How are the people to learn chant responses?

[japhy]

1. Introduce them before Mass.
2. Print out booklets with the chants. Have enough copies that you can have them in the church and also let the families take copies home. (Yes, it costs money. Everything does.)
3. Use them often.

The nice thing about the call-and-response chants is that they generally use the same tune for the call as the response.

 

[Chatter163]

The same goes for chanting the Our Father in the customary American setting.

What is the customary American seting? In my experience, the sung setting of the Our Father with which most Catholics in the USA are familiar is the traditional Latin setting, simply sung in English.

Even on things like the Easter dismissal with the melismatic alleluias, which can only be done from the Easter Vigil to Pentecost…

Actually, the rubrics direct that the Easter dismissal be used only during the Easter Octave.

 

[MarkThompson]

What is the customary American seting? In my experience, the sung setting of the Our Father with which most Catholics in the USA are familiar is the traditional Latin setting, simply sung in English.

I’ve looked in vain for sheet music that would explain what I mean, but I think this is a good illustration of the difference: if the words “who art” move up a minor third from “who” to “art,” that’s the Latin setting; if they move down a whole step, that’s the setting that’s more common in the U.S. There’s also a more song-like version that I haven’t heard in quite a while, but it can be distinguished by “hal - low - ed” as three syllables (quarter-note, eighth-note, eighth-note), and generally making you want to sway back and forth.

So, ICEL’s introduction to the musical settings for the new translations says (pp. 11-12):
The “Our Father” presents an interesting pastoral conundrum. In the United States, a very successful simplified setting with admirable treatment of the English language is already widely used. Australia has its own widely used setting based closely on the Latin Pater noster, and other countries have their own settings as well. Many would regret tampering with an element of the reformed liturgy that the people sing so well. Several possible pastoral solutions were given serious consideration. ICEL could have selected one from the many current settings of various countries to include in the Roman Missal. Or ICEL could have refrained from proposing a revised setting, with the suggestion that each country retain what is presently in use. After much consideration it was decided to offer to all the Conferences of Bishops a new setting based on the Latin Pater noster (GR 812, GS 9‐10). Each country will examine the setting and decide whether or not to introduce it, either alongside or as a replacement for settings currently in use.

Actually, the rubrics direct that the Easter dismissal be used only during the Easter Octave.

You’re right, except that it’s also used on Pentecost.

 

[Bluegoat]

Here is a link to the bulletin at our church, which shows how we do it. We do sing some of the responses that are not printed, such as “And with thy Spirit”. They are short and simple, and are very easily learned. But the gradual and indroit are different every week, and are printed in the bulletin along with the music - you only need the ending for the phrase since each phrase is the same so it doesn’t take up much space. (There is I am sure a more technical way to describe this.)

I learned to do this as an adult, I don’t really follow the printed music as much as I do the other singers because my ear is better than my reading, but others find it helpful. We do have a strong choir.

I have seen this done with the organ as well, when the congregation did not have strong singers, with the idea that this was a temporary measure. But I would say that the biggest thing is to get the choir to practice these responses, to work really hard so they can lead the congregation.

 

[Chatter163]

You’re right, except that it’s also used on Pentecost.

Source?

 

[MarkThompson]

Source?

Gregorian Missal (Solesmes), p. 348; available at this link (25 MB pdf): “From the Easter Vigil to the Second Sunday of Easter inclusive and on the day of Pentecost, the dimissal [sic] is sung as follows:”. It’s just a missal, so it could be wrong (there are plenty of typos, including “dimissal” in that sentence), but that’s my source.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Much good advice above. But this seems a dubious statistic.

So here’s my question–how are we who did not grow up with these chants

(over half the Catholic church in the U.S. are converts, based on stats that I've read)

–supposed to learn these chants if they’re only done a few times a year?

However, even if it is true, it puts me in mind of an acquaintance, who while he was becoming a US citizen used to complain: *“I have to live in this country for 5 years before they’ll let me vote!” *To which I replied: “Consider yourself lucky – I had to live in this country for 18 years before they let me vote, and I was born here!”

And the point remains the same: Even for chants only trotted out once a year, I expect that by the time you have been Catholic for 20 or 30 years, you will have learned them.

Thanks for your suggestions. Happy Easter.

And a Blessed Easter to you too!
tee

 

[benedictgal]

For whatever it’s worth, here is an excellent resource from the Archdiocese of St. Louis. These can be used without having to worry about copyright issues:

archstl.org/worship/page/institute-sacred-music-easter-chants

I am going to print these up for my parish. My parochial vicar is quite interested in using them.

Remember that the faithful only have to worry about the refrains, as the cantor/choir sings the verses.

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve mentioned this on other threads before, and I’ve decided to start my own thread in the hopes that there will be some good, practical suggestions.

I attended Easter Vigil Mass last night as I usually do–what a joy! We had about a dozen baptisms–rapture! And everyone was so happy and it was so wonderful to sing Alleluia again!

But…

Several times through the Mass, the deacon chanted, and the people were expected to chant a response (in English, BTW).

It was pathetic. Even though there was a choir, because of the architecture of our church (1970s clamshell), it is difficult to hear them. And I don’t think many of them were singing the responses, just as most people in the nave were not singing. It literally sounded like a really sick, puny, group of kitty cats trying to cough up hairballs. Not a good witness to Christ or to non-Catholics in attendance.

I love to sing and sing reasonably well, and I joyously sang all the other hymns, including a full version of Handel’s Hallelujah Chorus.

But like all the other people, I stood there like a dummy during the chant responses. I had no idea what to sing, either words or tune. Because of this, I stayed silent. I can’t sing what I don’t know.

So here’s my question–how are we who did not grow up with these chants (over half the Catholic church in the U.S. are converts, based on stats that I’ve read)–supposed to learn these chants if they’re only done a few times a year?

I would have like to have seen the chants (words and score) projected on the screen (which is seldom used in our church) so that I could read the words and music and sing out. This would help all the people in the congregation who do not read music to learn them, too.

Passing out words/music on paper would have been useless, as several times, the chants and responses happened during the “darkness” and we wouldn’t be able to read paper copy.

I honestly don’t know the answer to this. I suppose many of you will say, “They should do the chants more than a few times a year.”

Actually, our parish does quite a bit of the chanting, but it’s always the same–most people don’t seem to know the chants, so we all stand there, even those of us who love to sing. Is there some kind of rubric that forbids printing these chants and responses (either overhead or on paper) so that music readers can learn them?

I think that if it’s not done well, it shouldn’t be done at all. It’s silly for a person to stand up in front and chant (badly, BTW), and then stand there waiting while only a few people out of a thousand know what they are supposed to sing. It looks and sounds really pathetic, and I don’t think anything in the Holy Mass should be “pathetic.”

So if they’re going to do it (chant), they have to teach it. Realistically, how can that be done?

Thanks for your suggestions. Happy Easter.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again - read ahead in the Missal, before you come to Mass. The tunes and the words are all there, and if you read them ahead of time, you’ll be ready for them, instead of frantically flipping through the pages trying to find what page we’re on - or being totally lost.

 

[Bluegoat]

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again - read ahead in the Missal, before you come to Mass. The tunes and the words are all there, and if you read them ahead of time, you’ll be ready for them, instead of frantically flipping through the pages trying to find what page we’re on - or being totally lost.

This is good advice for an individual who wants to be able to sing the responses, but not so much for addressing the difficulty at the level of the congregation. A lot of people just wouldn’t get to it, and of course many don’t read music anyway.

I really think the choir, if there is one, is the answer. They should all have the music in their folders or binders, and they should practice the whole thing until they can lead it convincingly. Ideally they could even practice the responses on one or two occasions with the actual priest - dealing with a priest who’s singing is a bit wonky can be different than a cantor who sings what he is supposed to every time.

If the choir sounds loud and sure, the congregation will follow. A lot more people will sing out if they have heard the responses a few times before AND are confident that others will as well.

 

[MarkThompson]

Gregorian Missal (Solesmes), p. 348; available at this link (25 MB pdf): “From the Easter Vigil to the Second Sunday of Easter inclusive and on the day of Pentecost, the dimissal [sic] is sung as follows:”. It’s just a missal, so it could be wrong (there are plenty of typos, including “dimissal” in that sentence), but that’s my source.

As an update, you can also check out this dispatch from Zenit, which also confirms using the double alleluia dismissal on Pentecost.

 

[Brendan]

Cat,

The vast majority of people learn melodies quickly. That is why they can remember these chants from year to year ( or recall the words to a song they used to hear on the radio decades ago simply by hearing it again).

Likewise, the vast majority of people do not sight read music.

So producing the sheet music for chants, or worse, projecting them, is not generally of benefit ( especially since chant uses a different notation anyway).

What I would suggest is that if you are planning on going to a ‘special’ Mass, such as Holy Thursday, Christmas Midnight Mass or especially the Easter Vigil, contact the parish prior to get a copy of the settings to be used at Mass.