How are we saved?

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Lot’s of folks misunderstand what Catholics believe about salvations. So what do you think?
 
You can choose more then one answer. Hint: the top 6 encompass what the Catholic Church teaches.
 
Thanks for the hint I was going into a panic:eek: God Bless
 
Happy New Year Church

I wish I had read your posts before I voted. When I thought I had one vote, I could only say “By cooperating with God’s Grace”.
Doesn’t that pretty much include all of the 6? We are saved by the Grace of God but we also must cooperate.
 
I don’t think this this option is fair.

“By faith alone. I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. Then I can sin all I want and it won’t matter. I don’t have to do any works of love or pray or anything. I can do what I want.”

It shows a great lack of understanding of the Evangelical postition.

Remember, when presenting the postition of another, do it in such a way that they would listen to it and say, “That is exactly what we believe.” Otherwise, it is the very definition of a straw man.

I am looking for an honest answer. Do all Catholics really believe that this is a fair discription of the Evangelical postition of how a person is saved?

Michael
 
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michaelp:
I don’t think this this option is fair.

“By faith alone. I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. Then I can sin all I want and it won’t matter. I don’t have to do any works of love or pray or anything. I can do what I want.”…

I am looking for an honest answer. Do all Catholics really believe that this is a fair discription of the Evangelical postition of how a person is saved?

Michael
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If I hadn’t known Cestus for several years in forums, I would probably have thought much like you do. However, knowing he is a convert and came out of the Protestant faith, is now a Catholic Priest and has one of the nuttiest sense of humors you can imagine, I simply laugh at many of his posts.
The problem is, he either forgets others do not know all of this or this is the way he chooses to introduce himself to strangers. Frankly, people either like him for who he is or he drives them to tearing their hair out. He rarely sparks indifference.

CD, hope you don’t mind (too much) me jumping in here. I am fully aware you know both the Protestant and the Catholic position better than most of us.
 
I voted for, Through the merits of Christ’s passion and death If he didn’t die for us, then there would be no Salvation…
 
Michael,
Roberta knows me well the last one was for fun. However, I have known a few fundamentalists who would find no fault in it.
 
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michaelp:
I don’t think this this option is fair.

“By faith alone. I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. Then I can sin all I want and it won’t matter. I don’t have to do any works of love or pray or anything. I can do what I want.”

It shows a great lack of understanding of the Evangelical postition.

Remember, when presenting the postition of another, do it in such a way that they would listen to it and say, “That is exactly what we believe.” Otherwise, it is the very definition of a straw man.

I am looking for an honest answer. Do all Catholics really believe that this is a fair discription of the Evangelical postition of how a person is saved?

Michael
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Michael I am Catholic and I know you don’t believe that;) Usually it is fundamentals,but he didn’t say evangelicals:confused: Any way,we love you.God Bless
 
To answer Michaelp, I don’t think this is exactly what evangelicals beleive. They beleive that; 1.You must admit that you are a sinner and in need of a savior. 2. You must accept Jesus Christ as lord and saviour and repent of all sins. Repent meaning that you will turn from your previous sinful life and vow to walk a christian life. Sure you will be tempted and commits sins, this is known as backsliding. Then one must come to the “foot of the cross” ask God for forgivness and then continue on the straight and narrow once again. Much like Catholics go to confession. Evangelicals beleive one can go straight to God for forgiveness. Depending on what protestant denomination you belong to will depend on what is taught as to “once saved always saved.”

Any evangelical will tell you that if a person prays the “Sinners Prayer” and then continues in a life of sin as before will say that person was never saved. He may have said the prayer with his lips but not his heart, in other words he never really repented. Thereby never received God’s sactifying grace.

A person who is truly saved will do good works, as a result of there salvation not for it, regulary ateend church services, be an active member of their church community, do daily bible devotions, yada yada yada.

I say all this with experience. I was baptized and raised Catholic and then left the church for various protestant religions before finally setting on the Baptist church.
 
Mike,
So you can say the sinners prayer, but if you then sin you were never really saved? This is why the assurance of salvation thing breaks down. There is no real assurance since anyone can backslide. The only alternative is how I phrased it on option 7. I have met baptists who would actually agree with it.
 
Peace be with you all.

I would suggest that we are saved by God’s Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ.

In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation–in Him when you believed–were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. - Eph 1:13

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is* the gift of God:* - Eph 2:8
Peace.
 
I attended a fundamentalist Baptist church for several years and they actually believed this. Once saved always saved, no matter what sins you committed. Even if you turned your back on God.

I remember once they did skit. They simulated that an entire family perished in a fire that was started by there teeanage daughter who blew the entire house to bits while committing suicide.

The seen was the family standing at the pealy gates being judged. All were damned to hell except for the sucidal girl because she accepted Christ as her saviour in a sunday school class when she was a little girl but never went to church since.
 
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cestusdei:
Mike,
So you can say the sinners prayer, but if you then sin you were never really saved? This is why the assurance of salvation thing breaks down. There is no real assurance since anyone can backslide. The only alternative is how I phrased it on option 7. I have met baptists who would actually agree with it.
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But absent mortal sin and I suppose profound self-deception, can we have reasonable moral assurance? If we persist in following Christ, in charity? I know we can’t have absolute assurance, because we cannot see the future and we do not know if we will despair and apostacize or become proudly presumptious. But isn’t there a middle line between absolute “once saved, always saved” and abject fear and scrupulosity? Wouldn’t the virtue of hope be “good and confident hope,” provided we perservere?
 
michaelp said:
“By faith alone. I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. Then I can sin all I want and it won’t matter. I don’t have to do any works of love or pray or anything. I can do what I want.”

I am looking for an honest answer. Do all Catholics really believe that this is a fair discription of the Evangelical postition of how a person is saved?
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Hi michaelp - Happy New Year-

I think it was pretty clear that this was a tongue in cheek cariacture. But it does bring out the truth, as others have pointed out, that this would be (and sometimes is) the logical – and, even worse the practical – conclusion of the once saved-always-saved-works-are-useless system of belief. Just as it is unfair to paint all evangelicals with this type of presumption in belief, it is also no use denying that many Protestants believe this in practice. The reason Catholics can easily cariacture this type of theology is because it as been used so often as a club to beat Catholics for their alleged “crass works-righteousness.”
 
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michaelp:
I don’t think this this option is fair.

“By faith alone. I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. Then I can sin all I want and it won’t matter. I don’t have to do any works of love or pray or anything. I can do what I want.”

It shows a great lack of understanding of the Evangelical postition.

Remember, when presenting the postition of another, do it in such a way that they would listen to it and say, “That is exactly what we believe.” Otherwise, it is the very definition of a straw man.

I am looking for an honest answer. Do all Catholics really believe that this is a fair discription of the Evangelical postition of how a person is saved?

Michael
Click to expand...
Hi Michael,

I want to understand the evangelical position, but I’m unclear. As I said on two other threads, I don’t understand what the consequences of sin are to a saved non-Catholic. I’m not bating, I genuinely want to know.

If all sin is not equal, there must be some consequence for serious sin. Please answer me here or in the one of the other threads. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=30349

If you’ve already answered elsewhere, please direct me to that thread.

Thanks and God Bless,

Robert.
 
Actually I’d hoped for additional options like these:

God (the Son) became a human so that humans might become divine (i.e., sharing God’s energies but not essence).
– Athanasius, THE INCARNATION OF THE WORD

God the Son transforms human nature (in toto), and God the Holy Spirit transforms human persons (sacraments).
– Vladimir Lossky, THE MYSTICAL THEOLOGY OF THE EASTERN CHURCH

But option 6 encompasses these.

I opted for first six. I am a former fundamentalist Baptist who was taught the errant soteriology CD+ mentioned in the last option. He is not exaggerating. Perhaps he knows from experience?

To be deep in the Fathers is to cease to be Fundamentalist.

Cheers,
 
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Mike61:
To answer Michaelp, I don’t think this is exactly what evangelicals beleive. They beleive that; 1.You must admit that you are a sinner and in need of a savior. 2. You must accept Jesus Christ as lord and saviour and repent of all sins. Repent meaning that you will turn from your previous sinful life and vow to walk a christian life.
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Does this seem like a kind of work? Admit, accept, repent, commit to Christ. I understand that this is having faith, but the evangelical Christian account of salvation through faith alone seems to make faith into a kind of work. For such Christians, there is only one act of faith/work (once-saved-always-saved) whereas Catholics (and some evangelical protestants) see faith as a life-long process expressed and mediated through the works wherein we cooperate with God’s grace. It seems to me that both faith-alone Christians (though they don’t realize that this is the implication) and Catholics (and some other Christians) both believe in faith with/through works, but the former reduce faith to a one-time work (an act of the will: believe!) whereas the latter see faith as requiring a life-time of works.
 
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