble for not opening doors pumping gas for her etc etc. I was taught that’s how you treat women. Simple as that.

The women I’ve dated, both very traditional, we’re visibly uncomfortable being treated this way, so I stopped rather quickly.

I don’t really think it’s an “old person” thing either. I just think when you don’t have to deal with dating anymore it’s a lot easier to go criticizing the rules and trying to change them… because you don’t have to deal with the changes.

But you make some good points and it’s often not simple, thanks to jerks who muddy it up for the rest of us.
 
TheLittleLady said:
It is not that all cultural norms have been torn apart, it is that we are now talking about evil deeds that have been done in the dark. Good people are still good people. Men raised in traditional homes, remember, there are also women who were raised in traditional homes!
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There are also a lot of things that were side effects of other things. In a society where the expectation was that men worked and women stayed home with their parents until they married, and then stayed at home to raise the kids, of course men paid for the dates.

I think also how much we move around has changed things. When you read a lot of the older stories, a guy meeting a woman he genuinely didn’t know wasn’t that common. More likely you knew most of the people in the area, and if you didn’t you probably knew someone who knew them. There were a lot more organized social events and older folk to ensure potentially compatible young adults got to know each other. (That was often the way young women got around not being able to ask - they likely knew someone who could drop a bug in the guy’s ear.)
 
I’m of the older generation, a member of Gen X. In my generation, at least in my social circles, whoever did the inviting paid.

I don’t know about the boomers, but date invitations went both ways, guys have asked me out for dates and I’ve asked guys out for dates. A lot of the times, we paid for ourselves. The goal was to get to know each other as friends first before taking it to the next level.
 
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FloridaCatholic said:
I’m a guy. I’m 27. And I’ve been on plenty of dates and I have plenty of friends. When I talk to my friends about this all of them said they’ve never asked. I’ve never heard of anyone asking.
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If she despises you for doing something as nice as asking - would you seriously feel like you’re missing out if you lose her?
 
I think there’s a big difference between what women say they want and what they actually want and respond to.

You make a good point. But making a bad impression sucks. And I don’t wanna be seen as lame or as a creep
 
Not for most women. (or people for that matter.) If you are actually listening, most people tell you or show you exactly what they want.
 
DarkLight said:
Asking isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.
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According to metoo, are you supposed to ask first, and then go together to the notary and get the statement of agreement to a kiss notarized before a witness? And make sure that the statement is given under penalty of perjury?
 
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Sometimes just asking someone out is considered harassment now depending on who you ask and how you ask it

I want a consent app
 
AlNg said:
According to metoo, are you supposed to ask first, and then go together to the notary and get the statement of agreement to a kiss notarized before a witness? And make sure that the statement is given under penalty of perjury?
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*According to the straw man I’ve heard from people opposed to metoo…
FloridaCatholic said:
Sometimes just asking someone out is considered harassment now depending on who you ask and how you ask it
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I mean, that’s always been the case, it’s just that a lot of guys used to ignore it. The trouble is when you’re asking someone out in a way that implies there’s consequences for saying no.

That’s why there’s a big push on bosses or hiring managers asking people out - because it’s too easy to turn into “the cost of your job is going out with me”.
 
I’m not talking about bosses. I’m talking about regular people who aren’t abusing positions of power
 
How many of those stories have you actually heard, where someone just asked a woman out and was accused of harassment?

Of course, I’ve had a guy who said I did that to him - he asked me out, then made a very crude inquiry into my preferences once I said no, along with a few gestures in case I was unsure what body part he was referencing.
 
Enough stories where I got worried about what may happen to me
 
Also some guys innocently ask out a girl without being a creep or rude at all and get lampooned
 
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