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EdOsiecki
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PS1 Rev,17. It describes The Mother of Prostitutes. Who’s being described here?
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EdOsiecki
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Paul C You ask do I see how it works? NO! Can you explain it so I can understand what your talking about. ED
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paul_c
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Golfjack,
Do you realize how heavily you are leaning on your own personal interpretation of Revelation when you make these statements? You know, revelations was written in part to show those being persecuted that Christ would win in the end. However, trying to interpret the meanings of apocolytic literature prior to the events happening is a fool’s errand. I liken it to the Jew’s view of the prophetic books. Prior to Jesus’s resurrection, the prevailing understanding of the Jewish experts was that the Messiah would be a military leader who would bring the Jewish nation back to power. They never understood the suffering servant passages because of this preconcieved notion and they absolutely never understood that the Kingdom of God was not a physical political entity but a spritual one. In the same way, it will not be until after the second coming that the truth of revelations will become clear.
You, and many other evangelicals believe in a Rapture, where the saved will be sucked up into heaven because you misinterpret the statement’s of Jesus that one will go to heaven and the other will be left behind. Isn’t it just as likely that the point he was making was that some would go to heaven while others would not? You also believe that the Pope is the anti-christ because you misread a comment in Revelations about the whore of Babylon that was most likely meant to discuss the Roman emperor who was persecuting the Christians when Revelation was written.
As for following the Pope, he is God’s representative on earth and following him is tantamount to following Christ. The wonder to me is how people think they can personally interpret scriptures better than the Catholic Church, which wrote them and has consistently interpretted them the same way for 2000 years.
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paul_c
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Okay. sorry I wasn’t clear. let me try again.
You seem to be trying to find a formula for salvation that relies on following a discreet set of rules. For instance, its okay if I steal $1 but once I go over $50, I’m condemned to hell. However, we know from scripture that we don’t get to heaven by following a set of written laws or meeting some mathematical salvation formula… Afterall, that was the weakness of the Scribes and pharisees, who tithed down to the smallest of spices but did not love in their hearts. In fact, we know further that we will ultimately be judged on how we love both God and neighbor. And love is synomous with Charity: doing things for others without expecting anything in return. So everything is judged by love. As St. Paul stated in 1Cor 13, If I have faith enough to move mountains but do not have Love, I am nothing.
So stop worrying about what the cut off for a mortal sin is. Its inconsequential because God doesn’t judge that way. If you truly love God, you will hate all sin, no matter how trivial and you will seek to do God’s will at all times. The further you go on this path, the more you will understand Strive for that… If you are meant for this, you will eventually be compelled to focus on all those things that sanctify you…Don’t underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit to lead you to where you need to be…
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EdOsiecki
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SHW. In a couple of my past posts, someone of you called the Holy Bible the "do it yourself " book. And now I learn that you call God’s Scriptures a “fairytale” . Should I then rip out of my Bible 1 Cor.15:5 "But I am telling this strange and wonderful secret: we shall not all die, but we shall all be given new bodies! “at the last trumpet Then,1Thes 4;17,'Then we who are still alive and remain on earth will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with Him forever.” You may be one of those martyrs that you mention above, but for me Rev 3:10 tells me,“Because you have patiently obeyed me despite the persecution, therefore I will protect you from the time of Great Tribulation and temptation, which will come upon the world to test everyone alive.” Look I am comming soon! Love in Christ ED
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EdOsiecki
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Paul C thanks for your reply. But really, I’m very much aware of what you preach above about love etc. What I’m trying to figure out, is how do you come up with venial sins and mortal sins, when I can’t find anything of the sort in the Bible . James 2:10 tells me any sin is sin. If you break one of God’s laws you have broken them all. When Peter preached his first sermon 3,000 people got saved without going to any priest, eventough, as you say Peter was commissioned to confess sins. None of the apostles confessed people of their sins. It doesn’t make sense to me has to why people have to do it now. ED
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EdOsiecki
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PaulC The last book of the Bible is not Revelations but the Revelation of Jesus. When you say “apocaluptic literature prior to the events happening is a fool’s errand”. I’d be careful because you might be that fool. What you just said is that God doesn’t know how all this will end. PaulC altough the rapture is mentioned in the book of Revelation, most born again believers get the rapture information from 1Cor 15:51, it states we shall not all die but in a twinkling of the eye we shall receive new heavenly bodies. When that happens then Jesus is coming to get us (born again) believers 1Thes 4:17 and we shall meet Him in the clouds and be with Him forever! When I see how the One World govt. is being formed at the present time, why shouldn’t I believe the rest of the book of Revelation. Besides Rev 1:3 states, Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it. I’m being blessed. Does your priest ever read from it at your church? He should. ED
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Daniel_Keeran
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The word of God is “living and active…judging…”
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Canto
Guest
So although some claim the Bible is our sole rule of faith, it doesn’t tell us what books should be included.
The Holy Spirit told me and you and the guy down the road that there are 27 books?
Is the same true of the OT becuase in Judaism and Christianity there are varying canons.
Did the Holy Spirit tell Martin Luter for example, because he spoke of certain NT books been of straw, having nothing evangelical about them, some books he was quiet scathing of.
In the early Church there were many varied canons
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Erchomai_Kyrios
Guest
When I come to questions like these I think of the example of 1 sinner whom I know went to be with the Lord. He happened to be a thief.
Luke:
What did the thief do to earn heaven?
In Christ, Erchomai Kyrios
Question:
What did the thief do to earn heaven?
In Christ, Erchomai Kyrios
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Canto
Guest
Can we earn our way into heaven?
Was the theif baptised - the new covenant began after the resurrection and not before
Did the thief do any good works - God can make exceptions for those who cannot perform the required work but wish to do so, but the thief did rebuke the bad thief in front of the crowd who jeered Jesus and told him to save himself. Do you not fear God he said. The thief acknowledges that they were punished justly. Perhaps sometime beforehand the thief had repented to God. The thief said that Jesus had done nothing wrong, so perhaps he was already aware of Jesus.
The thief says ‘remember me when you come into your kingdom’ - it seems to me like he had some prior knowledge, Jesus was mostly silent throughout the crucifixion.
"The thief might have known about the kingdom prior to the cross. This lowly thief understood Jesus’ mission and purpose which even many of the apostles had a difficult time understanding (Lk 24:25-26). Hence, everything in this story points to this thief having been prepared for this final moment with Jesus. Finally he hears Jesus say, “Today you will be with me in paradise.”… Taking the thief’s statement as an admission of guilt, Jesus’ invitation into paradise implies the forgiveness that accompanies repentance. The man acts, and Jesus responds. The thief, not Jesus, initiates the conversation… The thief apparently already had faith in God as demonstrated by his “fear of God” which he expressed to the other thief. He now had to put the faith into action by reaching out to Jesus in perfect contrition, however limited he was in doing so. Had he not reached out, he would have been condemned just like the unrepentant thief who remained silent.” quote from the Catholic Apologetics Study Bible – Gospel of Matthew
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paul_c
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Ed,
I don’t know why this is such a hard concept for you to grasp. It corresponds to the difference between a a misdemeanor and a capital crime. Do you really believe that you would be condemned to hell for blowing through a stop sign? Unless of course, you did it specifically to spite God. And you see, there is the rub. Intent matters so that’s why there is no discreet list of mortal vs venial sins. Its just more complex than that and we can’t adequately judge the hearts of men like God can. But we can sense when we oursleves have sinned and when we do, we need to confess those sins in all contrition, ask foregiveness and make up for those sins through penance.
As for Pentecost. They did go to a priest, Peter, and the other Apostles, but this was for baptism. We are initially saved by baptism without confession through God’s mercy. Once saved, however, we are held to a different standard. If we fail to love, we need to confess our sins to get back in the state of Grace. And how do you state so unequivocally that none of the Apostles heard confessions? They were given that authority, why do you believe that they didn’t use it? Remember, confessions are private affairs. You would not expect to read an account of one in scriptures.
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davidv
Guest
That’s because the Word of God is Jesus, not just the Bible.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
The Doctrine of Purgatory Proved from Scripture
2 Maccabees 12:42-46
Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; or if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.
Even those Christians who deny that Maccabees 1 & 2 belong are inspired and belong in the canon of the Old Testament must admit that this passage reveals that the Jews believed that that the living may pray for the dead and make sacrifices for them in order that they might be freed from the sins they had committed. It was with this cultural understanding as a backdrop that the following New Testament verses come into focus.
Matthew 12:32
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come**.**
Does this not imply that some sins can be forgiven in the age to come? Obviously, there is no sin to forgive in heaven, and sin is not forgiven in hell because it’s too late and judgment is permanent. Therefore, the “world to come” where sin can still be forgiven must be a third, distinct place.
Luke 12:42-48
The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. "That servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”
Notice that there are not two but three categories of servants in this parable: 1) the “wise and faithful manager” who is rewarded (heaven); 2) the unfaithful servant who knows his master’s will but does not do it and who is “cut to pieces and assigned a place with the unbelievers (hell); and 3) the one “who does not know and does things deserving punishment.” This final servant is beaten with “few blows” (purgatory).
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
1 Peter 1:7
These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Confession and Forgiveness of Sin via the Priesthood Proved from Scripture
Some people object to the Sacrament of Reconciliation (commonly called “Confession”) on the basis that they only need to confess their sins directly to God rather than to a priest. Is this perspective correct? Let’s see what the Bible has to say.
Leviticus 5:5-6
5 " 'When anyone is guilty in any of these ways, he must confess in what way he has sinned 6 and, as a penalty for the sin he has committed, he must bring to the LORD a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.
Notice that the Word of God says, “the priest shall make atonement.” Clearly in the Old Testament, the priesthood existed to offer sacrifices and make atonement for the sins committed by the people. Does this idea continue in the New Testament?
Hebrews 10:1
1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves.
Here the author of Hebrews instructs us that the Old Testament prefigures and foreshadows New Testament truths; the Old is revealed more fully in the New. This seems to suggest that the role of the priest (ie, making atonement) as described in Leviticus should reveal something to us about the New Testament priesthood. So, what does the New Testament teach us about confession of sin?
1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
We should confess our sins, and God will forgive us, but do we confess our sins to God alone? No!
James 5:13-16
13 Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. 14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.
Here the word of God tells us to call the elders (the Greek word is presbuteroi, or “presbyter”, from which the English word “priest” is derived). So, in this context, James is telling us to send for the priests who will pray over someone who is sick, and if he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Recalling the passage from Leviticus above, we see there is a strong parallel between the priests of the Old Testament who made atonement for sin and the presbyters or priests of the New Testament to whom we confess sins for forgiveness. But this sounds like blasphemy! Can men really forgive sins? This same question is asked in the New Testament.
Mark 2:5-7
5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” 6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7"Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
Who can forgive sins but God alone? This question is often asked by those who seek to deny the sacrament of confession. However, note that this question is asked by the scribes who did not accept Jesus. Those who quote this passage find themselves on the side of those who rejected the Messiah. There’s more to the story, however; let’s consider the same incident from the book of Matthew.
Matthew 9:1-7
1 Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.” 3 At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!” 4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins…” Then he said to the paralytic, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” 7And the man got up and went home. 8When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.
The Bible teaches that God had given the authority to forgive sins “to men”. Note that this is not “to a man” but “to men” – plural. So, it is not only Jesus who has authority to forgive sins – “men” have this authority, also. This sounds like a “hard teaching”…is there confirmation of this in the Bible?
(cont.)
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Randy_Carson
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John 20:21-23
21 Again Jesus said,"Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
How did God send Jesus into the world? With the authority to forgive sins as we saw in Matthew 9:6. How does Jesus send the Apostles? In the same way that the Father had sent Him…with the authority to forgive sins as we have just seen in John 20:23. How could the Apostles obey the commandment of Jesus to forgive sins unless they heard these sins confessed?
Finally, we find that the Apostle Paul himself forgave the sins of others acting in persona Christi or “in the person of Christ” – just as the Catholic Church teaches concerning the sacrament of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 2:10
10To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; (KJV)
And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ. (Douay Rheims)
Can we go directly to God for the forgiveness of our sins? Of course, but the scriptures just presented suggest that the normative means of forgiveness is by confession to a priest, and while it is true that only God can forgive sins, the Bible teaches that He has chosen to do so through the ordained priesthood and the Sacrament of Reconciliation that He Himself instituted.
21 Again Jesus said,"Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
How did God send Jesus into the world? With the authority to forgive sins as we saw in Matthew 9:6. How does Jesus send the Apostles? In the same way that the Father had sent Him…with the authority to forgive sins as we have just seen in John 20:23. How could the Apostles obey the commandment of Jesus to forgive sins unless they heard these sins confessed?
Finally, we find that the Apostle Paul himself forgave the sins of others acting in persona Christi or “in the person of Christ” – just as the Catholic Church teaches concerning the sacrament of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 2:10
10To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; (KJV)
And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ. (Douay Rheims)
Can we go directly to God for the forgiveness of our sins? Of course, but the scriptures just presented suggest that the normative means of forgiveness is by confession to a priest, and while it is true that only God can forgive sins, the Bible teaches that He has chosen to do so through the ordained priesthood and the Sacrament of Reconciliation that He Himself instituted.
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Randy_Carson
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The Immaculate Conception of Mary Proved from Scripture
When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.
The traditional translation, “full of grace,” is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of “highly favored daughter.” Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for “daughter”). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning “to fill or endow with grace.” Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence.
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Randy_Carson
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Sin that is Mortal Proved from Scripture
1 John 5:16-17
16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
Common sense tells us that there is a big difference between stealing a paperclip from a colleague’s desk and committing genocide. Yet the Protestant pretends that they are equally heinous and equally deserving of eternal damnation. This creates a false piety. Instead of making all sins more serious, it actually trivializes the most grievous sins. After all “In for a penny, in for a pound.” If I am damned anyway for trivia, I might as well be damned for something really juicy. That’s human nature!
Protestants also do not realize how unbiblical their idea that all sin is equally heinous is. We have the quotation from St. John given above which should have been proof enough, but there is more. If all sins are equally bad then in the OT the penalty for every sin would have been the same: DEATH. Instead, the Old Testament describes several ways of atoning for sins and making things right that demonstrate there are different degrees of sin. Only the most heinous sins such as murder or apostasy require the death penalty.
So once again, by using purely man-made standards, the Protestant makes void the word of God.
John 19:11
11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above. For this reason the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin.”
If there is a “greater” sin, then there must be a “lesser” sin, also.
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ralphy
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You know something Ed, sometimes it’s like beating a dead horse and try to make him go as to try to show some people by the word of God that there will be a “rapture” and that those who are born again Christians will be called home to be with the Lord befor the great tribulation, what a shame if they miss this part of scripture. Then again I believe that they are not being taught scripture, which is the fault of those people who are running the Roman catholic church, from the highest rank to the lowest position. As far as the position of the pope is concerned, God has no respect of persons, position or rank makes no difference to Him, for “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” and all need to be saved. Ralph
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Randy_Carson
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Ed-
Could you clarify something for me here?
Are you asking whether Catholic priests ever read from the Bible at Mass or whether they read from the Book of Revelation specifically?
Thanks.
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