How are we saved?

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Catholics are seeking help outside the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church is not casting out demons and curing diseases. Spiritual warfare is a part of the whole truth of the Church that is written about by Paul in the book of Ephesians. Spiritual warfare is for the edification of the body of Christ and it’s a part of Christ’s instruction to the Church.

Mark 16:17 These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new languages;

Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, and cast out demons. Freely you received, so freely give.

Luke 9:1 He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases.
I agree, this is wrong. But I believe due to the fine line between spiritual warfare and superstition some are reluctant to take action but it is not the Church’s position to ignore the good fight as the Church does perform exorcisms. What some may be trying to avoid is supporting those cases they believe are based on superstition, which is what the Church is trying to correct. There have been many cases throughout History where the representatives of the CC had to better learn the ethnic beliefs of the locations they inhabited.
 
Hi Ed,

Jesus built only one Church. Singular. (Matthew 16:18) These individual “churches” spoken of in the NT are speaking of the “congregations” of this same one Church. They are named in order to distinguish where these individual congregations are located.

Rome (Italy) was spoken of in the NT. Hebrews 13:24 “Greet all those who rule over you, and all the saints. Those from Italy greet you.” (Acts 18:2, Acts 27:1-7) Babylon was a code name for pagan Rome according to some scholars and it is also mentioned. (1 Peter 5:13)

The Church is a society of believers with a hierarchy. Individuals have no authority in the Church. The hierarchy rules over the Church with Jesus’ authority. (Hebrews 13:7-24) God appoints these rulers and will appoint them until He returns. (1 Corinthians 12:28, 2 Timothy 1:10-12, 1 Timothy 2:6-8)

Ephesians 4:4-6 “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”

How does the Church continue its hierarchy with God’s authority down through the ages?

2 Timothy 2:2 “And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.”

So, if a person desires to be saved, then he should become a member of Christ’s one true Church and not be a member of a new “church” with a different gospel that is founded by a person who picked up a Bible and who decided to make his own church according to his own private individual interpretations of Scriptures. (2 Peter 1:20, 2 Peter 3:15-17, 2 Peter 2:1) 🙂
Can you tell me "who or what"is the church? Ralph
 
Prodical Son 1, On post 364, I quoted eight Scriptures concerning that God (Jesus) is the Rock including Peter himself states so, what am I to do cut them out of my Bible or ignore them? If this is to be a forum discussion, explain them to me, rather than trying to make me look foolish by your nasty statement that I take every resemblance of stone, rock to fit my view point.
There is no problem with Jesus being called the Rock and there is likewise no problem with him naming Peter, his vicar on earth , with the same name to demonstrate his authority. Because clearly he renamed Simon the rock (cephas in hebrew, Petros in Greek)
The statement that you make about Peter is to “bind and loosen” is also given to all the apostles Mat 18:18.
It is given to the Church, not to individual apostles in Matthew 18:18 and it says when 2 agree in prayer, it will be granted. Only to Peter is the ability to bind and loose an individual statement. and only Peter is given the Keys and only Peter is the rock on which Jesus will build his church.
I don’t care what the church Fathers say, the Bible is inspired not them.
Ed, the church fathers are our link to the past and they demonstrate the consistency of teaching to the Apostolic Age. Remember, the Canon of the Bible wasn’t finallized unitl 382…
Your putting much faith in the Peter Rock dogma, while the very first thing Peter did, after Jesus ascended to heaven was to make a “mistake”. He called a meeting to choose Matthias, with Paul that makes 13 apostles. Jesus in Mat19:28 states there will be twelve thrones, Rev 21:14 with twelve apostles names on them.
It’s pretty presumptuous to state that Peter made a mistake in naming Matthias an apostle. Remember, at the time that Peter named Matthias, Paul wasn’t even a Christian. By the time Paul would have any claim to be an Apostle, James had already been beheaded. I wouldn’t get too excited about who is on the twelve thrones, but I would suspect it is the original 12 apostles (including Matthias, who was with Jesus from the the beginning) and not St. Paul, who I am sure has a high place in heaven, but came later and under different circumstances…
Jesus the head of the church, He chooses the apostles not Peter.
Of course Jesus chose the Apostles but he also chose Peter to administer the church on earth. He was, after all, given the keys, and in John 21, he was told to tend the sheep…
These are valid questions. If you don’t know any of them, at least tell me so. Love in Christ ED
Of course they are valid questions. And we’ll keep trying to help you answer them to your satsifaction.
 
Can you tell me "who or what"is the church? Ralph
What an excellent question, ralph.

If you are sincerely trying to discover what the Church truly is, and not just looking for another reason to refute it, then I think you’d be best served by reading how The Church defines herself.

Click here

…and read at your leisure. Hit the NEXT button at the bottom of each page…about 4 or 5 pages will offer you all you ever wanted to know. Of course, if you’re not interested in reading it, you could just go after the short answers you’ll get here, and amuse yourself with telling us why we’re wrong.

God Bless.
 
What an excellent question, ralph.

If you are sincerely trying to discover what the Church truly is, and not just looking for another reason to refute it, then I think you’d be best served by reading how The Church defines herself.

Click here

…and read at your leisure. Hit the NEXT button at the bottom of each page…about 4 or 5 pages will offer you all you ever wanted to know. Of course, if you’re not interested in reading it, you could just go after the short answers you’ll get here, and amuse yourself with telling us why we’re wrong.

God Bless.
That is a lot of reading, however it all leads back to the fact (according to the Roman Catholic church) that if you do not belong to the Roman catholic church, then you do not belong to “the church”. The Bible says that the called out ones (those who are born again) belong to the Body of Christ which is His church. There are no denominations mentioned in the bible, but there are churches mentioned. Ralph
 
That is a lot of reading, however it all leads back to the fact (according to the Roman Catholic church) that if you do not belong to the Roman catholic church, then you do not belong to “the church”. The Bible says that the called out ones (those who are born again) belong to the Body of Christ which is His church. There are no denominations mentioned in the bible, but there are churches mentioned. Ralph
Not exactly true, Ralph. The Catholic Church does identify itself (correctly) as the original authentic Church of Christ, but it does not say that you are not a member of “the church” if you do not formally “belong” to The Catholic Church. All validly baptized people are members of “the church”, which is synonymous with The Catholic Church. That’s why Scripture, as you rightly pointed out, says that those who are born again are part of the Body of Christ. Born again = baptism. Body of Christ = The Church. You’re right about denominations though. There are none listed in the Bible, although some would argue that the biblical Judaizers was an attempt at an erroneous “break-off” Christian denomination, but the Church (in the form of the apostolic union) came together in council (in Jerusalem) to rectify that division, and clarify truth. Otherwise, OF COURSE there’s no denominations listed in Scripture…because The Church is NOT a denomination…denominations, as we know and understand the term, are basically breaks from the first Church in Scripture. The Catholic claim is that we ARE that first Church in Scripture, it’s just that it used terms in Scripture such as “one” and “unity” instead of “universal” or “on the whole”, which is what “Catholic” means.

All the other “churches” mentioned in Scripture are, in fact, what we would call parishes, or diocese, today. These were all part of the ONE, UNIFIED (Universal - Catholic) Church. You’re a part of that church too, Ralph (assuming you’re baptized)…you just don’t accept it. That’s the division…The Church is not cutting you off…you’re cutting yourself off.

God Bless
 
Not exactly true, Ralph. The Catholic Church does identify itself (correctly) as the original authentic Church of Christ, but it does not say that you are not a member of “the church” if you do not formally “belong” to The Catholic Church. All validly baptized people are members of “the church”, which is synonymous with The Catholic Church. That’s why Scripture, as you rightly pointed out, says that those who are born again are part of the Body of Christ. Born again = baptism. Body of Christ = The Church. You’re right about denominations though. There are none listed in the Bible, although some would argue that the biblical Judaizers was an attempt at an erroneous “break-off” Christian denomination, but the Church (in the form of the apostolic union) came together in council (in Jerusalem) to rectify that division, and clarify truth. Otherwise, OF COURSE there’s no denominations listed in Scripture…because The Church is NOT a denomination…denominations, as we know and understand the term, are basically breaks from the first Church in Scripture. The Catholic claim is that we ARE that first Church in Scripture, it’s just that it used terms in Scripture such as “one” and “unity” instead of “universal” or “on the whole”, which is what “Catholic” means.

All the other “churches” mentioned in Scripture are, in fact, what we would call parishes, or diocese, today. These were all part of the ONE, UNIFIED (Universal - Catholic) Church. You’re a part of that church too, Ralph (assuming you’re baptized)…you just don’t accept it. That’s the division…The Church is not cutting you off…you’re cutting yourself off.

God Bless
1.So all Protestants, etc. who are validly baptized are members of the first Church which is the Catholic church.
2.Christ gave all authority to Peter and his successors to decide what is true. All inspired written scripture and Tradition, are true ONLY BECAUSE Peter and his successors declare what is true.
3.We know this is true because it is written in inspired scripture and confrmed by Tradition approved by the Pope or the Pope in Council. Am I right?
 
1.So all Protestants, etc. who are validly baptized are members of the first Church which is the Catholic church.
Imperfectly so, yes.

Daniel Keeran said:
2.Christ gave all authority to Peter and his successors to decide what is true. All inspired written scripture and Tradition, are true ONLY BECAUSE Peter and his successors declare what is true.

BECAUSE the Church says or decides it’s true is not an entirely appropriate description. Rather, The Church promulgates, defines and clarifies revealed Truth given to Her in the deposit of faith from Christ. She is able to do this ONLY BECAUSE of the Spirit of God within Her.

Daniel Keeran said:
3.We know this is true because it is written in inspired scripture and confrmed by Tradition approved by the Pope or the Pope in Council. Am I right?

It seems you’re trying to make it appear the Catholic Church’s authenticity is a circular argument. But to answer this last question, we believe it is true because of many things. For most, it is an acknowledgment that the Bible-alone, without human teaching, is not in any way a logical premise for Christianity. It is a fact that all professed Christians base their faith on human teaching, supported by Scripture…and not based on Scripture-alone validating human teaching. Recorded history then picks up the baton and reveals a historical Church that was liturgical, sacramental, unified, catholic…has an unbroken apostolic lineage…and which came together to provide for me a written version of inspired teachings; teachings which She has preserved for all time. The final “proof” for my faith is in the efficacious movements and revelations of sacramental life within The Church, and a realization that to be Catholic is to be ultimately and undeniably Christ-o-centric.
 
There is no problem with Jesus being called the Rock and there is likewise no problem with him naming Peter, his vicar on earth , with the same name to demonstrate his authority. Because clearly he renamed Simon the rock (cephas in hebrew, Petros in Greek)

It is given to the Church, not to individual apostles in Matthew 18:18 and it says when 2 agree in prayer, it will be granted. Only to Peter is the ability to bind and loose an individual statement. and only Peter is given the Keys and only Peter is the rock on which Jesus will build his church.

Ed, the church fathers are our link to the past and they demonstrate the consistency of teaching to the Apostolic Age. Remember, the Canon of the Bible wasn’t finallized unitl 382…

It’s pretty presumptuous to state that Peter made a mistake in naming Matthias an apostle. Remember, at the time that Peter named Matthias, Paul wasn’t even a Christian. By the time Paul would have any claim to be an Apostle, James had already been beheaded. I wouldn’t get too excited about who is on the twelve thrones, but I would suspect it is the original 12 apostles (including Matthias, who was with Jesus from the the beginning) and not St. Paul, who I am sure has a high place in heaven, but came later and under different circumstances…

Of course Jesus chose the Apostles but he also chose Peter to administer the church on earth. He was, after all, given the keys, and in John 21, he was told to tend the sheep…

satsifaction.
Thank you Paul C for your reply per 374,( I haven’t learned how to do the line by line quotes yet) Peter the Rock Scripture has been the contention for many centuries. Scholars agree that it takes at least 2 or more Scriptures to establish a dogma and the Bible interprets its self. When a Scripture is not cleary understood, see how it’s used elsewhere. That is precicely why I presented 8 Scriptures to show how its been used in the past. Let’s examine two. From the catholic Bible Isa.44:8, “Is there any God or any Rock besides me?” NO! God=Rock, Next 1 Pet.1:8 “and a Rock (Jesus) that will make them fall”. Here Peter, himself,refers to Jesus as the Rock. You then counter, stating Peter was given authority on earth. yes but by using a contencious verse to make your point. There is no mention of Peter establishing a church in Rome, other than just being there 1Pet 5:13 Then in Acts 18:2 Claudius kicked out all the Jews out of Rome. The Bible and history reveals that there were many churches (cogregations) each seperate from each other until later, the power to control them all by Rome which caused the many schisms and the Popes battling each other for power. There’s no mention of the succession of popes in the Bible. Jesus said in Mark 16:15, go make diciples of all men . That means you and me who believe His gospel and are baptized. When I read The Oxford Dictionary of Popes, it reads like a soap opera.and these men are called the Vicar of Christ? God in the Old T. was so precise when He established Temple system of priests and He (God) made sure that Moses wrote it all down. My belief is that God did the same in New T. Everything necessary is written in the Bible. When Peter preached his first sermon 3,000 people got saved, nothing else was required. Does God have a double standard now for us? This sounds harsh! But it’s a fact love in Christ ED
 
1.So all Protestants, etc. who are validly baptized are members of the first Church which is the Catholic church.
2.Christ gave all authority to Peter and his successors to decide what is true. All inspired written scripture and Tradition, are true ONLY BECAUSE Peter and his successors declare what is true.
3.We know this is true because it is written in inspired scripture and confrmed by Tradition approved by the Pope or the Pope in Council. Am I right?
  1. Yes, technically, but they do not belong to it formally.
  2. Yes, Christ gave His authority to Peter as chief steward and the Apostles and their successors. The Holy Spirit guides the Church (those in authority/hierarchy) into all Truth.
The Bible cannot authenticate itself. Any person can claim that their book is the Word of God. Muslims claim that their Koran is and that our Bible is not. A science fiction book can start out with the words, “This is the Word of God.” So, you have to believe the “people” who make the “claims” for “their” book. (Luke 10:16, Hebrews 13:17, Hebrews 13:7)
  1. Our “Scripture” which we use today (called the Bible) is “inspired” because the Church states that it is inspired. This “Bible” has been handed down throughout the ages by this Church and its canons (OT and NT) were decided at Church Councils through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, who will always be with this one Church as promised, preventing her/the bride of Christ from teaching error. (John 16:13, John 14:26)
 
Peter the Rock Scripture has been the contention for many centuries.
If you choose to not believe that Peter is the Rock, then why did Jesus change Simon’s name to “Cephas” which means “the Rock?” He chose Simon to build His Church on because His Father revealed to Him that Simon was to be chosen and renamed Cephas. (John 1:42) Changing a person’s name changes their status just as Abram’s name was changed to Abraham since he was to become the “father of all nations.” Simon’s name was changed to Cephas because Cephas was to become the chief “spiritual father of all nations.” (1 Corinthians 4:15, Ephesians 2:19-21)

Even if you do not understand that Jesus did this, then perhaps you will acknowledge that Jesus gave only Simon/Cephas-Aramaic/Peter-Greek the “keys of the Kingdom of heaven.” This signifies a chief stewardship position over all other stewards. (Matthew 16:17-19, 1 Corinthians 4:1-2)

See Isaiah 22:15-23 for the precedent for why Jesus did this. The Chief Steward is given the keys to the King’s treasury. When he dies, this office is passed on to another steward and he becomes the Chief Steward, because someone must always have the keys to the king’s treasury. Peter shows us the first instance of Apostolic succession in Acts 1:15-26 when they choose Matthias to take the place of Judas.
 
When I read The Oxford Dictionary of Popes, it reads like a soap opera.and these men are called the Vicar of Christ?
Judas was one of Jesus’ 12 chosen apostles. Popes can betray Jesus through sin just as Judas did. Popes are infallible meaning that the Holy Spirit prevents them from teaching error in matters of faith and morals. (John 16:13, Matthew 28:20) Popes are not impeccable (incapable of wrongdoing). This means that they can and do sin and that they will go to hell if they do not repent before death. Vicar of Christ means “Christ’s representative” on earth. Moses was God’s representative on earth in the OC and the pope/chief steward is Jesus’ representative on earth in the NC. It is Jesus’ Church and if He allowed it to teach error than that would make Him and the Holy Spirit liars. We know that Jesus and the Holy Spirit cannot lie so since Jesus states that He will be with His Church until He returns at His Second Coming, we believe Him. Since He states that the Holy Spirit will guide His Church into all truth, we believe Him.
 
That is a lot of reading, however it all leads back to the fact (according to the Roman Catholic church) that if you do not belong to the Roman catholic church, then you do not belong to “the church”. As so stated by the Bible you refer to.

The Bible says that the called out ones (those who are born again) belong to the Body of Christ which is His church. Correct, His church, being the only one spanning 2000 years and counting…
There are no denominations mentioned in the Bible but there are churches mentioned. Ralph There is only ONE church mentioned in the Bible as that Church founded by Jesus Christ but there are warnings proclaimed by Jesus of those who would leave the Church and twist His words and call themselves believers and prophets… the wolves. It is not a good idea to twist the words of God and ignore the rest so you can feel comfortable in the beliefs you choose. Jesus warns of such things as well. All of these things are in the Bible.
 
Thank you Paul C for your reply per 374,( I haven’t learned how to do the line by line quotes yet) Peter the Rock Scripture has been the contention for many centuries. Scholars agree that it takes at least 2 or more Scriptures to establish a dogma and the Bible interprets its self. When a Scripture is not cleary understood, see how it’s used elsewhere. That is precicely why I presented 8 Scriptures to show how its been used in the past. Let’s examine two. From the catholic Bible Isa.44:8, “Is there any God or any Rock besides me?” NO! God=Rock, Next 1 Pet.1:8 “and a Rock (Jesus) that will make them fall”. Here Peter, himself,refers to Jesus as the Rock. You then counter, stating Peter was given authority on earth. yes but by using a contencious verse to make your point. There is no mention of Peter establishing a church in Rome, other than just being there 1Pet 5:13 Then in Acts 18:2 Claudius kicked out all the Jews out of Rome. The Bible and history reveals that there were many churches (cogregations) each seperate from each other until later, the power to control them all by Rome which caused the many schisms and the Popes battling each other for power. There’s no mention of the succession of popes in the Bible. Jesus said in Mark 16:15, go make diciples of all men . That means you and me who believe His gospel and are baptized. When I read The Oxford Dictionary of Popes, it reads like a soap opera.and these men are called the Vicar of Christ? God in the Old T. was so precise when He established Temple system of priests and He (God) made sure that Moses wrote it all down. My belief is that God did the same in New T. Everything necessary is written in the Bible. When Peter preached his first sermon 3,000 people got saved, nothing else was required. Does God have a double standard now for us? This sounds harsh! But it’s a fact love in Christ ED
First of all I notice you refer to the “Bible of the Catholic Church” for your excerpts but you do not refer to the historically recognized interpretations of those texts which I find questionable. Second if I am not mistaken some of the references you made are not of the right chapter and verse number based on what you quoted unless I am reading something wrong in your posts. Finally, I also noticed there has not been a single response (although the verses quoted below have been posted several times) replying with a credible interpretation for the following and with some of the statements you have posted I would certainly like to know how you explain the following, with credible support of course;

Ephesians CH 4; 1 I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love, 3 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: 4 **one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; ****5 ****one Lord, one faith, one baptism; ****6 **one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore, it says: “He ascended on high and took prisoners captive; he gave gifts to men.” 9 What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended into the lower (regions) of the earth? 10 The one who descended is also the one who ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things. 11 **And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, ****12 ****to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, ****13 ****until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the extent of the full stature of Christ, **14 so that we may no longer be infants, tossed by waves and swept along by every wind of teaching arising from human trickery, from their cunning in the interests of deceitful scheming. 15 Rather, **living the truth in love, we should grow in every way into him who is the head, Christ, ****16 ****from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, with the proper functioning of each part, brings about the body’s growth and builds itself up in love. **

Ephesians CH 1; 18 May the eyes of (your) hearts be enlightened, that you may know what is the hope that belongs to his call, what are the riches of glory in his inheritance among the holy ones, 19 and what is the surpassing greatness of his power for us who believe, in accord with the exercise of his great might, 20 which he worked in Christ, raising him from the dead and seating him at his right hand in the heavens, 21 far above every principality, authority, power, and dominion, and every name that is named not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And he put all things beneath his feet **and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way. **

When you explain these I would be happy to provide all those verses that point to all the warnings that Jesus and the Apostles proclaimed against the wolves and deceitful who would attract many from the True Church.
 
Hi SHW, Thank you for your reply, but I have a problem with your response. The Catholic church ( I’m not trying to be critical) claims to be the sole authority per Mat 16:18 but the same authority was given to all the apostles in Mat 18:18. Then in Gal. 2:8 “Paul states,” For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostles to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles. Then in Eph.2:19, God’s household (church) built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.” Throughout the whole New T. it speaks of churches, plural. In Rev. 1:20 It speaks, of the leaders of the seven churches and the Roman Catholic is not among them. That’s the end of Bible. Also somewhere in the New T. I read, it states the people (born again) believers are the church not one organization. Aren’t these valid questions for me to ask? But let’s get back to “How Are we saved” Love in Christ ED
Ed-

Don’t get too caught up in the singular/plural thing. Someone might say, “I am a member of the Presbyterian Church, and there are five Presbyterian Churches here in town.” One Church, lots of local bodies.

Next, Jesus gave similar authority to the other apostles, but only Peter was called Rock, and only Peter received the keys. Here are my thoughts on this:

Peter – The Rock and the Keeper of the Keys

"When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:13-19)
  1. Peter’s understanding that Jesus was the Son of God did not come from working it out on his own. Instead, God the Father infused this revelation into Peter’s mind thus imprinting His seal of approval upon this humble fisherman. Jesus recognized that Simon had already been anointed by His Father in this way and declared, “Blessed are you.” The Father had blessed Simon with knowledge of the Son.
  2. Jesus gave him the name, “Kepha”, an Aramaic word that means “rock”. In the original, the passage would read, “You are kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church.” Jesus also announces the establishment of His Church, and clearly delineates Kepha as its leader. Although Jesus spoke Aramaic, the New Testament was written in Greek, and “Kepha” would have been translated into the Greek words for “rock” which are “petra” or “petros”. “Petra” is the feminine form of the masculine word, “petros”. Petros is more suitable for a man. Therefore, from “petros” we derive the English name, “Peter”. For us modern readers then, Jesus’ pronouncement reads, “You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church.” What is it about Peter’s character that caused Jesus to compare him to something as solid as rock? Isn’t this the same Peter who Jesus called “Satan” just a few verses later? (cf. Mt 16:23) Isn’t this the same Peter who would deny the Lord three times after his arrest? (cf. Lk 22:34) Surely this unstable character is anything but solid rock upon which a Church could be built; yet, Jesus sees something deeper in Peter’s character, and His choice would be vindicated when Peter ultimately received a martyr’s crown via crucifixion.
  3. The Church to be built was not of human origin. Jesus did not say, “You are Peter, and upon this rock you must build a church.” He said, “I will build my church.” Inaugurated by the Father, built by the Son and led by the Holy Spirit, the Church is a human institution of divine origin.
  4. For this reason, “the gates of Hell will not overcome” the Church, and for over 2,000 years the Church, lead by the Apostolic Successors of Peter, has faithfully borne witness to the gospel.
(cont.)
 
  1. Jesus gives to Peter “the keys of the kingdom of heaven”. This alludes to the prophecy of Isaiah that reads, "In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah. I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.” (Isaiah 22:22) In ancient times, a king might choose a second in command or prime minister who literally wore a large key as a symbol of his office and who spoke with the authority of the king. Jesus gives Peter the authority to speak in His name and extends his authority beyond the earthly realm when he gives Peter the “keys to the kingdom of heaven.”
  2. Finally, Jesus reveals the infallible nature of the Church when he declares, “whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." What does this passage mean? There are two possible interpretations. First, if God reciprocates the binding and loosing of Church on earth with an identical binding or loosing in heaven, then the binding and loosing done on earth must of necessity be free from all error. If this were not so, God would have put himself in the impossible situation of affirming that which is not true. A second interpretation would be that the authority of the church is to carry out the will and decisions of God upon earth as they have been established in heaven. This is in perfect accord with the way Jesus instructed us to pray: “Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” (Matthew 6:10). Thus, the Church must either be prevented from teaching error in order that God may ratify its decisions in heaven or the Church must be proclaiming here below those things that are already true in heaven. Either way, the decisions and actions of the Church can be seen to be infallible with regard to matters of faith and morals. Anything less would make Jesus a liar for He also declared, “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth” (John 16:13) and “I am with you always till the end of the world.” (Matthew 28:20)
 
Prodical Son 1, On post 364, I quoted eight Scriptures concerning that God (Jesus) is the Rock including Peter himself states so, what am I to do cut them out of my Bible or ignore them?
Ed-

You seem confused about the use of metaphors in the NT…perhaps this will help.

Matthew 16:18 – Peter the Rock
Understanding the Use of Metaphor in the New Testament

Matthew 16:18-20 (NIV)
18
And I tell you that you are Peter,a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

a] Peter means rock.

Many non-Catholics object to the idea that Peter was the rock upon which Jesus promised to build the Church, and they offer various alternative interpretations of the rock as being Jesus himself, Peter’s confession of faith, and the curious hybrid Peter and his confession. To support their denial of Jesus’ establishment of Peter as the head of the Church, non-Catholics frequently cite other scripture passages in which Jesus is called the “chief cornerstone” and the apostles collectively being described as foundation stones. These arguments are based upon a misunderstanding of the use of metaphors within the pages of scripture. Author Stephen Ray, himself a former Evangelical and convert to Catholicism, addressed this problem in his book, Upon This Rock:

“In this metaphorical description, Jesus himself could not be the foundation, because in this illustration he presents himself as the builder. The following is very important. In Scripture Jesus is variously depicted as the foundation (1 Cor. 3:11), the builder (Mt. 16:18), the cornerstone (Acts 4:11), and the temple itself (Rev. 21:22). We also see the apostles and/or believers as the foundation (Eph. 2:20, Rev. 21:14), the builders (1 Cor. 3:10), the stones, lithos, not petra (1 Pet. 2:5), the building (1 Cor. 3:9), and the temple (Eph. 2:21). Many illustrative are used to explain various aspects of the Church. One cannot simply substitute one descriptive figure of speech for another in any one illustration thereby mixing metaphors. It does great violence to the textual illustration itself and is a good example of roughshod “proof-texting”, wrongly “dividing the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15). The Bible does not set up a dichotomy—either Jesus or Peter; rather, it presents us with both Jesus and Peter as foundation stones. Jesus is establishing the man who will be the focal point of unity within the Church, the foundation. He who builds upon sand has a structure that crumbles (Mt. 7:24-27). Jesus builds his Church upon the rock of his choice, and, by his protection, the Church has stood the test of time. The powers of hell have failed to destroy or corrupt her” (Stephen Ray, Upon this Rock, [San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1999], 36.)

In this same book, Ray also cites Protestant George Salmon, author of The Infallibility of the Church which he wrote to undermine the teachings of the Catholic Church. On the matter of metaphorical usage, Salmon wrote at length:

“It is undoubtedly the doctrine of Scripture that Christ is the only foundation [of the Church]: “other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Cor. 3:11). Yet we must remember that the same metaphor may be used to illustrate different truths, and so, according to circumstances, may have different significations. The same Paul who has called Christ the only foundation, tells his Ephesian converts (2:20):—“Ye are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone.” And in like manner we read (Rev. 21:14):—“The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the names of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb.” How is it that there can be no other foundation but Christ, and yet that the Apostles are spoken of as foundations? Plainly, because the metaphor is used with different applications. Christ alone is that foundation, from being joined to which the whole building of the Church derives its unity and stability, and gains strength to defy all the assaults of hell. But, in the same manner as any human institution is said to be founded by those men to whom it owes its origin, so we may call those men the foundation of the Church whom God honoured by using them as His instruments in the establishment of it; who were themselves laid as the first living stones in that holy temple, and on whom the other stones of that temple were laid; for it was on their testimony that others received the truth, so that our faith rests on theirs; and (humanly speaking) it is because they believed that we believe. So, again, in like manner, we are forbidden to call anyone on earth our Father, “for one is our Father which is in heaven.” And yet, in another sense, Paul did not scruple to call himself the spiritual father of those whom he had begotten in the Gospel. You see, then, that the fact that Christ is called the rock, and that on Him the Church is built, is no hindrance to Peter’s also being, in a different sense, called rock, and being said to be the foundation of the Church; so that I consider there is no ground for the fear entertained by some, in ancient and in modern times, that, by applying the words personally to Peter, we should infringe on the honour due to Christ alone.” (George Salmon, The Infallibility of the Church [London: John Murray, 1914], 338-339).
 
Your putting much faith in the Peter Rock dogma, while the very first thing Peter did, after Jesus ascended to heaven was to make a “mistake”. He called a meeting to choose Matthias, with Paul that makes 13 apostles. Jesus in Mat19:28 states there will be twelve thrones, Rev 21:14 with twelve apostles names on them. Jesus the head of the church, He chooses the apostles not Peter. These are valid questions. If you don’t know any of them, at least tell me so. Love in Christ ED
Ed-

I’m surprised that you are suggesting that Jesus was such a terrible builder of His Church that He could not prevent such a huge blunder as the election of Matthias when God really wanted Paul instead - especially since scripture itself names more than twelve apostles.

In addition to the original twelve, scripture mentions Matthias, Paul, Barnabas, Andronicus and Junias, Apollos (possibly), Silas and Timothy.

Acts 1:26 – Matthias
26Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

Note that the Holy Spirit did not inspire Luke to qualify the election of Matthias in any way.

**Acts 14:14 – **Paul and Barnabas
But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd,

Gee, Barnabas gets named first here so there is no doubt that the author is designating him to be an apostle, is there?

**Romans 16:7 – **Andronicus and Junias
Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

Andronicus and Junias are outstanding among the apostles. Wow. They must have been something special.

2 Corinthians 11:5-6 – Apollos
5But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those “super-apostles.” 6I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge.

A clear reference to Apollos (cf. 1 Cor. 1)

1 Thessalonians 1:1 – Silas and Timothy
1Paul, Silas and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace and peace to you.

1 Thessalonians 2:6-7
As apostles of Christ we (Paul, Silas and Timothy) could have been a burden to you, 7but we were gentle among you, like a mother caring for her little children.

These two verses suggest that Paul considered Silas and Timothy to be apostles.
 
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