How are we saved?

[Randy_Carson]

Hey forum contributors, allow me to restate how and on what basis that I got saved as follows:It’s so simple to get saved, that’s why it’s so hard for some to understand. I got saved on May 4, 1974, I called out to God to save me as per Rom.10:13 “Anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved”. also Rev 3:20. By doing so, God came into my life, I was “born again” spiritually, as required per John 3:5. and the angels rejoiced in heaven over my salvation Lk 15:10. Then two things took place, (1) I then read the Bible in order to grow spiritually which taught me God’s Biblical ways. (2) For months, God took me as far back into my life as I could remember. Every time I recalled a sin, right there on the spot, I confessed it to God. I was being sanctified. At times, I was required to make an apology or a restitution. Sometime later, I was led by the spirit to go to a Non-denominational prayer meeting where spirit filled people laid hands and prayed for me to receive the Holy Spirit as per Acts 8:17. Later, I was water re-baptized per Mat 3:11 as John states,” I baptize you with water for REPENTANCE “. (not for washing any of my sins as I was once taught). Sins can only be atoned for by the shedding of BLOOD Heb.9:22) (C) I believed that salvation is by God’s grace and not by any of my works so that I could not boast, it’s a free gift from God Eph.2:8-9. (D) I was baptized to shown my out-ward sign of repentance per Mat,3:11.(E) I received the Holy Spirit per Acts 8:17. I Now do good works (not for salvation) but to show my repentance as per Mat.3:7-8 And by doing so, it now counts for my rewards in heaven Mat.16:27 (F) I now know that I’m saved because there’s been a great change in my life per 2 Cor 15:17. (G) Most importantly I now know for certain, by following God’s above plan for salvation, that I’m assured of going to heaven per 1 John 5:13. " I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life”. We are saved by faith in Jesus alone. The only replies I got when I posted this testimony, was How can a baby call on the Lord. I responded, Jesus said the Kingdom of God belongs to the children. Then somone asked, If a baby is saved per Jesus’ statement, do they loose their salvation when they become of age? My question to such silly responses is, “Is that the best that you can come up with”? Randy, PaulC, ProdicalSon1 am I saved?

Ed-

Can you show us the clothing you wore when you were washed in Jesus’ blood? Id love to see those precious stains.

Or was the forgiveness won by Christ applied in some other manner?

As for the “silly question”, I notice that those who believe in OSAS cannot provide a coherent answer for it.

Finally, please explain the meaning of the following verses…I have posted them before, but I don’t think you have ever addressed them.

Baptism Saves

Mark 16:16
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Romans 6:3-4
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

1 Peter 3:18-22
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Baptism Washes Away Sin

Acts 2:38-39
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

At Pentecost, Peter told the crowd to “be baptized…for the forgiveness of…sins.” After that, “you will receive…the Holy Spirit”. Once again, we see the elements of Water and Spirit…just as Ezekiel prophesied. Note too, that this promise is for “you and your children” – a clear endorsement of infant baptism.

Acts 22:16
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. (Acts 22:16)

---

 

[Randy_Carson]

PaulC, This is ED, If you insist, allow me to quote our church Father, Irenaeus, a pupil of Polycarp, who was a pupil of John, he understood the number “666” per Rev.13:18 Thusly:
The Greek word “Lateinos” L,30: A,1: T,300: E,5: I.10: N.50: O,70: S,200. These total 666. “Lateinos” means “Latin Kingdom” Papal Rome made Latin its official language. And it still is. Rome’s canons, missals, prayers,decrees, bulls, blessings, cursings, are all in LATIN. He believed called a “MAN” meaning a set of men or an Institution headed by a man or a set of men. Now no ofense I’m only quoting a church Father. God Bless ED

Ed-

Polycarp was referring to the Roman empire not the Church which happened to be at Rome.

However, the Bible says that we are to call no man father…how is it that you, a Bible Christian, have just called Irenaeus your “church Father”?

That aside, I am delighted to hear that you have such respect for Irenaeus, but I must ask why is it that your Church doesn’t believe and teach the same things as your Church Father, Irenaeus, who wrote the following:

Baptism of Infants
He [Jesus] came to save all through himself – all, I say, who through him are reborn in God; infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Apostolic Succession
"3The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome], they handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus. Paul makes mention of this Linus in the epistle to Timothy [2 Tim. 4:21]. To him succeeded Anencletus, and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was chosen for the episcopate. He had seen the blessed apostles and was acquainted with them. It might be said that he still heard the echoes of the preaching of the apostles and had their traditions before his eyes. And not only he, for there were many still remaining who had been instructed by the apostles. In the time of Clement, no small dissension having arisen among the brethren in Corinth, the Church in Rome sent a very strong letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace and renewing their faith. . . To this Clement, Evaristus succeeded. . . and now, in the twelfth place after the apostles, the lot of the episcopate [of Rome] has fallen to Eleutherus. In this order, and by the teaching of the apostles handed down in the Church, the preaching of the truth has come down to us.

The True Church is the Catholic Church
The Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).

Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist
[Christ] has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own Blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own Body, from which he gives increase to our bodies."

 

[Randy_Carson]

Randy claims that water baptism washes away sins.

Actually, it’s the Bible that says this, not me, and you have never responded to my frequent postings of the verses which state precisely this.

I’m still waiting.

 

[ralphy]

2Th 2:15 (2:14) Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle.

Your interpretation that you receive privately is jammed with non-scriptural, man-made tradition based on yours, or someone’s, ideas…like sola scriptura and private interpretation of scriptures, while rejecting other traditions clearly spoken about in scriptures.

I have all I need in the Bible. I am satisfied with what God has left for us to follow and I do not need what the Roman catholic church has added to satisfy their own desires , which is their method of controling their members. It is the Bible that I will be judged by, not tradition. Ralph

 

[Canto]

I have all I need in the Bible. I am satisfied with what God has left for us to follow and I do not need what the Roman catholic church has added to satisfy their own desires , which is their method of controling their members. It is the Bible that I will be judged by, not tradition. Ralph

St Paul tells us to hold onto the written and oral word y/n?
You hold onto the written word
Do you hold onto the oral word?
If not, why not?

If the Holy Spirit can protect the written word from error, can’t He protect the oral word from error too???

How can you be sure that all the right books are in the New Testament? I know it feels good when you read it but so does a Lorenz Hart lyric. You may claim the Holy Spirit tells you so, but some throughout history, no doubt claiming the Holy Spirit, have scorned certain NT books or believed in the exclusion of some or inclusion of others.

What did Christians do in the millenium and a half before the invention of the printing press?

 

[paul_c]

My church is called Living Word Family Church, and has about 100 members. We do have tennets of faith. Back at you: How do I know that your church is the true church? Your Church with its teaching just don’t line up with what God has said in His Word. This is the only way I can judge it,by the Word of God.

   Peace,    Golfjack

Golfjack,
Would you mind sharing why you chose this particular church? Why makes this particular one the keeper of the True Faith?

 

[twb1621]

I have all I need in the Bible. I am satisfied with what God has left for us to follow and I do not need what the Roman catholic church has added to satisfy their own desires , which is their method of controling their members. It is the Bible that I will be judged by, not tradition. Ralph

Then what you are saying is you will be judged by what the CC has provided it’s faithful, taken and adapted by such men as Luther and Calvin, states within it’s text that it is Not the total teachings of Jesus in itself, and you will hope you are right in refusing the full correct teachings because you don’t want to. Perhaps you need to re-read the posts you never answered in the past. If you could refute those credibly, you could teach us our wrongs. But if you can’t and your beliefs remain in conflict with the very Bible you claim to follow, where does thant leave you? Certainly not where you would wish to be, that is scriptural. Scripture doesn’t conflict with itself. Only people who choose to make it what they want.

 

[paul_c]

Hey forum contributors, allow me to restate how and on what basis that I got saved as follows:It’s so simple to get saved, that’s why it’s so hard for some to understand. I got saved on May 4, 1974, I called out to God to save me as per Rom.10:13 “Anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved”. also Rev 3:20. By doing so, God came into my life, I was “born again” spiritually, as required per John 3:5. and the angels rejoiced in heaven over my salvation Lk 15:10. Then two things took place, (1) I then read the Bible in order to grow spiritually which taught me God’s Biblical ways. (2) For months, God took me as far back into my life as I could remember. Every time I recalled a sin, right there on the spot, I confessed it to God. I was being sanctified. At times, I was required to make an apology or a restitution. Sometime later, I was led by the spirit to go to a Non-denominational prayer meeting where spirit filled people laid hands and prayed for me to receive the Holy Spirit as per Acts 8:17. Later, I was water re-baptized per Mat 3:11 as John states,” I baptize you with water for REPENTANCE “. (not for washing any of my sins as I was once taught). Sins can only be atoned for by the shedding of BLOOD Heb.9:22) (C) I believed that salvation is by God’s grace and not by any of my works so that I could not boast, it’s a free gift from God Eph.2:8-9. (D) I was baptized to shown my out-ward sign of repentance per Mat,3:11.(E) I received the Holy Spirit per Acts 8:17. I Now do good works (not for salvation) but to show my repentance as per Mat.3:7-8 And by doing so, it now counts for my rewards in heaven Mat.16:27 (F) I now know that I’m saved because there’s been a great change in my life per 2 Cor 15:17. (G) Most importantly I now know for certain, by following God’s above plan for salvation, that I’m assured of going to heaven per 1 John 5:13. " I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life”. We are saved by faith in Jesus alone. The only replies I got when I posted this testimony, was How can a baby call on the Lord. I responded, Jesus said the Kingdom of God belongs to the children. Then somone asked, If a baby is saved per Jesus’ statement, do they loose their salvation when they become of age? My question to such silly responses is, “Is that the best that you can come up with”? Randy, PaulC, ProdicalSon1 am I saved?

Ed,
Thank you for sharing your story. It is commendable that you seek the lord, read the bible, were baptized, confessed your sins and strive to do good works for the love of God. This is completely consistent with what Catholics teach is required for salvation.
But I am sorry to say, that none of us can tell you whether you will ultimately go to heaven. We are not God and are in no position to judge the state of your soul. Furthermore, your journey has not yet ended, so who can say where it will take you?

I would like to make a few points to you to help you on your journey toward holiness. I hope you will take it as positive feedback.

Life is a journey toward or away from God and every decision is a test to see whether you will choose to do Gods will and move closer to him or whether you will deny that will and move away. Consider everything you do as either sancifying or condemning and act accordingly. Do not worry about whether you will ultimately get to heaven. Do your best completely out of love and trust in God’s mercy and love to deliver you. I know that most Protestants I come into contact with want assurance of salvation and that the Catholic teaching that there is no assurance until death is a stumbling block. But that doesn’t change the truth. If you die in the state of Grace, you will go to heaven. so work on that.

Consider also, that by staying outside the Catholic church, you deny yourself access to the sacraments, which are sanctifying, particularly the eucharist and the sacrament of reconciliation. Perhaps you don’t think you need this, but maybe when you are reading the new testament, you will contemplate John 6: 51-54
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?” Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
Be open to the teachings of the Church. God willing, you will come to understand their wisdom. Your core beliefs are consistent with what the Church teaches already. Most of your differences are actually the result of a desire to stay outside the church. Once that animosity disappears, you will see the full truth…

God Bless

 

[tukfryer]

My apologies if I have misunderstood you.

My PRIMARY reason for addressing your post was to make sure that everyone understands that Catholics do not teach that Apostolic Succession is at work in baptism or what-have-you.

The laying on of hands for ordination to the episcopacy is VERY different from a Bishop baptizing or confirming. Different sacraments - different intent - but the same physical methodology.

I will simply say we are all born into the same Spirit,
Are you implying that Paul was indoctrinated into Apostleship / Apostolic Succession by Ananias.

 

[tukfryer]

Ed-

Can you show us the clothing you wore when you were washed in Jesus’ blood? Id love to see those precious stains.

Or was the forgiveness won by Christ applied in some other manner?

As for the “silly question”, I notice that those who believe in OSAS cannot provide a coherent answer for it.

Finally, please explain the meaning of the following verses…I have posted them before, but I don’t think you have ever addressed them.

Baptism Saves

Mark 16:16
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Romans 6:3-4
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

1 Peter 3:18-22
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Baptism Washes Away Sin

Acts 2:38-39
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

At Pentecost, Peter told the crowd to “be baptized…for the forgiveness of…sins.” After that, “you will receive…the Holy Spirit”. Once again, we see the elements of Water and Spirit…just as Ezekiel prophesied. Note too, that this promise is for “you and your children” – a clear endorsement of infant baptism.

Acts 22:16
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. (Acts 22:16)

---

I dont mean to interfere with your question to Ed but I have provided an explanation here
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5273654&postcount=638
There are two baptisms just as Peter points out and John the Baptist also makes clear.

“I baptize you with water unto repentance, but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear. He shall baptize you with the holy Ghost and with fire.”

At Pentecost, Peter told the crowd to “be baptized…for the forgiveness of…sins.” After that, “you will receive…the Holy Spirit”.
Here Peter is referring to Jesus baptism not water. Johns baptism was for the repentance not forgiveness. Only Jesus forgives sin. John did not forgive but preached turning away from sin.

As John administered the one, he promised that Christ would administer the other.
I have to leave I’ll close with this thought. Is water baptism the only acceptable means of demonstrating repentance?
“I baptize you with water unto repentance, but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear. He shall baptize you with the holy Ghost and with fire.”

John 14:15 Conditions needed to receive the HS
“If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I have all I need in the Bible. I am satisfied with what God has left for us to follow and I do not need what the Roman catholic church has added to satisfy their own desires , which is their method of controling their members. It is the Bible that I will be judged by, not tradition. Ralph

Can you show us in scriptures that all one needs is the Bible?

I try to understand why one says they do not need a Church, but I cannot understand one’s necessity to demean a Church they do not understand. The Catholic Church has not added anything and certainly for “their” own desires. That is nothing but unsubstantiated anti-Catholic rhetoric, thrown in the discussion in what appears to be an ad hominem. You see, when you make snide comments such as that, without any sources whatsoever, it reveals alot about you and not in a positive way, in my opinion.

Living the word of God is a tradition, living by sola scritpura is living a man-made tradition and privately interpreting scriptures for yourself is a man-made tradition, whether you can understand that or not. The irony in your statements is, those traditions you follow are not supported by scriptures and therefore are added to scriptures.

 

[golfjack]

You know, some of the things that most Catholic’s believe have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flresh. What I just stated is found in God’s Word.

Again, something that was not addressed, and I believe is the main problem with Catholic theology, is the fact we are spirit, soul, and body. ( 1 Thess. 5:23). The New Birth is the rebirth of the human spirit. The real man is spirit. The spirit operates through the soul ( man’s intellect, emotions, and will). And the soul in turn operates through the physical body.
Peace, Golfjack

 

[davidv]

You know, some of the things that most Catholic’s believe have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flresh. What I just stated is found in God’s Word.

Again, something that was not addressed, and I believe is the main problem with Catholic theology, is the fact we are spirit, soul, and body. ( 1 Thess. 5:23). The New Birth is the rebirth of the human spirit. The real man is spirit. The spirit operates through the soul ( man’s intellect, emotions, and will). And the soul in turn operates through the physical body.

Peace, Golfjack

What in Catholic teaching denies the dual nature of humankind?

If I were you, I’d stop burning straq-men. It doesn’t look very good on your resume`.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

I have all I need in the Bible. I am satisfied with what God has left for us to follow and I do not need what the Roman catholic church has added to satisfy their own desires , which is their method of controling their members. It is the Bible that I will be judged by, not tradition. Ralph

The Bible, the very thing, that you claim is all you need? Unfortunately for your point of view, history and everything considered an acceptable source make the distinct point that the Bible comes from The Catholic Church Tradition.

Do you celebrate Christmas and Easter? Do you celebrate Easter when the Catholic Church declares it (you do, you just may not know it)? Can you describe yourself as Christian?

All these things come to us, you and I both, though the Tradition of the Catholic Church by way of God and all grace flow from that same Tradition by way of the Holy Spirit as professed by Christ, like it or not.

A simple thank you will do…

 

[paul_c]

You know, some of the things that most Catholic’s believe have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flresh. What I just stated is found in God’s Word.

Again, something that was not addressed, and I believe is the main problem with Catholic theology, is the fact we are spirit, soul, and body. ( 1 Thess. 5:23). The New Birth is the rebirth of the human spirit. The real man is spirit. The spirit operates through the soul ( man’s intellect, emotions, and will). And the soul in turn operates through the physical body.

     Peace,   Golfjack

Golfjack,
Stop trying to tell us what Catholic’s believe and let us tell YOU what we believe. Frankly, that’s why we are here. To give you Catholic Answers. Take advantage of that to learn what the Catholic Church really stands for. What you have been lead to believe about Catholicism is highly inaccurate.

Ask us questions and let us tell you the ture position of the church and then we can debate the varacity of the position if you like. It does us no good to debate against positions we do not hold.

 

[twb1621]

quote]

It should be pointed out that John baptized in water for the purposes of repentance but not for the cleansing of sin as is the power of the Holy Spirit. When Jesus Baptized He used water and says you must be baptized with Water and the Holy spirit but the word “and” doesn not refer to two seperate cerimonies. One must be Baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ with Water in order to be forgiven sin and receiving of the Holy Spirit. "The baptismal water is consecrated by a prayer of epiclesis. Through his Son (in the name of Jesus Christ) the power of the Holy Spirit may be sent upon the water, so that those who will be baptized in it may be “born of water and the Spirit.” CC

Matthew CH3; 11 I am baptizing you with water, for repentance, but the one who is coming after me is mightier than I. I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire. 8 (fire referring to the purification)

ACTS CH22; 14 Then he said, ‘The God of our ancestors designated you to know his will, to see the Righteous One, and to hear the sound of his voice; 15 for you will be his witness 2 before all to what you have seen and heard. 16 Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name.’

ACTS CH 16; 30 then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you and your household will be saved.” 32 So they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to everyone in his house. 33 He took them in at that hour of the night and bathed their wounds; then he and all his family were baptized at once. 34 He brought them up into his house and provided a meal and with his household rejoiced at having come to faith in God.

ACTS CH2: 36 Therefore let the whole house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified." 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, “What are we to do, my brothers?” 38 Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, 7 every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.

John CH 3; 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. 6 What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I told you, ‘You must be born from above.’

John CH 3; 21 But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God. 22 10 After this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptizing. 23 John was also baptizing in Aenon near Salim, 11 because there was an abundance of water there, and people came to be baptized…,

continued…

 

[twb1621]

continued from previous post.

Romans CH6; 1 1 What then shall we say? Shall we persist in sin that grace may abound? Of course not! 2 How can we who died to sin yet live in it? 3 Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life. 5 For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be in slavery to sin. 7 For a dead person has been absolved from sin. 8 If, then, we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, raised from the dead, dies no more; death no longer has power over him. 10 As to his death, he died to sin once and for all; as to his life, he lives for God. 11 Consequently, you too must think of yourselves as (being) dead to sin and living for God in Christ Jesus. 12 2 Therefore, sin must not reign over your mortal bodies so that you obey their desires. 13 And do not present the parts of your bodies to sin as weapons for wickedness, but present yourselves to God as raised from the dead to life and the parts of your bodies to God as weapons for righteousness. 14 For sin is not to have any power over you, since you are not under the law but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? Of course not! 16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, although you were once slaves of sin, you have become obedient from the heart to the pattern of teaching to which you were entrusted. 3 18 Freed from sin, you have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your nature. For just as you presented the parts of your bodies as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness for lawless ness, so now present them as slaves to righteousness for sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness. 4 21 But what profit did you get then from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been freed from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit that you have leads to sanctification, 5 and its end is eternal life.

 

[twb1621]

You know, some of the things that most Catholic’s believe have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flresh. What I just stated is found in God’s Word.

Again, something that was not addressed, and I believe is the main problem with Catholic theology, is the fact we are spirit, soul, and body. ( 1 Thess. 5:23). The New Birth is the rebirth of the human spirit. The real man is spirit. The spirit operates through the soul ( man’s intellect, emotions, and will). And the soul in turn operates through the physical body.

Peace, Golfjack

That was a rather blanket statement ridiculing the faithful body of the Catholic Church…
In response I will offer you the facts at hand. The Bible as you should know is a Catholic compilation of the writings of the Apostles teachings passed on first to the CC through Apostolic Succession before being compiled and later known as the Bible. Canonization then followed also by the CC who incidently determined what was to be considered the inspired word you refer to and the written Teaching instrument containing the inspired word of God was presented as a major accompanying factor of said Teachings of Jesus Christ. Notice I said accompanying, not sole and only source. Sometime later (1500 years or so) a few ordinary men, Luther and calvin to name a couple, decided to alter that compilation and some of the text interpretations to follow what they believed and what you now refer to as The Bible but in your version while criticising the CC. Below is the response to the ONE sentance you referred to… Followed by the Bibles testamant to ONE TRUE CHURCH FOUNDED BY ONE JESUS CHRIST.

Excerpt from the Historic Interpretation: 1 Thess. 5:23

“…may both soul and body be preserved blameless for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” In either case, Paul is not offering an anthropological or philosophical analysis of human nature. Rather, he looks to the wholeness of what may be called the supernatural and natural aspects of a person’s service of God."

Ephesians CH 4; 1 I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love, 3 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: 4 one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore, it says: “He ascended on high and took prisoners captive; he gave gifts to men.” 9 What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended into the lower (regions) of the earth? 10 The one who descended is also the one who ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things. 11 **And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, **13 until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the extent of the full stature of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be infants, tossed by waves and swept along by every wind of teaching arising from human trickery, from their cunning in the interests of deceitful scheming. 15 Rather, **living the truth in love, we should grow in every way into him who is the head, Christ, **16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, with the proper functioning of each part, brings about the body’s growth and builds itself up in love.

Ephesians CH 1; 18 May the eyes of (your) hearts be enlightened, that you may know what is the hope that belongs to his call, what are the riches of glory in his inheritance among the holy ones, 19 and what is the surpassing greatness of his power for us who believe, in accord with the exercise of his great might, 20 which he worked in Christ, raising him from the dead and seating him at his right hand in the heavens, 21 far above every principality, authority, power, and dominion, and every name that is named not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And he put all things beneath his feet **and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way. **

No protestant faith follows the complete teachings of the Church founded by Christ and if they did they would not be protestant. If we base our answer on scripture, unless their beliefs where the same as those teachings of the True Church founded by Christ, no IMO they certainly would not be “one Body” in the complete sense of teachings and beliefs. And I agree with the article you referred to completely. “…until we all Attain to the Unity of Faith” would mean gather in the one true Faith or belief system.

Who do you blanketly criticize and what Faith do you practice?

 

[Daniel_Keeran]

INFANT BAPTISM?​

“He [Jesus] came to save all through himself – all, I say, who through him are reborn in God; infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age” (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

This is the first possible reference to infant baptism. I doubt Irenaeus intends this to be such a reference. It was spoken in the ECF’s that Jesus sanctified a thing by participating in it, e.g. he sanctified water when he was baptized in the Jordan. So here, Irenaeus says all stages of human development are sanctified because Jesus participated in them and also to become a perfect teacher “in respect to relative age.” So a person of any stage of development, when old enough to obey from the heart, will be able to be born again. This is the likely meaning since Irenaeus makes no reference to infant baptism in any of his writing.

Add to this the fact that the **earliest explicit reference **to infant baptism is in 200 AD from Tertullian who opposes the practice. Since Tertullian was a traditionalist, he would not have opposed a practice that was generally accepted and known to be from the apostles, so **this is proof that infant baptism was an innovation **and not a biblical practice.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I have all I need in the Bible. I am satisfied with what God has left for us to follow and I do not need what the Roman catholic church has added to satisfy their own desires , which is their method of controling their members. It is the Bible that I will be judged by, not tradition. Ralph

Ralph-

Where does the Bible tell you to believe and act according to the beliefs you have just described above?

When I read the Bible, I see that the it points you to an infallible Church, but you reject my interpretation of scripture.

Therefore, please show me where the Bible tells you specifically that it is to be the sole rule of faith for the believer?