How Can Atheists Remain Atheists?

[josie_L]

Incorrect…many, many people once had faith and lost it…some willingly, others didn’t want to loose it, but they did anyway.

I was speaking to a woman recently who was in a crisis of faith. She REALLY didn’t want to loose faith in God and was crying out for him to help her. She knew that the bible says that faith is a gift from god…she reminded god of this in prayer…she begged and implored him…with no other thoughts, except to be at god’s bosom again…well, if there is a god, he left her high and dry…she’s agnostic now.

But then again there are those in a similar situation who have regained their faith later in life, i.e., this women’s journey is not over. I can’t say for sure why God “didn’t” answer her right away but maybe there is a lesson to be learnt (so God is answering her prayers but not in the way she expects or understands). It’s not for nothing that we say “God works in mysterious ways”.

 

[anode]

But then again there are those in a similar situation who have regained their faith later in life, i.e., this women’s journey is not over. I can’t say for sure why God “didn’t” answer her right away but maybe there is a lesson to be learnt (so God is answering her prayers but not in the way she expects or understands). It’s not for nothing that we say “God works in mysterious ways”.

win, win–right? or…lose,lose. There is something wrong with an argument where you can argue it both ways—or neither.

 

[anode]

Do atheists believe in the intangibles? Such as beauty, hope, tenderness, mercy, kindness and love? Because these are the manifestations of God. Faith is a gift received from the Holy Spirit. Once you receive it there is no turning back.

From St. Augustine:
"There are those who think that the Christian religion is what we should smile at rather than hold fast, for this reason, that, in it, not what may be seen, is shown, but men are commanded faith of things which are not seen.

We therefore, that we may refute these, who seem to themselves through prudence to be unwilling to believe what they cannot see, although we are not able to show unto human sight those divine things which we believe, yet do show unto human minds that even those things which are not seen are to be believed."

do you think that Augustine might have written more clearly in the original —Latin?

I don’t think that we have to have God expropriate the rare human virtue. Humans practice hope, tenderness, love, mercy and kindness all the time–(beauty is subjective)–on their own. If they practiced it, trying to gain God’s favor, they wouldn’t be virtuous, would they?

 

[SteveVH]

I submit that only your perception that it’s manifestations from god.

Incorrect…many, many people once had faith and lost it…some willingly, others didn’t want to loose it, but they did anyway.

I was speaking to a woman recently who was in a crisis of faith. She REALLY didn’t want to loose faith in God and was crying out for him to help her. She knew that the bible says that faith is a gift from god…she reminded god of this in prayer…she begged and implored him…with no other thoughts, except to be at god’s bosom again…well, if there is a god, he left her high and dry…she’s agnostic now.
This is a VERY similar story and is the story of many, many good, (once) godfearing people…
The fact is that when the bible says that faith it a gift from god, it contraditcs itself on the teaching that anyone and everyone can get to heaven.

If the gift of faith is given at god’s discression, then no matter how hard some people try (and I saw how hard they do) they will never get to heaven. Yeah, I know that you’ll tell me that her time was not god’s time and she should have waited.
However, god (supposedly) knows her heart and knows that if he doesn’t give her the faith she craves at that specific time, she will turn her back on him.
If he knows this and he still does nothing…then he has no right to send her to hell on judgement day.
It was his choice to share his gift with her at her crucial moment…he chose not to let her get into heaven and he’ll punish her for his choice too…funny how god works, eh?

So…even if god was real and he gave me some faith…what would make me more special than the woman begging him for the gift of faith and him not responding to her?
It’s like the cool kids circle at school…no matter how hard some kids try, they’ll never get in.

No thanks…

Can I ask a couple of questions? Why are you on a religious forum? I’m trying to imagine going to an Atheist site. What would you talk about?

 

[josie_L]

win, win–right? or…lose,lose. There is something wrong with an argument where you can argue it both ways—or neither.

Do you deny the fact that there are ex-atheists that have regained their Christian faith? If the answer to that question is no, then my statement is valid, i.e., that women’s journey is not over and so there is always hope she will regain her faith (and God does answer prayers just not always in the way you would expect or even right away). God bless.

 

[SteveVH]

II was speaking to a woman recently who was in a crisis of faith. She REALLY didn’t want to loose faith in God and was crying out for him to help her. She knew that the bible says that faith is a gift from god…she reminded god of this in prayer…she begged and implored him…with no other thoughts, except to be at god’s bosom again…well, if there is a god, he left her high and dry…she’s agnostic now.
This is a VERY similar story and is the story of many, many good, (once) godfearing people…
The fact is that when the bible says that faith it a gift from god, it contraditcs itself on the teaching that anyone and everyone can get to heaven.

If the gift of faith is given at god’s discression, then no matter how hard some people try (and I saw how hard they do) they will never get to heaven. Yeah, I know that you’ll tell me that her time was not god’s time and she should have waited.
However, god (supposedly) knows her heart and knows that if he doesn’t give her the faith she craves at that specific time, she will turn her back on him.
If he knows this and he still does nothing…then he has no right to send her to hell on judgement day.
It was his choice to share his gift with her at her crucial moment…he chose not to let her get into heaven and he’ll punish her for his choice too…funny how god works, eh?

So…even if god was real and he gave me some faith…what would make me more special than the woman begging him for the gift of faith and him not responding to her?
It’s like the cool kids circle at school…no matter how hard some kids try, they’ll never get in.

No thanks…

God doesn’t pass out the gift of faith like brown eyes and blue eyes. The gift is available to everyone, but not everyone wishes to receive it. Faith is not always easy and some decide its too hard. It has to be exercised, like an athlete. You may be athletically gifted but unless you practice your gift is useless. I know of no one who has pursued God and has not found Him on some level. I also know those who do not wish to pursue Him because it would mean they would have to change their lives.

If you want to bring it to a scientific level I’d like to ask you something. Would you not agree, in the coming into being of all things, that everything is caused by something else?
Do you not also agree then that there must, at some point, be an uncaused cause? I’m certain you have dealt with this question before, it comes from Thomas Aquinas. I’d be interested in your answer.

 

[SHW]

Umm, no you don’t…otherwise you wouldn’t have defaulted back to the word “nothing” In my post I stated that we don’t say “nothing” we state that “we don’t know yet.”

I was not speaking of you personally. Most Atheists have already made up their minds that there is no God. The definition of Atheist:

Atheist: a person who believes that there is no God.

Incorrect.
By the evidence at hand, I have concluded that god doesn’t exist, yes. But that’s with the evidence we have available to us. However, if definitive evidence were to present itself, I, like most atheists, would be willing to change. However, even with all the millions of claims out there, no proof has been able to stand up to even the most basic scientific tests…

I don’t think that most Atheists would be willing to change because they will not accept any “evidence” shown to them. Even if it be a direct intervention from God (He speaks to them directly), they would still discount this event as “hallucination.”

Claims are nothing but hypothesis without lack of evidence…

This does not make sense. No need to clarify. Atheism does not make sense either.

There have been many miracles done by God to show that He exists (He even sent His own Son to earth to redeem mankind), but Atheists always find a “reason” to disbelieve. Atheists have a problem with “pride.” They do not want to believe nor do they choose to believe that there is a higher power or a more intelligent being than themselves. This is why they are called “Atheists.”

Free will choice. It’s best to use it wisely. Eternity awaits. Heaven or Hell. Only two choices. It makes no difference whether an Atheist believes in them or not; he still will have to go to one or the other. By the time that he “sees” that they both exist (after death), it will be too late for him. 2 Thessalonians 1:8, James 2:19 Good and evil. God vs.Satan. God wins.

Satan loves Atheists (in a diabolical manner, of course), because they will belong to him for eternity.

The grace of God brought you to this forum. However, He forces no person to believe in Him.

The downside is this: If persons do not choose to believe in Him and obey Him, and as a reward, live with Him in heaven for eternity; then the only other alternative is hellfire for eternity. Eternal Light or eternal darkness. God is Light and rules in the light of heaven. Revelation 21:4 Satan rules in the darkness of hell. Matthew 13:49-50, 1 Peter 5:8, Revelation 20:10

 

[SHW]

I submit that only your perception that it’s manifestations from god.

Incorrect…many, many people once had faith and lost it…some willingly, others didn’t want to loose it, but they did anyway.

I was speaking to a woman recently who was in a crisis of faith. She REALLY didn’t want to loose faith in God and was crying out for him to help her. She knew that the bible says that faith is a gift from god…she reminded god of this in prayer…she begged and implored him…with no other thoughts, except to be at god’s bosom again…well, if there is a god, he left her high and dry…she’s agnostic now.
This is a VERY similar story and is the story of many, many good, (once) godfearing people…
The fact is that when the bible says that faith it a gift from god, it contraditcs itself on the teaching that anyone and everyone can get to heaven.

If the gift of faith is given at god’s discression, then no matter how hard some people try (and I saw how hard they do) they will never get to heaven. Yeah, I know that you’ll tell me that her time was not god’s time and she should have waited.
However, god (supposedly) knows her heart and knows that if he doesn’t give her the faith she craves at that specific time, she will turn her back on him.
If he knows this and he still does nothing…then he has no right to send her to hell on judgement day.
It was his choice to share his gift with her at her crucial moment…he chose not to let her get into heaven and he’ll punish her for his choice too…funny how god works, eh?

So…even if god was real and he gave me some faith…what would make me more special than the woman begging him for the gift of faith and him not responding to her?
It’s like the cool kids circle at school…no matter how hard some kids try, they’ll never get in.

No thanks…

These people are not God-fearing people. They do not fear God at all.
**
Why do people keep thinking that they have the “right” to “manipulate” God**, and if He does not respond to their manipulations in the manner that they desire, then they have the “right” and even “duty” to stop believing in Him? These people have no real fear of God. They should. Acts 7:32, Hebrews 10:30-31 God is not a genie in a bottle.

God expects us to obey Him. If we do, then we “get in” to heaven when we die. Simple. Acts 10:35, Hebrews 5:9

 

[AlbertBall]

Oh it’s quite clear, that you really didn’t take the time to think it through. Your answers are really kind of automatic, and I think it’s highly unfortunate that you are not yet willing to fully consider God. I am hoping and praying though that one day you’ll get to the point of thinking about it for real.

His post was very clear and 100% accurate. The reason it sounds automated is because we have repeatedly correct theists on this issue, even a lot of atheists and agnostics too. I’m amazed how many people do not understand what the word atheist actually means.

 

[AlbertBall]

Who created the **elements, gases, **etc. that were necessary for life? Who put them into motion? You say “nothing.” I say “God.” Which is more reasonable to believe? I think “God.”

The stars, thats one less gap for you

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

To answer the topic question: No.

Can’t really say what happens during the time when a person is able to still think with their last breath. Can’t say what happens during the final milliseconds when one might be experiencing a sudden death.

After death all will be revealed:

One spends eternity being with Him or one spends eternity not being with Him.

 

[SHW]

The stars, thats one less gap for you

Since I am made of dust, I like to think that I am made of stardust.

Genesis 3:19

 

[AlbertBall]

Since I am made of dust, I like to think that I am made of stardust.

Genesis 3:19

You asked a question, i answered. Not sure what your reply means.

 

[SHW]

You asked a question, i answered. Not sure what your reply means.

If the evolution theory is true, then I am made of stardust.

There are two timelines. There is the time period before mankind (Adam) received his soul. This could easily have taken billions of years and be of an evolutionary nature. And then, there is the time period after Adam received his soul (Adam’s ensoulment) which has reached about 6000 years now and this corresponds to the timeline in the Bible.

 

[SHW]

His post was very clear and 100% accurate. The reason it sounds automated is because we have repeatedly correct theists on this issue, even a lot of atheists and agnostics too. I’m amazed how many people do not understand what the word atheist actually means.

**
Atheist: a person who believes that there is no God**

This is the definition from the Webster’s New World Dictionary.

 

[SHW]

Napoleon asked him what place God had in his theory. Laplace replied that he had no need for that hypothesis. We also have no need for it, because science has been successful, and science is the best approach to solving the mysteries that remain.

I think it best to use a more practical approach:

How has science been successful in solving the problem of greed which causes wars?
How has science been successful in solving the problem of sickness and death?
How has science been successful in solving the problem of Tsunamis?
How has science been successful in solving the problem of earthquakes?
How has science been successful in solving the problem of ???

Science is the study of what already is (exists). Science can not create anything nor solve anything without using something that already exists; therefore science alone is not successful.

 

[AlbertBall]

If the evolution theory is true, then I am made of stardust.

There are two timelines. There is the time period before mankind (Adam) received his soul. This could easily have taken billions of years and be of an evolutionary nature. And then, there is the time period after Adam received his soul (Adam’s ensoulment) which has reached about 6000 years now and this corresponds to the timeline in the Bible.

Sure there is, evidence please .

 

[AlbertBall]

I think it best to use a more practical approach:

How has science been successful in solving the problem of greed which causes wars?
How has science been successful in solving the problem of sickness and death?
How has science been successful in solving the problem of Tsunamis?
How has science been successful in solving the problem of earthquakes?
How has science been successful in solving the problem of ???

Science is the study of what already is (exists). Science can not create anything nor solve anything without using something that already exists; therefore science alone is not successful.

Are you for real.

“How has science been successful in solving the problem of greed which causes wars?”

Psychology anyone?

“How has science been successful in solving the problem of sickness and death?”

Errrr, have you ever heard of a thing called medicine, hospitals??

“How has science been successful in solving the problem of Tsunamis?
How has science been successful in solving the problem of earthquakes?”

Not only is science rapidly advancing in being able to predict these events but medicine, food, technology to find an locate survivors, earthquake resistant buildings etc all ALL the product of science.

I mean honestly what on earth are you talking about?

 

[larkin31]

Are you for real.

“How has science been successful in solving the problem of greed which causes wars?”

Psychology anyone?

“How has science been successful in solving the problem of sickness and death?”

Errrr, have you ever heard of a thing called medicine, hospitals??

“How has science been successful in solving the problem of Tsunamis?
How has science been successful in solving the problem of earthquakes?”

Not only is science rapidly advancing in being able to predict these events but medicine, food, technology to find an locate survivors, earthquake resistant buildings etc all ALL the product of science.

I mean honestly what on earth are you talking about?

By “solved” I think that the person meant “eradicated.” But if he/she meant simply “understand,” then, yes, I share your shock.

 

[AlbertBall]

By “solved” I think that the person meant “eradicated.” But if he/she meant simply “understand,” then, yes, I share your shock.

I hardly think we should need to eradicate something before we can be proud of the achievements we have made toward tackling the issues. Not that you were in anyway trying to indicate that we should not be proud, i am just answering SHW if that is what he did mean.