How are we saved?

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I am Roman Catholic and the word “saved” is not in my eclesiasitical vocabulary.

Catholics aren’t “saved”. Protestants talk about being “saved”.
 
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awalt:
I tihnk you have missed a good answer in Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God— 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Doesn’t this seem clear?
  1. God offers grace, meaning a gift of salvation is offered.
  2. We accept it through faith (or sections say our faith grows through hearing the Word of God)
  3. We have nothing to do with it, it would be like boasting someone else gave you a nice gift - why boast, what did you do, accept it? Big deal 😃
  4. God’s plan for us is not just about salvation, it’s about salvation so we can glorify God through the good works we do. Other verses say that the lack of good works are ***indication ***the faith is not there, they are ***not ***directly a cause of our salvation – in other words they are a result. God saves us for good works, not just to save us.
That said, the poll does not give me the ability to enter in the correct answer 😉
Yep, that’s what I said earlier. I cannot give a correct answer in such a poll.

It is not BY our good works that we are saved, but that is only because good works is a PART of our faith, as mentioned in James 2:17-26. Faith is dead without good works.

Even in Ephesians 2:8-10, the verses Protestants use most to prove that we are not saved by good works, it mentions that we shold live in the god works that God has prepared in advance. Although I still think James 2:17-26 states the need for good works most explicitly.

Another thing is, I noticed 2 very conflicting chocies in the poll. The virtues of faith, hope and love and by faith alone.

In 1 Corinthians 13, it is mentioned that among faith, hope and love, love is the greatest. That is, faith in God, and a hope for salvation, but love is the most important.

Love being the most important is emphasized most especially in Luke when Jesus speaks of the great commandment. Love the Lord your God… and love your neighbour as yourself. Love is therefore important too.

We must, then, as Christians, act out our love - and the best way to do so is to do good works, not as a means of “advertizing” your love, but rather in a personal manner. This doing of good works as love therefore brings us back to faith and then salvation.

Clearly, we must love others and bring ourselves to do good to be assured of salvation. 🙂
 
yes as with me the correct answer was not in the poll… We are saved by faith alone… these good works stem out of our faith. If we truly accept christ then we automatically want to be like him and in doing so we do good works which in turn glorify him.
 
We are saved by God’s grace or undeserved favor. It was God’s grace that gave us his Son to die for us on Calvary’s cross and be raised to life, so we may have eternal life. But even though God has shown us grace in Jesus Christ we must put forth faith to receive the fullness of his grace. And this is through the sacraments of the church. A person must believe, come to contrition and penance, be baptized and receive the Lord at Eucharist. God gives his grace THROUGH these sacraments, which are nothing more than outward signs that we can see and understand of God’s grace.
Our faith is not a one time event, but a faith that we show in life, what God expects us to do, our whole Christian life. From our confirmation til we draw our last breath. We can then say with Paul, "I have KEPT the faith, henceforth there is laid up for me a crown."
 
we are saved by grace, through faith and that faith must be accompanied by works.
 
Wahoo, hey wake up.

I was surprised at the poll results. Any Catholic who walks into a Church will see the Crucifix up behind the Altar.

Why is it there? You don’t see a big sign with the words “Grace”, “Works” or “Prayer” up there do you?

If Jesus had not come to earth as a Man-God and also died on the cross…would our sins be forgiven? His blood had to be shed as in the Old Testament Sacrifices. It was Christ’s death that released all the Spirits who lived before Christ and were in the prison. (1st Peter 3:19 ) No one but maybe three people had gone to heaven before Christ died.

Without Jesus Christ’s death aand spilling of blood, none would have a chance. BTW, “saved” is a Protestant term. Are you awake now?
 
michaelp said:
“By faith alone. I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. Then I can sin all I want and it won’t matter. I don’t have to do any works of love or pray or anything. I can do what I want.”

It shows a great lack of understanding of the Evangelical postition.

Nevertheless, this is the belief that a very large number of people have. And, they get this notion from evangelicals, whether or not that is what ideas evangelicals think they are propagating. They need to include a lot more specific detail in their teaching and preaching in order to avoid leading people into this kind of error.

May the Almighty bless you. May He cause His face to shine upon you. May He grant you His peace.
 
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michaelp:
I don’t think this this option is fair.

“By faith alone. I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. Then I can sin all I want and it won’t matter. I don’t have to do any works of love or pray or anything. I can do what I want.”

It shows a great lack of understanding of the Evangelical postition.
No… this is not what evangelicals believe. Evangelicals believe that yes by faith alone i accept Jesus as my personal lord and savior. However they dont believe that we can sin all we want and it wont matter. Evangelicals believe that every action u do is accountable to the lord. And if after accepting christ by faith alone u keep on sinning all u want and dont even want to do whats right and follow god… well then thats the line where u really want to look back and see if u really truly did accept christ. you cant just accept him with faith and not want to be like him. Anyway evangelicals believe that what we do are a result of our accepting jesus by faith alone. They dont believe that you can go on sinning all u want and it wont matter
 
No… this is not what evangelicals believe. Evangelicals believe that yes by faith alone i accept Jesus as my personal lord and savior. However they dont believe that we can sin all we want and it wont matter. Evangelicals believe that every action u do is accountable to the lord. And if after accepting christ by faith alone u keep on sinning all u want and dont even want to do whats right and follow god… well then thats the line where u really want to look back and see if u really truly did accept christ. you cant just accept him with faith and not want to be like him. Anyway evangelicals believe that what we do are a result of our accepting jesus by faith alone. They dont believe that you can go on sinning all u want and it wont matter
A Protestant explained to me that through faith alone someone is “saved” and because of one’s faith he/she does good works. And as for our sins, they do not have an influence on one’s salvation, but only “rewards” in Heaven.

(I disagree with this view.)

God Bless,
Elizabeth
 
Thanks for posting these resources. I’m gonna have to check them out. Another book Dave Armstrong promotes is “The Catholic Verses,” and it’s probably a good book to read as well.

Don
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twf:
For a good defence of the Catholic understanding of justification and salvation, from the perspectives of two Evangelical converts to Catholicism, I highly recommend the relevent chaptes in Dave Armstrong’s A Biblical Defence of Catholicism (you can get this cheap in .doc format, his site is ic.net/~erasmus/BOOKS.HTM) and David Currie’s Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic, which is avaliable on amazon and such…and I think on this very site as well.

Here’s an explanation of the Catholic understanding of justification as I understand it that I wrote for another thread once:
The Church teaches that justification is by grace through faith and works. Sola fide (faith alone) is rejected by the Church as heresy, but sola gracia (grace alone) is upheld as sound teaching. We must realize that neither faith nor works can save us. All the faith in the world would be nothing, without grace. Likewise, all the works under the sun would be, as you said in the other thread, like filthy rags without grace. This is where the distinction must be made. Both faith and works are worthless if they do not flow from God’s grace. Our salvation is only made possible because Christ took our eternal penalty on the tree at Calvary; however, this perfect work of Christ must be applied to each of us. God has given us freewill, so we must accept this gift and co-operate with him. Not just once (the moment you accept Christ), but all through our lives. Catholics can say that we merit salvation, but only in a secondary and derivative sense. The grace that Christ gives us leads to faith. This grace-empowered faith leads to works. The two go hand in hand. Our faith and works become our way of co-operating with God’s plan for our salvation, and become worthy of merit before God because Christ’s merit is applied to us through his grace. Do you understand what I am saying? The faith and works in and of themselves are nothing, but when they flow from the grace Christ has given us, they become creditable.

One thing that really hit home for me was the realization that even the Evangelical position requires human effort to obtain salvation. If we are to say that there is nothing we can do to be saved, then logically, all human beings should be saved automatically…as Christ’s grace would be universally applied; however, we know that this is not the case. Even in the Evangelical view, one must make an conscious act of the will, exert a mental effort, to decide to accept Christ and to repent of one’s sins. In a sense, this is a work, as it is an act of the will, and takes effort on our part. But this is only made possible by grace in the first place (remember, the Father must draw us to His Son before we can accept Him), so we can not take credit for it, even though our effort was involved. So once you realize that even the Evangelical view requires human effort, it falls into place (at least for me) that works, those that are the fruit of the grace God has given us, can also play a role in our part in salvation.

If you are to say that salvation involves no effort on our part, then even personal repentance should be unnecessary. Every step of the way, we must choose to continue to co-operate with God, or to reject His grace. We should not be terrified, however, for we trust that God will always provide us with the grace necessary to persevere.
 
i am an evangelical and i have a The statement of faith of the evangelical free church of america and ill quote what evangelicals believe… “6. That the shed blood of jesus christ and his ressurection provide the only ground for justification and salvation for all who believe, and only such as receive jesus christ are born of the holy spirit and thus become children of god. Salvation is through Christ alone, is by grace through faith, and is a gift; it cannot be earned. (John 1:2, 3:16; Rom 5:8, 6:23; 1 Cor 5:21; Eph 2:8-9; 1 Pet 2:24)” " 7. That water baptism and the Lord’s supper are ordinances to be observed by the Church during the present age. They are, however, not to be regarded as means of salvation. An ordinance is something christ commanded us to observe. We are not saved by baptism or the Lord’s Supper.(Matt. 28:18-20; 1 Cor. 11:23-26)" " That the true church is composed of all such persons who through saving faith in jesus christ have been regenerated by the holy spirit and are united together in the body of which He is the Head. The Church includes all believers everywhere. (Matt 16:18; 1 Cor. 12:12-13; Eph. 4:4)"

Anyway hope that helps out
 
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bkniceley:
That the true church is composed of all such persons who through saving faith in jesus christ have been regenerated by the holy spirit and are united together in the body of which He is the Head. The Church includes all believers everywhere. (Matt 16:18; 1 Cor. 12:12-13; Eph. 4:4)"

Anyway hope that helps out
If you’re still there…I wonder about this idea of a Church (I’m still trying to figure out what my Lutheran family believe). Do you mean it’s not necessarily identifiable and visible?
Does that mean its purpose regarding the “binding and loosing” of sins, that Christ gave it, doesn’t apply to our salvation? Also, I think of the Etheopian and Philip; don’t you think believers are to follow that example, which means following someone who’s been given specific authority to teach the truth?

Peace.
John
 
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bkniceley:
No… this is not what evangelicals believe. Evangelicals believe that yes by faith alone i accept Jesus as my personal lord and savior. However they dont believe that we can sin all we want and it wont matter. Evangelicals believe that every action u do is accountable to the lord. And if after accepting christ by faith alone u keep on sinning all u want and dont even want to do whats right and follow god… well then thats the line where u really want to look back and see if u really truly did accept christ. you cant just accept him with faith and not want to be like him. Anyway evangelicals believe that what we do are a result of our accepting jesus by faith alone. They dont believe that you can go on sinning all u want and it wont matter
Good post.

This is the best summary of the Evangelical position:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to remain in sin so that grace may increase? Absolutely not! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, *he is *a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

The idea is that once you trust in Christ as your Lord and Savior, you do not continue in sin. Why? Because your old nature, which continually desires sin is not in control any longer. You are a new creature with new passions and desires.

It is like Luther said when someone objected to his position concering justification by faith alone saying that if it were true then everyone can do whatever they please. Luther responded, “This is true, now what pleases you.”

Christians have the regenerative power of the Holy Spirit in our lives. We have new pleasures, not of our own making, but of the making of the Holy Spirit. This way, we truly serve God, not out of obligation, fear of punishment, or with a sour face, but because we are drawn to his beauty, knowing that He freely gave to us a gift we did not deserve or earn in any way.

What a glorious thing salvation is!

Michael
 
bk,
The Bible says “now baptism saves you” and “if you would have my life in you then you must eat my flesh and drink my blood”. I assume those are ignored in EFC doctrine. I have dealt with the EFC’s before and they show a particular reluctance to consider Catholics to be Christian.
 
well i dono how u heard that but the efc’s do believe that catholics are christians. the efc believes that baptism is an outward expression of an inward change. Theres a whole section on baptism and communion in their statements.
 
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Exporter:
BTW, “saved” is a Protestant term. Are you awake now?
then why is the term all throughout the new testament? paul talks about being “saved” quite a lot.
 
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Exporter:
I am Roman Catholic and the word “saved” is not in my eclesiasitical vocabulary.

Catholics aren’t “saved”. Protestants talk about being “saved”.
I’m Roman as well, but your view is unbiblical and probably not helpful for the conversion of our seperated brethren. Of course we are saved, but we also are being saved, and hopefully we will be saved. I can declare with all honesty and theological certainty that “yes, I’m saved.” This however does not mean “once saved always saved” by any means. We should rejoice in our salvation through Christ our Lord. We should tell others of this joy.

Bottom line: people NEED to be saved; hell is real and is forever and Christ speaks about it very clearly and emphatically. If we are not saved, then what’s the point of being a Catholic/Christian?

Just because Protestants talk about being saved, does not mean we can’t. We can talk about it with the CORRECT understanding as it is directly from Christ.

peace…
 
This is an easy one. When the devil is attacking throw this at him.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch
 
Straight from the “horses mouth.” A Baptst who tells me on another forum that we can not lose our salvation:

Now, regarding stat’s post. It is the wonderful truth of Hebrews 12 that if we receive God’s discipline we are His children! We will never lose the gift of eternal life that He has given us. We will be instructed and punished and chastened and pruned…but never cast away (we have nothing in us that obtained justification. We have received Christ’s perfect righteousness in our account and that account is settled. any and all actions after earthly justification are negative or positive only insomuch as they affect our continued fellowship with Christ).

Romans teaches us that God’s wrath in individuals is actually the opposite of discipline. GodÕs wrath in the present is the allowance of sin to fulfill its necessary conclusion of death in those who sin. A beautiful truth arises from this understanding for those of us who find ourselves in the throes of GodÕs discipline and are confused about GodÕs intentions toward us. We as justified believers will never again have to face the wrath of God! While we may be punished in this world and still experience dire consequences for our sin, we have assurance that this is merely His discipline to us (Heb. 12:7). Acts of His that cause pain are reassurance of His place for us. Trials that result from our own sin are His way of reassuring us that we are still His, that He still has use for us. This is a profoundly comforting truth to understand. True wrath, when understood in terms of Rom. 1, would be for Him to give us over to the degradation of sin and lust that destroys our dignity, removes hope, and eventually causes the Òdue penaltyÓ of sin to be received in our own bodies (Rom. 1:27).

This is the beauty and hope and power and comfort of the Gospel. The Almighty God will not punish us in wrath for our sins. He will discipline us like a Father who loves His child, to correct us, and make us into something more righteous. But we never have to fear His dislike or unacceptance. We need to fear His authority as any child who lives in His FatherÕs household and we should fear the working out of His discipline as the negative motivation toward righteousness. But the most painful discipline is meant to make us the most joyful persons, for never will we be His enemy, always His sons and daughters, always His beloved, no matter how unworthy we are, and no matter how far we fall.
 
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