How can a loving God create then condemn a homosexual being?

[Salibi]

People do not “choose” their sexuality. While psychological and scientific research has still not ascertained what exactly causes a person to be gay, one thing we can say for certain is that people do not consciously choose to be gay. Whether God made them that way, or whether genetics and/or upraising and environment had something to do with it, we have yet to know.

 

[Senyorico]

Which it isn’t, and isn’t how natural works.

Why is it not? If they’re biological make-up is set to have that feelings then wouldn’t they’re purpose change? Moreover, why is it essential to highlight the importance on living to your function, if I wouldn’t then it would be harmful? But a chair’s function is for seating but still can be used for numerous things and yet is not harmful and adds more help.

Just because you’re born with a feeling doesn’t mean you can act on it

Then why can a perfect being create someone t have that feeling which he prohibits to act on?

 

[FrancisFan43]

Is that why God commanded Moses to write Leviticus 20:13? Because God just felt like creating people just to be condemed?

And those people who live in blatant disobedience are no more catholic than people who are pro-baby murder, or those in the clergy that abuse alter boys.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

What they try to point out is not only about marriage, for example some if not Catholic schools wouldn’t allow individuals to cross dress. If their gender expression is somehow natural since they are “born that way” then why discriminate them?

As has been pointed out, your use of “natural” is different from the use of the word in theology.

Also, as has already been pointed out, while the inclination may not be sinful. The actions of the individual still may be.

There is a further complication when you are talking about a school. At least in the US, the courts have recognized that schools have a responsibility for the moral instruction of children. Even more so a Catholic school has a responsibility to instruct their students in Catholic morals and values. The state cannot infringe that.

 

[Salibi]

that why God commanded Moses to write Leviticus 20:13? Because God just felt like creating people just to be condemed?

Theology-wise, God does not condemn homosexuals for being homosexual. God only condemns homosexuals who engage in homosexual behaviour, so the issue of whether homosexuality is a choice or not is one that has absolutely no bearing on Catholic teaching. The choice here is the choice of acting on homosexual inclinations, not the choice of having them.

I would like to refer you to this post of mine, the content of which is sourced from the Catechism. If you desire further information, contact a priest or read the Catechism.

And those people who live in blatant disobedience are no more catholic

Not up to decide whether homosexual Catholics are Catholic.

 

[Fauken]

Why is it not?

Because science does not deal with morality. Why should terms in science govern morality?

If they’re biological make-up is set to have that feelings then wouldn’t they’re purpose change?

No. Sperm is still meant to fertilize an egg. That does not change.

Moreover, why is it essential to highlight the importance on living to your function, if I wouldn’t then it would be harmful? But a chair’s function is for seating but still can be used for numerous things and yet is not harmful and adds more help.

Your chair can still however be used for seating. A comparison to same-sex couples would be sawing off all but one leg of the chair. It can’t be used for what it was designed for.

Then why can a perfect being create someone t have that feeling which he prohibits to act on?

That perfect being didn’t give them those feelings.

 

[Salibi]

Yes they do.

Produce the science to prove so. Bonus points if you can do so without decrying a liberal/gay conspiracy within the scientific community.

Because if you want to go further, pedophiles cant help their gravely sinful sexual attraction twords children and ergo must be tolerated like the homosexuals.

sigh

This is my last reply to you, I’m afraid. I simply cannot abide people who think the way you do. Now, I would like you to explain how you can possibly believe that a sexual attraction to children is in any way the same thing as sexual attraction to a mature adult of the same gender.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Then why can a perfect being create someone t have that feeling which he prohibits to act on?

From a Catholic perspective, whatever inclinations we have that are not ordered toward their natural purpose are the result of the fall and the introduction of sin into the world. It is not that God actively wills for us to suffer.

The Catholic Christian believes that God’s grace is sufficient to help us live a life of virtue and progress in holiness.

In this thread, we are only talking about homosexual sex acts, but there are many many other inclinations people have that they are only able to shoulder by the grace of God. Those inclinations are the crosses we all must pick up so that we may follow Christ.

Please understand, I’m not trying to minimize the tremendous trial that many homosexual person may have as they work out their salvation. The bottom line is that the keys to living a christian life of virtue are the same no matter how difficult the trial.

 

[Senyorico]

That perfect being didn’t give them those feelings

But according to the study I have quoted earlier, their biological make-up says they do.

Because science does not deal with morality

I agree with this but my problem is their genes influenced their homosexuality thus differentiates them from heterosexuals.

 

[Wesrock]

But why would the act be a sin if it would be consensual and “natural” for them since (assuming) they are born to have that attraction?

It’s not natural in the sense that it’s a failure of their nature to have developed and manifested properly. The disposition is not their fault, but as rational beings we are in general to overcome dispositions towards such acts contrary to our human nature, whether lust or gluttony or anything else. In terms of our sexuality we’re all called to chastity.

 

[Senyorico]

whatever inclinations we have that are not ordered toward their natural purpose are the result of the fall and the introduction of sin into the world

Then why would a loving God penalize individuals for something they did not do, i.e. eating the forbidden fruit. Why pass it? Why not just penalize Adam & Eve then spare the other generations who are not responsible for that sin

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Then why would a loving God penalize individuals for something they did not do

We are not penalized for something we didn’t do. Rather, we exist in a world where sin exists and we cannot help but be impacted by that fact.

 

[goout]

mrsdizzyd:

whatever inclinations we have that are not ordered toward their natural purpose are the result of the fall and the introduction of sin into the world

Then why would a loving God penalize individuals for something they did not do, i.e. eating the forbidden fruit. Why pass it? Why not just penalize Adam & Eve then spare the other generations who are not responsible for that sin

Because…love.
Do you want to love and be loved? If you desire to have love and give love, you must acknowledge that you are inextricably connected to all of humanity.
And that communion takes up the whole of humanity, good and bad. Compassion means “to suffer with”. In love we don’t choose what we like about others and deny the rest.
And that is the profound meaning of the cross: Christ in his love for us descends all the way to the bottom, not denying our sin but taking it up and redeeming it for us, with us.

We participate with Adam and Eve because…love.

 

[TheLittleLady]

We are all born with attractions and urges. We are all called to chastity. Even old married people are to live chastity according to their state in life.

I’d suggest starting with the Catechism, then go on to read the documents and references from the footnotes: Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 2 ARTICLE 6 (The bold part I added, because it is often overlooked in thise conversations)

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[FrancisFan43]

You cant even prove the science that says they can’t chose their own sexuality. Yet you are more than happy to ignore thousands of conversion stories of people that chose life instead of the sin that cries out to heaven. You are more than happy to censor someone that literally quotes scripture because they disagree with you.

Transgender women show high rates of sex-change regret

One doctor has performed seven reversal surgeries on transgender women in the past five years.

www.newsweek.com

If people cant help what sexuality they have, than how can people regret decideing to be apart of that life?

Celebrities Who Left a Gay Lifestyle | Joseph Nicolosi

Explore this list of celebrities who left a gay lifestyle. Explore their journeys, experiences, and learn how they did it.

www.josephnicolosi.com

How could it be possible for people to leave their sin that cries out to heaven if they had no choice over it?

SPOILER ALERT!
because it is a choice! God doesn’t make people into sinners, people make people into sinners.

 

[TheLittleLady]

This is contrary to the Church’s teaching. They Church does not teach that people choose to be gay. The Church, in her wisdom. People choose to actions, not attractions.

CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.

 

[TheLittleLady]

You are changing the topic. Homosexuality and gender dysphoria are not the same thing.

 

[goout]

The Church does not claim knowledge of the scientific genesis of homosexuality. It is unknown.
And judging by the testimony of many, it is as natural for them as heterosexuality is for me. (doesn’t mean it’s rightly ordered)
Can they abstain? Of course. Just like I abstain from things with mixed results.
To be burdened with something as overwhelming as a sexual drive and have it be disordered is a serious cross, something to be treated with pastoral sensitivity.

 

[goout]

We are all born with attractions and urges. We are all called to chastity. Even old married people are to live chastity according to their state in life.

Yea. Being in that older state now gives me new appreciation for the struggles of gay folks to live chastely. It is immensely difficult. But worth pursuing.

 

[phil3]

I wonder how many times this question has been asked on CAF?