How are Mormons, Muslims and non-Catholic Protestant Christians really that different?

[1holycatholic]

The belief that the Church must be free from sinners and/or have members who hold only heterodox beliefs isn’t in the Bible, but then the doctrine that the Bible is the sole source of doctrine isn’t in the Bible either.

 

[BrianH]

No Catholic Sui Juris Church uses the Julian calendar. The differences in calendar use have divided Eastern Orthodoxy.

You don’t have to point fingers and say who is and isn’t Orthodox, the various Orthodox do that themselves.

easterncatholicchurch.org/questions.html
aquinasandmore.com/catholic-articles/The-Dormition-Fast-in-the-Eastern-Churches/article/294
ccky.org/PDF%20Files/prison/Eastern%20Rite%20Catholicism.pdf

 

[BrianH]

I get your point. Its well stated. But that rather large book includes as many comments about fruits as well.

 

[1holycatholic]

easterncatholicchurch.org/questions.html

I don’t mean liturgical calendar, that even varies in Western rites. From your source:
While some Eastern Orthodox jurisdictions stress the calendar utilised to prove how “Orthodox” you are, our jurisdiction has always permitted each parish to utilise the Eastern Calendar Cycle of Feasts and Church Seasons either based upon the Gregorian, Revised Julian, or Julian Calendars.
Some Eastern Orthodox deny the Gregorian calendar and break communion with those who use it, Catholics can’t.

 

[perro_sarnoso]

How are today’s Mormons (LDS), Muslims (Islamists) and non-Catholic Protestant Christians (all 36,000 different non-Christian denominations) really that different? After all, they all reject various aspects of Catholicism. They all share the same God of Abraham and they wrote their own “Bibles”, the KJV, the Koran and the Book of Mormon… taking much of what they wrote from the original Catholic Bible. Is there really just two groups of believers, those who are Catholic and those who came after Catholicism, who in my opinion tried to re-invent their religions using the Catholic Model? Or, basically copying the Catholic Church… but on their terms now…

Your thoughts?

I see an immediate problem with this question…maybe it’s defective.

Non-catholic protestant christians are still christians. While Mormons are not christians.

As a matter of fact mormonism and islam both started out as heresies not religions. Islam for example gained popularity and strength by the sword. And when I say sword I don’t mean the word of God. Too many heresies in islam to count.
Mormonism is not only not christian, it is a politheistic cult. Too many heresies in modern mormonism to mention.

 

[ephesians2]

Protestants have no authority.

I believe Protestants authority is the Bible.

 

[1holycatholic]

I believe Protestants authority is the Bible.

Q.E.D.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Hi Jon,

All true but if you ask a Mormon (LDS), they will tell you that they are Christian. The full name of the Mormon Church, is after all - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

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Mormons - created their own “bible”, the Book of Mormon.
Muslims - created their own “bible”, the Koran.
Protestants - created their own “bible”, The King James Version (KJV) bible
Protestants - created the Book of Common Prayer .

None of these religions or denominations use a Catholic Bible in their religious services.

The Mormons (LDS), the Muslims and Protestants all have men, who have “founded” there religions and denominations.

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The persons that these religions originate -

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Mormons - The Prophet Joseph Smith
Muslims - The Prophet Mohammad
Protestants - Martin Luther, James Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli
John Calvin and so on and so forth … several thousands of times over.

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Catholicism was founded by Christ. The first Christian Bible was collected, passed down, translated, put into a specific order, numbered and created and approved by the Catholic Church.
Muslims, LDS and Protestants came hundreds of years after the fact, after Catholicism.
Isn’t the world really just two religions, Catholics and non-Catholics? As stated in an earlier post, Judaism, Protestantism, Islam, and most others, believe in the same God of Abraham.
What gives any particular Protestant denomination, or non-Catholic religion the authority to claim that the Muslims, or the Mormons or any other denomination or religion is wrong in their beliefs, when they (Protestants, non-Catholic Christians) originally broke for the first Christian Church, the Catholic Church?
Additionally, why do they (non-Catholic Christians) use a Catholic book, albeit, an edited version of the Bible, to make many of these claims, including claims against Catholic doctrine?
I guess the main question is - If you are a Christian, then why aren’t you a Catholic? And, If you do belong to a denomination the broke from Catholicism, where does your denomination derive it’s authority to question these other religions or denominations? I can’t see it…
Your thoughts?
Thanks for your post Jon.

 

[wisdomseeker]

It is all in the eye of the beholder as to who has the pillar and the truth.

That is what protestants believe. Jesus gave authority to His Church. Man going outside the Church claiming authority for themselves which was not given to them. Protestants assume an unlawfull authority. God gave authority to Israel alone. No other nation could claim to know God. If anyone was going to know God, they would have to come through Israel. So it is today with the Church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

First of all catholic means universal, Roman Catholics do not own the term catholic. All that accept at least Trinity and the three Ecumenical Creeds are Christians. The Mormons are not Christian. They do not accept the Trinity and worship a god of this world and in fact a good Mormon could become a god of a world somewhere. Muslims worship a god named Allah

Universal means one Faith, one mind, believing in the same thing. One Church and not many. St Paul was very clear when he described the Church. The Apostles all thought one Faith which was to be continued. Protestants work agaisnt the CC keeping people outside the Church and the Sacraments. Keep them from believing the Truth given to His Church alone. All the Apostles received the same teachings from Jesus. they cannot differ from each other. Protestants came later and changed the teachings of Jesus.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Several denominations and churches do have authority in terms of the faith and morality of those that belong to them. To get back to a question I asked you. Do you personally believe that Catholics adhere to their church teachings concerning faith and morals than other groups? I do not see a difference personally.

Do you believe that Jesus was not Jesus because some refuse to believe and obey Him?

the same as the Church. The Church teaches what Jesus commands, if you don’t believe or obey, you shall be accountable to God for disobedience to His Church. From the beginning of the Church many left, didnt believe yet the Church went on to this day. That is how you will be judged. based on disobedience to God and His Church.

 

[JonNC]

Jimmy, my friend.

=Jimmy B;8257982] Catholicism was founded by Christ. The first Christian Bible was collected, passed down, translated, put into a specific order, numbered and created and approved by the Catholic Church.

And even among Catholics until Trent, there was dispute as to what was to be included as canon and what was not. And the Rome canon differs from that of the Orthodox.

Muslims, LDS and Protestants came hundreds of years after the fact, after Catholicism.
Isn’t the world really just two religions, Catholics and non-Catholics? As stated in an earlier post, Judaism, Protestantism, Islam, and most others, believe in the same God of Abraham.

Clearly not, as the others mentioned do not believe in the Triune God. ISTM that this is the defining difference between Christian (Catholic, Orthodox, Western non-Catholic Christian) and non-Christian.

What gives any particular Protestant denomination, or non-Catholic religion the authority to claim that the Muslims, or the Mormons or any other denomination or religion is wrong in their beliefs, when they (Protestants, non-Catholic Christians) originally broke for the first Christian Church, the Catholic Church?

The authority you claim, that being papal primacy and the magisterium, claims us as Christian, whech seems to defeat your contention. But if you stand by your claim, then you must also include Orthodoxy in this way.

Additionally, why do they (non-Catholic Christians) use a Catholic book, albeit, an edited version of the Bible, to make many of these claims, including claims against Catholic doctrine?

Why would we not? And why would that offend, since Catholics do not claim the Bible as the source of doctrine, but Tradition, of which the Bible is but a part?

I guess the main question is - If you are a Christian, then why aren’t you a Catholic? And, If you do belong to a denomination the broke from Catholicism, where does your denomination derive it’s authority to question these other religions or denominations?

Simply doctrine, and for this Christian almost specifically the doctrine of universal jurisdiction, which is not accepted by the other patriarchs of the undivided Church.

Thanks for your post Jon.

Thanks for the thread, and it is good to see you again.

Jon

 

[Jimmy_B]

…Why would we not? And why would that offend, since Catholics do not claim the Bible as the source of doctrine, but Tradition, of which the Bible is but a part?..

Thanks for the thread, and it is good to see you again.

Jon

Hi Jon,

You know that’s not entirely correct… you remember the “three legged stool”… right?

Catholics follow, or in other words, don’t reject Holy Tradition or reject the authority of the Church, as many Protestants do. That’s the difference. We follow Holy Scripture, Holy Tradition and the Holy Catholic Church (Pope, Bishops, Magisterium and so on…). Readings from the Bible are read at every Catholic Mass on a liturgical cycle… but you knew that.

It is good to see you again too!

 

[1holycatholic]

And even among Catholics until Trent, there was dispute as to what was to be included as canon and what was not. And the Rome canon differs from that of the Orthodox.

That’s not true. The canon was definitively settled in the late fourth century. The dogmatic definition didn’t come until some in the Protestant rebellion started removing books from the canon. If there were no Protestant rebellion we would still have the Bible with the same seventy three books infallibly determined by the Catholic Church in the late fourth century.

 

[Kristin234]

The Eastern Catholics use different calendars too. I thought that was the case but just read it on this forum.
The Assyrian Church of the East are not Orthodox. The Oriental and the Catholics seperated prior to 500 AD. Eastern Orthodox does not own either one.
You cant lump these groups together with the Eastern Orthodox.

:yup: The Assyrian Church of the East is not Orthodox. A large part of my family is a part of the church and I just recently found out that it isn’t Orthodox But it is an Apostolic church

 

[mark_a]

How are today’s Mormons (LDS), Muslims (Islamists) and non-Catholic Protestant Christians (all 36,000 different non-Christian denominations) really that different?
I don’t know about Mormonism, but Protestants and Muslims all have the same authority problem. In the end, they have none.

 

[Bran_Stark]

We also both know that the KJV today, is not the same KJV of 20, 30 or 40 years ago.

What do you mean by this?

 

[Jimmy_B]

What do you mean by this?

Hi Bran,

What I mean is that as time goes on, there have been more and more scholars and linguists… generally, more people who can properly translate the languages of the Bible into English. So, as the result, better translations of the KJV has occurred… Better translations into English, of the Catholic Bible has occurred as well.

One of the most notable instances for non-Catholic Christians might be John 3:16… Only because this is one of the more well know verses…

Older translation -

*“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” *

Current (correct) Translation -

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.”

Entire non-Catholic Christian denominations are built around this verse and although they are essentially saying the same thing, obviously the first appears to be much more definitive and definitely more “Protestant” and is often use to try to support an errant Protestant belief in, “Once Saved Always Saved” (OSAS).

This is just one example. As time passes, Protestant Bibles are becoming more and more “Catholic”… as one should expect, considering that the Bible is actually a Catholic book.

I hope this helps. Thank you for your post.

Your thoughts?

 

[mwok]

I disagree. It is by their fruits. Truth as an abstract theory without practical implications and adherence does matter. When evaluating the claims of respective groups, the practical implications do measure the validity.
Oh I understand this view but I see no biblical, logical, or rational reason to accept this line of thinking.

Wrong.
Satan rejected God in full knowledge of the Truth.

To say truth is abstract is saying God is abstract. What you seem to follow is not God but the path of least resistance.

 

[wisdomseeker]

**Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH
I disagree. It is by their fruits. Truth as an abstract theory without practical implications and adherence does matter. When evaluating the claims of respective groups, the practical implications do measure the validity.
Oh I understand this view but I see no biblical, logical, or rational reason to accept this line of thinking. **

You certaily don’t believe that God is in favor of rebellious man, do you?

When satan rebelled against God, He through him out of His Kingdom. martin luther was a rebellious man, certainly you don’t think God followed him, do you? God does not turn against His own Kingdom. Jesus said, “a Kingdom divided is a Kingdom…”

And Jesus here is talking about people wihtin His Church, man who causes division, and we are not to follow them. it seems that is describing protestantism here.

protestantism was built in hatreth for the Church of God. go figure.