How are we saved?

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mesl4

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As a Protestant, we often say, “We are saved by believing the Gospel, or putting our trust in Jesus/giving Him our life.”

The Bible says the gospel is the good news that God sent his only Son, the Messiah, the annointed one, to save Jews and Gentiles by dying for our sins, and rising from the dead and that we too will rise from the dead.

How do Catholics say we are saved? If I were an atheist or another religion or knew nothing about Christ/ God, and asked how I can go to Heaven/( Which I guess I wouldn’t ask if I were an atheist, but play along…), what would you say?
 
Well we would say that believing that Jesus is sent to make it possible for all of us to live eternally with God is an essential first step. But we would go on to say that what is really necessary is not only believing but believing so much that we enter into a true loving relationship where we want to demonstrate our love not just by acclamations and words but also by deeds. We first have to be spiritually realigned and reformed through a water baptism since this is the way God told us to begin our relationship. After baptism we are like a new being suitable for God to transform into His children. So We would also qualify what we said prior about believing and entering into a loving relationship by saying that we humans are totally ill equipped to really please God on our own. Because of that God gives us His special divine graces that we may cooperate with to progressively learn how to love God and SERVE God and spiritually grow. I would also say that our initial belief comes from a thing called faith - itself a gift of God that we normally get through The Church. So now I would explain how important the church is as our family and how we all help each other to grow in the faith and develop progressively deeper belief that touches us intellectually and spiritually at our core. I would explain the sacraments that are availble only through the Church and how they are like special channels to grace to help us deal with “being human” and to overcome our old nature that tends to want to hold us back.

I would probably say that we start off like a child learning how to walk and as we get stronger and learn how to walk and mature we are able to express our love in a more adult way and progressively please God by responding more fully to His love. I would explain the nature of grace and how it always proves itself and return a greater good to God and permits us to do good works for God and perhaps help others come to know Him too or let’s us help our spiritual family with our personal gifts. But I would caution that we mus trust in God to save us at the same time we cooperate with God and not resist his love and even on occasions take the harder path rather than the easier path since all who are baptised into Christ will be called to serve and even to suffer and prove that our faith and love is not just superficial and just “for the reward” but out of love and the intrinsic reward we get in knowing we can please such an awesome God who is higher above us than all the stars and galaxies in the night sky.

That’s enough to get people seeing the basics and asking questions…

James
 
We are saved through the grace that comes from the salvation of Jesus Christ. When we accept this grace through faith, and respond working in love, we participate in our his ongoing work of salvation within us 🙂
 
mesl4 said:
As a Protestant, we often say, “We are saved by believing the Gospel, or putting our trust in Jesus/giving Him our life.”
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One problem Catholics find with this statement is that it allows no salvation for babies, toddlers, or mentally incompetent adults.

We believe we are saved by grace, which Jesus won for us by his shed blood. The ordinary method through which one receives that grace is the sacraments, particularly the initial sacrament of baptism. If during the course of our lives we lose the state of grace due to mortal sin, we must return to the state of grace through repentance and, under ordinary circumstances, through sacramental confession.
 
mesl4 said:
As a Protestant, we often say, “We are saved by believing the Gospel, or putting our trust in Jesus/giving Him our life.”

The Bible says the gospel is the good news that God sent his only Son, the Messiah, the annointed one, to save Jews and Gentiles by dying for our sins, and rising from the dead and that we too will rise from the dead.

How do Catholics say we are saved? If I were an atheist or another religion or knew nothing about Christ/ God, and asked how I can go to Heaven/( Which I guess I wouldn’t ask if I were an atheist, but play along…), what would you say?
Click to expand...
Protestants don’t understand the difference between redemption and salvation. Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross redeemed us but did not save us. Redemption has given us the opportunity for salvation but that does not come simply by saying I believe in Christ. Salvation is not by faith alone.
 
Gamera said:
One problem Catholics find with this statement is that it allows no salvation for babies, toddlers, or mentally incompetent adults.

We believe we are saved by grace, which Jesus won for us by his shed blood. The ordinary method through which one receives that grace is the sacraments, particularly the initial sacrament of baptism. If during the course of our lives we lose the state of grace due to mortal sin, we must return to the state of grace through repentance and, under ordinary circumstances, through sacramental confession.
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I would like to add that sacraments are useless without personal faith. The two are inexorably linked. Just as faith without works is dead, sacraments and works can avail us nothing without faith.
 
foundthelight said:
I would like to add that sacraments are useless without personal faith.
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Just to clarify a little: in the case of infants or incompetent adults, the faith of the parents and/or godparents supplies at the time of baptism.

It might be compared to Our Lord’s healing of children because of the request and faith of parent/s or friends (eg. Mt 17:15; Mk 2:5).
 
Nita said:
Just to clarify a little: in the case of infants or incompetent adults, the faith of the parents and/or godparents supplies at the time of baptism.

It might be compared to Our Lord’s healing of children because of the request and faith of parent/s or friends (eg. Mt 17:15; Mk 2:5).
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👍
 
foundthelight said:
I would like to add that sacraments are useless without personal faith. The two are inexorably linked. Just as faith without works is dead, sacraments and works can avail us nothing without faith.
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Define “faith.” Please don’t quote the Heb. 11:1 passage. What is the content of the Catholic “faith” that saves?
 
moondweller said:
Define “faith.” Please don’t quote the Heb. 11:1 passage. What is the content of the Catholic “faith” that saves?
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Again, there is no Catholic “faith” ALONE that saves - grace alone saves.

Now, the “content” of the (Catholic) faith needed prior to being baptized in the Church and receiving the grace of salvation - in normal situations (which I think is what you are interested in):
**1) With adults and others who have reached the age of reason **- There would be instruction in the truths of the faith appropriate to age level. These of course include teachings about the Trinity, Incarnation, redemption, sacraments… Acceptance of these teachings as true.
A desire to receive the sacrament of Baptism

2) With children under the age of reason, or with adults mentally under the age of reason:Faith of the parent or godparent substitutes.

Now, there are abnormal situations - just a couple examples:
Imminent death where there is no time for instruction prior to baptism.

Non-believing parent or guardian may bring child for baptism. . Eg. they may be doing it at the request of a dying parent.
Priest would have to judge the situation and decide regarding wisdom of baptizing.
 
moondweller said:
You don’t know what your own “faith” is? Or you’re incapable of expressing it?
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Our faith is stated in the 2,865 paragraph Catechism of the Catholic Church, readily available online. Nobody is going to type out all 2,865 paragraphs for your convenience just because you don’t like links. That doesn’t mean we “don’t know” our faith or are “incapable of expressing” our faith. It just means we’re not going to spend a month typing to spare you the tenth of a second it takes to click on a link.
 
Nita said:
Again, there is no Catholic “faith” ALONE that saves - grace alone saves.

Now, the “content” of the (Catholic) faith needed to receive the grace of salvation in Baptism - in normal situations (which I think is what you are interested in):
**1) With adults and others who have reached the age of reason **- There would be instruction in the truths of the faith appropriate to age level. These of course include all the teachings about the Trinity, Incarnation, redemption, sacraments… Acceptance of these teachings as true.
A desire to receive the sacrament of Baptism

2) With children under the age of reason, or with adults mentally under the age of reason:Faith of the parent or godparent substitutes.

Now, there are abnormal situations - just a couple examples:
Imminent death where there is no time for instruction prior to baptism.

Non-believing parent or guardian may bring child for baptism. . Eg. they may be doing it at the request of a dying parent.
Priest would have to judge the situation and decide regarding wisdom of baptizing.
Click to expand...
Define “faith.” What is the content of Catholic “faith” that one must have along with participating in the sacraments for Catholics to be saved?
 
Gamera said:
Our faith is stated in the 2,865 paragraph Catechism of the Catholic Church, readily available online. Nobody is going to type out all 2,865 paragraphs for your convenience just because you don’t like links. That doesn’t mean we “don’t know” our faith or are “incapable of expressing” our faith. It just means we’re not going to spend a month typing to spare you the tenth of a second it takes to click on a link.
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That link employed the word “faith,” but I’m asking you to define it. What is the content of the catholic faith that saves: Sacraments plus faith. What is the “faith” part?
 
moondweller said:
Define “faith.” What is the content of Catholic “faith” that one must have along with participating in the sacraments for Catholics to be saved?
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This is an interesting question which seems to highlight, at least for me, a tremendous difference in understanding between Catholics and Protestants.

You see, moondweller, the partaking in the sacraments is an action taken in faith. A faith that says that if Christ said that we need to partake of these sacraments in addition to merely believing that He died for us then we must do so. We confess that Jesus is our Lord and Savior just as, I presume, you do. We also accept Him at his Word. A word that says we must partake of His Body and Blood. A Word that says we must be baptized. A Word that says we must do penance. A Word that says we must do good deeds, that faith alone without good deeds is dead. We don’t try to explain these teachings of Christ away. We just accept Him at His word.

A faith that denies these things is merely belief for it does not take action in faith. Even the demons believe, and they tremble in fear.
 
moondweller said:
Define “faith.” What is the content of Catholic “faith” that one must have along with participating in the sacraments for Catholics to be saved?
Click to expand...
It’s obviously different for different age levels. But let’s assume adult with normal mental capabilities - in normal U.S. circumstances:.
Faith in existence of one Triune God. (Three Persons in One God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

Faith in attributes (eg. omnipotent) and activities (eg. creation) ascribed to God

Faith that Second Person of the Trinity became man (Jesus) to redeem us and save us from our sins. That He was conceived in the Virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit. That He was crucified, died, and rose again on the third day. That He ascended into heaven and will come again to judge the living and the dead.

Faith that Jesus established His Church on the rock of Peter. Faith in the teachings His Church puts forward as true.

Faith that Jesus established sacraments to communicate His supernatural life (sanctifying grace) to us.

Faith in the need to be obedient to God if we wish to retain this new life in us.

Faith in the existence of the eternal states of heaven and hell.

Faith that after death we will be judged by Our Lord and spend eternity in one of those two states.

Those are the “bare bones”.
Now, the Church does not teach that a normal adult absolutely cannot be saved unless and until they have professed faith in all those teachings. If someone who was studying the faith because of a desire to love Our Lord, do His will, etc. were to die, we teach there is a high likelihood they would go to heaven. (They would be considered as having received a “baptism of desire”. The Church also teaches a “baptism of blood”.)

I am presuming when you say “to be saved”, you are referring to that initial reception of grace in the sacrament of Baptism. If you mean “saved” in the sense of spending eternity in heaven, then it is necessary to live so that we die in that state of grace.
We believe that deliberately sinning in a serious matter and not repenting is a rejection of God (rejection of Him as God, the One who has authority over us, to tell what we must do, what is right and wrong…). When we reject/separate ourselves from Him, we separate ourselves from His supernatural life of grace.
 
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